Cracked: 5 Pro-Marijuana Arguments That Aren't Helping

[AsburySkinsFan]

well golly gee mister, I think you done did convinced everybody that pot should stay illegal

glad I came to this thread! what a breakthrough in rhetoric! phew.

Snark won't prove your case. The question was what was a good reason for making it illegal. And that's a fun question to entertain in make believeland but as it is the onus is on those who want to make legal something that is now illegal not the other way around. Unless of course out in San Fran they make the prosecution prove to the jury why crimes should still be crimes as they are convicting criminals.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 09:50 PM ----------

As Asbury just pointed out above, most people who think marijuana should be illegal use the "it's illegal currently, so therefore it should be illegal" argument. I, for one, do not like the government thinking for me.

Asbury is wrong though, it's not on the legalization movement to prove why pot should be legalized. It's on the government to prove why it should be illegal in the first place. Unless you don't care for that whole "land of the free" and "innocent until proven guilty" mumbo jumbo.

So you are going to argue that prosecutors must argue that crimes should the illegal before they can try a criminal? Odd see here I thought once a law was on the books it was up to those who want it changed to provide the valid argument for doing so. The government ALREADY proved why pot should be illegal when it was made a controlled substance. If you want it changed, it's up to you to argue effectively for its repeal...not the other way around.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 09:52 PM ----------

Is this for real?

Yes, it's for real. We apparently need to prove why speeding is illegal too, not to mention other crimes, because right now there is a whole population of oppressed people who are having their freedoms restricted by an oppressive government that won't allow them to smoke an illegal/controlled substance. Personally, I think it's hilarious that pot advocates now want to reverse how the laws are made in our nation because they can't convince the populace to side with them.

[Prosperity]

Snark won't prove your case. The question was what was a good reason for making it illegal. And that's a fun question to entertain in make believeland but as it is the onus is on those who want to make legal something that is now illegal not the other way around. Unless of course out in San Fran they make the prosecution prove to the jury why crimes should still be crimes as they are convicting criminals.

we're not talking about prosecution

we're talking about policy

to support a policy that prohibits peaceful, private conduct, through enforcement and imprisonment... without asking why, is stupid... but more than that, it is irresponsible and callous. An utter failure in citizenship.

As a side note, San Francisco doesn't prosecute marijuana cases

[fullnelson9999]

Of course Springfield is right. The best argument for the legalization of marijuana is that it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place. There's nothing wrong with it, if it's being compared to legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol.

[Springfield]

Yes, it's for real. We apparently need to prove why speeding is illegal too, not to mention other crimes, because right now there is a whole population of oppressed people who are having their freedoms restricted by an oppressive government that won't allow them to smoke an illegal/controlled substance. Personally, I think it's hilarious that pot advocates now want to reverse how the laws are made in our nation because they can't convince the populace to side with them.

Yes. Harsh but for real.

We all know why speeding is illegal and why it was made that way. I dont think that you'll get any argument over speeding being illegal or the punishments that are associated with being found guilty of speeding.

The fact remains that the criminalization of marijuana was founded on propaganda. Lies. If there was a law created based on a lie, you are damn right that I would hold it to the government to prove to me why said law was just.

My argument for why this specific law should be repealed is that it was created based on fundamental un-truths. The people who founded this law spread propaganda and lies to the American people.

Would you consider a law based on a lie to be a just law?

[AsburySkinsFan]

we're not talking about prosecution

we're talking about policy

to support a policy that prohibits peaceful, private conduct, through enforcement and imprisonment... without asking why, is stupid... but more than that, it is irresponsible and callous. An utter failure in citizenship.

As a side note, San Francisco doesn't prosecute marijuana cases

But we are talking about prosecution as prosecution is the enforcement of the laws that are already on the books. And as this issue is concerned, the case has already been made which has shaped the nation's laws to make pot illegal. To change it, it is not up to the legislators to prove why it must be illegal...that's already been done, the onus is now up to the advocates to argue why it should be legal. And they do a crappy job of it.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 10:37 PM ----------

Yes. Harsh but for real.

We all know why speeding is illegal and why it was made that way. I dont think that you'll get any argument over speeding being illegal or the punishments that are associated with being found guilty of speeding.

The fact remains that the criminalization of marijuana was founded on propaganda. Lies. If there was a law created based on a lie, you are damn right that I would hold it to the government to prove to me why said law was just.

My argument for why this specific law should be repealed is that it was created based on fundamental un-truths. The people who founded this law spread propaganda and lies to the American people.

Would you consider a law based on a lie to be a just law?

