A Closer Look at John Beck:2010 Preseasn Cards & Jets

[darrelgreenie]

He played on an epically bad team in 2007 (rookie) while at Miami but the fact that Cam Cameron brought him in after he was cut by the Fins and then traded him for Doug Dutch is telling. I’m rooting for him but just like at QB, there are plenty of other holes on this roster.

To be fair the Ravens also had Marc Bulger as a capable and expensive back up to Flacco and they were seriously hurting for CBs.

BTW-here some intersting stats since everyone seems to bag on Beck for his stats in his 1st 4-5 games a rookie in bad situation.

John Beck (4-5 games) 56.1 comp % 1 TD 3 INTs 62.0 QB rating

Guess which rookie QB (behind a great OL, great running game, great defense and good WR corps)belongs to the stats below?

Rooke QB X (15 games) 53.8 comp % 12 TDs 20 INTs 63.0 QB rating

[RandyHolt]

good thread DG - thanks.

I have a feeling the Shanahans will be working on changing that throwing motion. Book it. If they had McNabb re-learning how to throw a football, rest assured the chosen one Beck will be too. McNabb was just his footwork, but I think its safe to say it was detrimental since he got benched. All a part of throwing. He wasnt going to stop throwing the grounder. Nice try though, Kyle.

Its not like Beck has the resume to fall back on to tell them to go stuff it. I look for that throwing motion to get elevated.

[Diesel__44]

To be fair the Ravens also had Marc Bulger as a capable and expensive back up to Flacco and they were seriously hurting for CBs.

BTW-here some intersting stats since everyone seems to bag on Beck for his stats in his 1st 4-5 games a rookie in bad situation.

John Beck (4-5 games) 56.1 comp % 1 TD 3 INTs 62.0 QB rating

Guess which rookie QB (behind a great OL, great running game, great defense and good WR corps)belongs to the stats below?

Rooke QB X (15 games) 53.8 comp % 12 TDs 20 INTs 63.0 QB rating

I can tell you who had a worse stat line as a rookie...Josh Freeman. Beck is neither Freeman or your example.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I actually "bought in" to the 2010Redskins during this game. That feeling lasted until Larry Johnson ran out of bounds while they were closing out Dallas at FEDEX and damn near lost the game.

How are they going to suck me in this year?

Party decks! LOL Come join the party with the redskins cheerleaders as we celebrate another losing season

[acuratl1984]

To be fair the Ravens also had Marc Bulger as a capable and expensive back up to Flacco and they were seriously hurting for CBs.

BTW-here some intersting stats since everyone seems to bag on Beck for his stats in his 1st 4-5 games a rookie in bad situation.

John Beck (4-5 games) 56.1 comp % 1 TD 3 INTs 62.0 QB rating

Guess which rookie QB (behind a great OL, great running game, great defense and good WR corps)belongs to the stats below?

Rooke QB X (15 games) 53.8 comp % 12 TDs 20 INTs 63.0 QB rating

Is it Sanchez?? It probably is...OVER RATED!!!

[darrelgreenie]

I can tell you who had a worse stat line as a rookie...Josh Freeman. Beck is neither Freeman or your example.

Don't look now but you're making my point.

If you judged Freeman or Sanchez or Stafford from their rookie seasons or their 1st 4-5 starts then John Beck compares quite favorably.

Which goes back to my point, 4-5 games as a rookie is not enough to know or predict what type of QB their numbers suggest they'll become.

Is there anything you noticed or wanted to comment on from watching from John Beck in the Jets and Cards pre-season games?

[darrelgreenie]

Okay Redskins fans. Went back to film study notes of J. Beck senior year at BYU. Broke down 4 gms. This was after 2006 NFL season.

More J. Beck: Effortless mechanics, played relaxed + poised, game was in slow motion to him mentally, good touch + feel, very competitive.

More Beck: Low release point, became 5'11" instead of 6'2". Pocket awareness + understanding of pressure. Effective in muddied pocket.

More Beck: Good decision maker, a rhythm + flow to his game. Biggest issues on tape wefre arm strength (a real concern) + low release point.

More Beck: When I studied him I saw similarities to Brees (remember this was after 2006 season). Brees got chance to develop, Beck didn't.

A lot of questions re: Beck arm strength in Shanahan offense. To me, arm strength limitations always an issue, no matter what pass offense.

These arm strength concers were particularly interesting to me, because there's only ONE thing I remember about Beck from his arrival here during the 2010 preseason: guys said he had a live arm and threw the ball with some zip. (It's mentioned in passing here.) So I asked Cosell about that.

@redskinsblog Interesting point. My analysis from 2006 coaching tape. Very possible (like Brees) his arm has gotten stronger last few years.

More Beck: Not realistic to base long term evaluation on 4 starts in 2007 for bad MIA team. System QB who needs support (run, def, sp teams)

@coopersam Would have ranked Beck higher than Ponder + Dalton. Liked Beck coming out of BYU. Thought he was a starting NFL QB.

[Hooper]

I believe John Keim or Rich Campbell tweeted fairly recently that Skins players have told him that Grossman has a stronger arm than Beck. I was surprised by this.

[darrelgreenie]

I believe John Keim or Rich Campbell tweeted fairly recently that Skins players have told him that Grossman has a stronger arm than Beck. I was surprised by this.

It wouldn't change my opinion but I would like to read what they said in regards to Beck vs Grossman's arm strength.

I think the notion that John Beck has a weak arm is a myth.

One of the few empirical measures of arm strength available takes place at the NFL combine where John Beck measured 61.1 mph.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-03-07-john-beck_N.htm

Anthony Armstrong repeated to me on his radio show what he said during training camp: that John Beck has a 'live arm':

"The highlight of practice," he mused. "Hmmm. John Beck was rolling to his left and had a hell of a pass to Brandon Banks. He looks like he's getting pretty comfortable in the offense in the short couple days that he's been here. We've been saying that he does have a live arm, but it's a whole 'nother quarterback so we've gotta get used to him throwing the ball too, and work on it from there."

http://blog.redskins.com/2010/08/11/...ony-armstrong/

[Oldfan]

A couple of comments on "arm strength."

It's one of those terms which needs defined each time used. Is the speaker talking about velocity or distance? A QB's mechanics might allow him to hum the ball 40 yards, but restrict him when throwing for maximum distance.

Beck's low release point is a clue that he might very well have a compact, "short-arm" delivery (baseball term) which involves more bicep which, in turn, permits good velocity and good accuracy, with a quick release. But, it is less than ideal when throwing for distance.

[IceBlue33]

Long ball throwing is the least desirable trait imo. You will not make a living throwing Hail Mary's in the NFL. DB's are too quick and recovery time is too great in the NFL. Savvy, accuracy, mobility and a quick release are the most important to me. FWIW Beck throws a nice long ball once his timing is down with his receivers. He definitely has shortcomings but I think he will work out well if given the opportunity. Those on here who keep calling for Rexy to get another chance because Beck already had his in Miami are smoking something only legal in California

[Hooper]

Those on here who keep calling for Rexy to get another chance because Beck already had his in Miami are smoking something only legal in California

We'll see. I still think the job is completely up for grabs and Shanahan is just trying to build up Beck's confidence. It's clear that Grossman was told they want him to come back and by several accounts, he looked more than a little better than Beck in the informal workouts.Guys like Cooley clearly are big fans.

Of course, all of that means squat. Plus, I live in California. Maybe some second hand weed is getting to me.

I think whoever starts -- Beck or Grossman -- will surprise folks.