I reject your notion that the law was based on lies. So there we are.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 10:38 PM ----------

Of course Springfield is right. The best argument for the legalization of marijuana is that it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place. There's nothing wrong with it, if it's being compared to legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol.

Which is as the article stated, is not an argument for the legalization of pot, but instead an argument for the illegalization of tobacco and alcohol.

[Springfield]

I reject your notion that the law was based on lies. So there we are.

So then, tell me why marijuana was made illegal.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 10:51 PM ----------

I also want to know if you think that laws created on a lie are unjust... In general.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So then, tell me why marijuana was made illegal.

Because it leads kids to have sex. Seriously, I'd rather talk about Obama's birth certificate. It is still up to YOU to convince the country and legislators to repeal the ban, that's how it is with our laws in our country. Ya'll have been trying this in the court of public opinion for years and it's still not working.

Oh I know it's all lies...yadda yadda, but seriously we don't need another controlled substance in people's systems while they are on the roads. And don't even try the whole, "make it illegal to drive while high" line, because at last check we're still trying to get the whole drunk driving thing under control. And sure, you'll stay home and smoke your dope while chilling out and watching Silent Bob and Jay, but others won't.

All of that is in the end irrelevant in that in order to get things your way, YOU must still provide the argument for repeal....not the other way around.

[Prosperity]

But we are talking about prosecution as prosecution is the enforcement of the laws that are already on the books. And as this issue is concerned, the case has already been made which has shaped the nation's laws to make pot illegal. To change it, it is not up to the legislators to prove why it must be illegal...that's already been done, the onus is now up to the advocates to argue why it should be legal. And they do a crappy job of it.

what are you rambling about?

I'm not asking the legislators, I'm asking you. It's your choice as a citizen to decide which policies to support.

Frankly, marijuana legalization is more of a matter of waiting out the baby boomers. Hell, it's already decriminalized (and defacto legal) in California. So apparently, they are doing a pretty good job. I'm surprised you are ignorant of their arguments.

[fullnelson9999]

Which is as the article stated, is not an argument for the legalization of pot, but instead an argument for the illegalization of tobacco and alcohol.

It's an opinion piece, not fact. I see it the other way around. Let people do what they want.

It may be his argument for the illegalization of tobacco and alcohol, but I don't buy it.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

So then, tell me why marijuana was made illegal.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 10:51 PM ----------

I also want to know if you think that laws created on a lie are unjust... In general.

Marijuana, along with most other drugs, was made illegal based on lies...or at the very least extremely stupid thought processes.

Weed was the drug of the Chinese men and people were convinced it would make them rape white women. Cocaine was going to make black men immune to bullets. Police in SC literally upped the caliber of their guns to combat coked up black guys way back in the day.

The list goes on. I took Sociology of Drugs in college and it was probably the coolest class I've ever taken. It may not have technically been lies, but I'm pretty sure some people were aware that their 'findings' were complete and total bull****.

[ACW]

At least 1 lie was that the AMA supported the law.

[The 12th Commandment]

A few of you sound pretty pompous in the absolute certainty of your judgments. I enjoy the medical benefits of MJ and don't miss the constipation (bowel wise not the common mental variety displayed in this thread) that came with the Oxy's. I figure if it's helping me (which it is without question - you'll have to take my word that it helps MS), screw the rest of you that don't like it.

That said, you'll note I didn't use any of Cracked's smart alecky reasoning. It's Cracked for Christ's sake, not something anyone should be basing their argument on. For or against.

[mardi gras skin]

C'mon. That article was laugh out loud funny! And it was funny because I've heard those sad arguments used. Whatever your legitimate reasons for or against pot, how can you not like that article?

[AsburySkinsFan]

C'mon. That article was laugh out loud funny! And it was funny because I've heard those sad arguments used. Whatever your legitimate reasons for or against pot, how can you not like that article?

So true, so true. IMO the reason they don't like the article is because the comedy hits a little too close to home.

[The 12th Commandment]

They (me) liked the article and Cracked in general, it's one of my daily destinations. A number of normally reasonable people on the board ^ are laughing at those pitiful arguments while deciding they're apparently representative. Maybe they are in other states, don't know except from reading. But if it's helping one person who is in misery then it's worth letting the rest "get away with it" without worry.

[AsburySkinsFan]

They (me) liked the article and Cracked in general, it's one of my daily destinations. A number of normally reasonable people on the board ^ are laughing at those pitiful arguments while deciding they're apparently representative. Maybe they are in other states, don't know except from reading. But if it's helping one person who is in misery then it's worth letting the rest "get away with it" without worry.

Oh so now you're going the whole "they won't even let us use it for medical reasons" emotional argument? Sorry, but medicinal pot is legal. Your argument is on the other hand not an argument for medicinal use, but instead "If it's helping one person who is in misery then the rest of us should have the right to get high". And that's non sequitur.

[Thiebear]

I treat it like everything else. Don't care what you do in you're living room. Don't care what you do in your bedroom.

I don't want to see hammered people outside, I don't want to see people making out.

As long as your actions do not harm another, have at it.

life is much easier if your just consistent.

[mardi gras skin]

KOA, you know how annoying many evangelical Christians are? They're so serious about winning you over to their way of thinking that they come off boorish and offensive? As a Christian who believes strongly that following Christ is a good way to live, those bible thumpers tick me off because they totally destroy the message with their tactics.

Many pot advocates, some in this thread, come across sounding eerily similar to those guys. You'd do well to distance yourself from them because they are totally wrecking your message.

I say this as someone not inclined to agree with pot legalization but not close minded to legitimate reasons for legalization either...In other words, I am your target audience. "YOU PEOPLE who think that marijuana should be ILLEGAL need to prove WHY IT SHOULD BE" isn't doing anything to win me over.

[The 12th Commandment]

Oh so now you're going the whole "they won't even let us use it for medical reasons" emotional argument? Sorry, but medicinal pot is legal. Your argument is on the other hand not an argument for medicinal use, but instead "If it's helping one person who is in misery then the rest of us should have the right to get high". And that's non sequitur.

I'm on of those "one persons" and have my card and I'm legal. It truly helps me in with some really nasty side effects that the oxy's didn't. Plus if I don't have it for a day, it's not the end of the world. I hope I never again feel the panic that sets in when you're dependent on pain meds and you run out. What can I do, other than tell you categorically that it helps BIG TIME and it would help a lot of others if there weren't a stigma against it? When did you become so cynical?

---------- Post added July-10th-2011 at 05:39 AM ----------

KOA, you know how annoying many evangelical Christians are? They're so serious about winning you over to their way of thinking that they come off boorish and offensive? As a Christian who believes strongly that following Christ is a good way to live, those bible thumpers tick me off because they totally destroy the message with their tactics.

Many pot advocates, some in this thread, come across sounding eerily similar to those guys. You'd do well to distance yourself from them because they are totally wrecking your message. I say this as someone not inclined to agree with pot legalization but not close minded to legitimate reasons for legalization either... In other words, I am your target audience.

I totally understand it, I agree with your premise here. It is counter productive to have Seth Rogen :pfft: as your spokesperson. My goal is to articulately and convincingly present an argument bases on my personal anecdotal experiences that there is a valid argument for medical marijuana use.

Keast, I'm going to a wedding in Durango this week. How does CO deal with medical cards from other states?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'm on of those "one persons" and have my card and I'm legal. It truly helps me in with some really nasty side effects that the oxy's didn't. Plus if I don't have it for a day, it's not the end of the world. I hope I never again feel the panic that sets in when you're dependent on pain meds and you run out. What can I do, other than tell you categorically that it helps BIG TIME and it would help a lot of others if there weren't a stigma against it? When did you become so cynical?

You get it for what you need, it's legal...what's the problem? I'm not being cynical, people who have what they need normally don't propose arguments for the legalization of what they need that they are already getting legally. As for removing the stigma for others, if they are getting it legally for treatment that they need then I see no stigma, but that's not the vast majority of people who argue for the legalization of pot, they just want it to get high. As such their argument could just as easily be used for meth, crack, cocaine, oxy, percocet or any other drug that they wish to abuse to get high. Two of those drugs are legal, and heavily abused (I'm not implying by you) yet legalization of pot is supposed to solve the war on drugs, which is a form of naivete that simply refuses to see the facts that legal prescription drugs are illegally acquired every day and are hurting families. Oh but, pot doesn't hurt people...yeah people who are high always make the best choices for themselves and others. :doh:

My goal is to articulately and convincingly present an argument bases on my personal anecdotal experiences that there is a valid argument for medical marijuana use.

And the argument for medical marijuana has been made which is why it is legal. But, thus far in our discussion this is the first you've made this particular distinction in your argument, sorry for not assuming your distinctions when you didn't state them.

[The 12th Commandment]

You get it for what you need, it's legal...what's the problem? I'm not being cynical, people who have what they need normally don't propose arguments for the legalization of what they need that they are already getting legally. As for removing the stigma for others, if they are getting it legally for treatment that they need then I see no stigma, but that's not the vast majority of people who argue for the legalization of pot, they just want it to get high. As such their argument could just as easily be used for meth, crack, cocaine, oxy, percocet or any other drug that they wish to abuse to get high. Two of those drugs are legal, and heavily abused (I'm not implying by you) yet legalization of pot is supposed to solve the war on drugs, which is a form of naivete that simply refuses to see the facts that legal prescription drugs are illegally acquired every day and are hurting families. Oh but, pot doesn't hurt people...yeah people who are high always make the best choices for themselves and others. :doh:

And the argument for medical marijuana has been made which is why it is legal. But, thus far in our discussion this is the first you've made this particular distinction in your argument, sorry for not assuming your distinctions when you didn't state them.

Yeah, but it's really not legal. There's an official unofficial policy to not prosecute at the federal level. That's a big difference from fully legal and it's one that's allowed to perpetuate due to the attitudes of folks like yourself. I get the wanna get high thing. What can we "justifiable" users (according to you) do to stop that? Since it really does no more harm than many legal substances and there is a valid scientific argument that it does less harm than many of them, who cares if those people abuse the system (my clarification of the distinction)? Happens with legal drugs that are for more dangerous all the time. Only the same losers that use the Cracked arguments sincerely, would be naive or stoned enough to think that drug problem will go away with full legalization. It will impact it though that can't be refuted. Surely you're sophisticated enough to agree that the current system of making them illegal doesn't work either.

[Prosperity]

I don't understand why arguing that taxing marijuana will raise money is "sad"

oh it *only* raises 6+ billion dollars. Are we really so flush with cash that we can just piss away $6 billion dollars, but keep spending more money on prosecution? Philly itself is going to spend 2 million/year less by giving up prosecution of marijuana cases. You can multiply that by every city in the US and the net amount of money saved would be significantly greater than 6 billion.

Is the argument sad because 6 billion dollars is nothing, or is the argument sad because some people claim it will solve all our budget woes? And that's 6 billion yearly, not 6 billion total.

Either way, I see no reason to ignore the positive aspects of a policy... why would we? That would be a dumbass way to discuss policies. The fact that some/most marijuana proponents want to get high is not a weakness in the argument, since when do people make decisions based on just one single solitary factor? Finally, and this is more of a problem with Ashbury's intellectually dishonest methods than anyone elses, but comparisons with meth? Give me a ****ing break.

Why do MJ proponents make these "sad" arguments? Because they show that there are benefits of legalization that you care about, and if you want to justify a prohibition then you should show that the costs outweigh the benefits. Hell, maybe proponents of legalization know that the teatotalers don't give a **** about them or how they want to live so instead of arguing why they want to use (something the teatotalers couldn't understand or care about) they list things that could be marginally beneficial to the teetotalers themselves.

Two of those drugs are legal, and heavily abused (I'm not implying by you) yet legalization of pot is supposed to solve the war on drugs, which is a form of naivete that simply refuses to see the facts that legal prescription drugs are illegally acquired every day and are hurting families. Oh but, pot doesn't hurt people...yeah people who are high always make the best choices for themselves and others.

First of all, nobody needs you, of all, to make choices for them, so if you see yourself as someone qualified to do so.... well, get that idea out of your head now, because you might be getting drunk on unjustified pride and vanity.

Second, because legalizing pot wouldn't solve the deficit and it wouldn't solve the war on drugs, then we should keep it illegal? That's a dumb ass way to think. No SINGLE policy would solve ANY of those problems. Even if something isn't a panacea that doesn't mean it's bad. And the fact that some people overstate their arguments (like you are doing right now) doesn't make them wrong. Fact is, if you look at any of the thread on this site, people exaggerate the benefit of the policy they want ALL the time, that doesn't make every single policy argument sad or worthless. Lastly, the fact that people want to get high doesn't make the substance bad either.

Freaking teetotalers...

[Going Commando]

We don't have to have a good argument for making pot illegal...it already is...it's up to you to argue why it should be legal.

That's stupid. Of course laws should have to justify themselves or they should be repealed. What if someone at the turn of the century with a hamburger agenda successfully lobbied to make chicken sandwiches an illegal controlled substance? You'd be ok with keeping that one on the books because it's been there so long?

In this case I think there is no good reason to criminalize marijuana. Criminalizing it was stupid and misguided from the get go.

[Springfield]

KOA, you know how annoying many evangelical Christians are? They're so serious about winning you over to their way of thinking that they come off boorish and offensive? As a Christian who believes strongly that following Christ is a good way to live, those bible thumpers tick me off because they totally destroy the message with their tactics.

Many pot advocates, some in this thread, come across sounding eerily similar to those guys. You'd do well to distance yourself from them because they are totally wrecking your message.

I say this as someone not inclined to agree with pot legalization but not close minded to legitimate reasons for legalization either...In other words, I am your target audience. "YOU PEOPLE who think that marijuana should be ILLEGAL need to prove WHY IT SHOULD BE" isn't doing anything to win me over.

I agree with you mardi gras as far as your comparison to the bible thumping loudmouths. While I'm not a Christian, I do try to pursue a christian lifestyle as I feel that the general life lessons found in the bible are a good way to live your life.

Now, since you directly quoted me. Allow me to explain why I came off so abrasive. If I would have just said "anti-marijuana proponents should have the burden of proof as to why the law should remain legal", nobody would have responded. Sometimes going loud and dumb is a better way to get noticed (and get on people's bad sides ).

I agreed with four of the five points in the article (see my page 1 post). I think that that the medical use stipulation is one of the worst arguments for legalizing marijuana for all. While it does have medicinal benefits, there are proportionally few people who it would truly benefit over other (FDA approved) drugs. KAO, I'm happy that marijuana is benefiting you. As you said though, your story is anecdotal and those don't fly too well with court cases. It flies with news stories but that's about it.

My point was to not attack the article. The author of the article makes several good, if not snarky, points. My point was present a different case for legalization/decriminalization. I think that my case is valid and really quite simple. If a law is found to be created based on faulty logic, it should be appealed or at least re-evaluated. This can work for any law.

[Special K]

I'm on of those "one persons" and have my card and I'm legal. It truly helps me in with some really nasty side effects that the oxy's didn't. Plus if I don't have it for a day, it's not the end of the world. I hope I never again feel the panic that sets in when you're dependent on pain meds and you run out. What can I do, other than tell you categorically that it helps BIG TIME and it would help a lot of others if there weren't a stigma against it? When did you become so cynical?

I totally understand it, I agree with your premise here. It is counter productive to have Seth Rogen :pfft: as your spokesperson. My goal is to articulately and convincingly present an argument bases on my personal anecdotal experiences that there is a valid argument for medical marijuana use.

Keast, I'm going to a wedding in Durango this week. How does CO deal with medical cards from other states?

KAO - It's the people like you that make me believe medical marijuana SHOULD be legal at the federal level. I truly feel terribly for the pain that you (and others with legit medical conditions) are in and I am so happy that you have found help with medicinal marijuana. Hell, if I had a loved one with cancer or another medical condition that decreased their appetite and placed them in unending pain, I would have no problem getting them marijuana somehow.

That being said, I am not happy with how the current system is being run at a semi-underground level. This makes an environment that is extremely condusive to shady business I practices, no effective oversight, etc. I can tell you I have personally been threatened by business owners on inspections because I am a fed with a badge looking for illegal tobacco activites. I have no idea why these marijuana dispensaries keep getting on both my regular inspection and undercover buy lists, except since there is no tobacco licensure for retailers in the state of Colorado, it is difficult to identify businesses that sell tobacco so I'm sent all over the place and due to the fact that the medical marijuana market is so unbelievably saturated in this state, it only stands to reason that several will pop up on my lists. After a physical threat I received 3 weeks ago at a growing warehouse, I was pushed over the edge and called the state and said that if a freaking place named "Rocky Mountain THC, LLC" showed up on my list, I was immediately closing out the inspection and sending it back to the FDA as a refusal to perform on my part because I am not putting myself, nor other parents' children at risk continuing to do these inspections and undercover buys. The state program coordinator absolutely agreed with me and fully supports me and other Colorado inspectors who've brought up their concerns regarding this issue.

Anyway, my experience with this industry is the reason I really believe this needs to be addressed at the federal level. I am still not for legalization for recreational purposes because I do not believe more harmful substances need to be made readily available to anyone and everyone, we already have enough that are placing an extreme burden on our society and healthcare system (namely tobacco and alcohol). But I would like to see MM legalized at the federal level so that there can be comprehensive, effective oversight like there is of the pharmaceutical industry (although there is much more oversight I think needs to be implemented within the pharmaceutical industry in regards to controlled narcotics like oxycontin, xanax, etc).

As far as out of state medical marijuana cards in Colorado, what exactly do you want to know? How authorities respond to those if they catch you with marijuana? If medicinal marijuana dispensaries will sell to you with an out of state card? I don't know the answers to either of those, but when I get to my office tomorrow morning, I would be happy to make some calls to the state health dept. for you and try to get some answers... I certainly wouldn't want you to get into trouble while you're here for a wedding