[THEREALTOR1]

Long ball throwing is the least desirable trait imo. You will not make a living throwing Hail Mary's in the NFL. DB's are too quick and recovery time is too great in the NFL. Savvy, accuracy, mobility and a quick release are the most important to me. FWIW Beck throws a nice long ball once his timing is down with his receivers. He definitely has shortcomings but I think he will work out well if given the opportunity. Those on here who keep calling for Rexy to get another chance because Beck already had his in Miami are smoking something only legal in California

We'll see. I still think the job is completely up for grabs and Shanahan is just trying to build up Beck's confidence. It's clear that Grossman was told they want him to come back and by several accounts, he looked more than a little better than Beck in the informal workouts.Guys like Cooley clearly are big fans.

Of course, all of that means squat. Plus, I live in California. Maybe some second hand weed is getting to me.

I think whoever starts -- Beck or Grossman -- will surprise folks.

I think IceBlue is trying to say that Beck shouldn't be discounted simply because of his experiences with Miami. I guess similarily how RG shouldn't be discounted entirely because of his past performance on other teams. Although he does have a bit more tape on him to evaluate vs what Beck has. Looks like we may be setting up for an all out QB battle at TC if we ever get back to playing football. Skins fans should be thrilled, how long has it been since a true TC QB battle (cough, cough )

also i'm not sure where the arm strength questions come from. All that i've read from digging around on the webz indicated that Beck had no problem throwing the long ball and as others have posted in here, he lit up the radar gun at the combine with the fastest ball speed of the QB class that year.

[Pedro]

It's not 70 yards but it's quite a distance and I would expect his arm to be stronger now too.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Side note: I really like T. Austin. He might be a diamond in the rough.

i heard him on the radio yesterday........i like him and his attitude, i think the skins have something wit that guy. I really do. I root for players like him, I think that if he gets some breaks to go his way and the QB situation improves, he could be a GREAT player for your team. For the fact that Armstrong is as good as he is, maybe the skins WR corp is better then they think????

[santanathegreat]

Even if you have a problem with accuracy/velocity/throwing motion, you do have to admit that it looks like he has control of the offense and he makes quick decisions. He's not holding the ball and getting sacked like Jason Campbell. He makes quick decisive throws and he works a quick pace the way the Shahanans like it. Problem with Donovan is that it looks like he takes his time and doesn't call plays at the pace that the Shannys want.

[RandyHolt]

Thanks darrel for starting a relevant thread and discussion. Versus a: Today is __________'s birthday. Its football. No one cares dude.

I wonder how much the Shans are going to tweak his mechanics and arm. I dont like teaching old dog new tricks. It failed with McNabb. Beck is no greenhorn himself. If they dont like the way a QB throws, find another, is my thinking.

[Hitman21ST]

Thanks darrel for starting a relevant thread and discussion. Versus a: Today is __________'s birthday. Its football. No one cares dude.

I wonder how much the Shans are going to tweak his mechanics and arm. I dont like teaching old dog new tricks. It failed with McNabb. Beck is no greenhorn himself. If they dont like the way a QB throws, find another, is my thinking.

I don't think the problem with McNabb was his mechanics. It was more the way he ran the offense...not really having a sense of urgency, making the wrong reads, etc.

[RandyHolt]

I don't think the problem with McNabb was his mechanics. It was more the way he ran the offense...not really having a sense of urgency, making the wrong reads, etc.

He certainly had his struggles here. But what was he asked to do. I think be someone he is not, read deep to shallow IIRC. Backwards of what I would logically think to do. Still, how did he ever make it to all those championship games, and pro bowls. Dont answer. I think he can run an NFL offense and his resume shows this.

Over his career, it was his inaccuracy and inconsistency in the short passing games, that was his weakness. Grounders. Seemed coachable. Evolved into more of a pocket passer. This far into his career, great players may have a little ego going on, I think he was more just a bad fit for the Shanahans, who seem to have their own egos in play. They want things done their way. Including changing mechanics. I think Mcnabb didn't like being told how to win games by someone younger than him.

Enter the presumably more coachable Beck. Back on topic. I hope they let him sidearm it for a year before changing him. Be natural. Otherwise, he will be like McNabb over thinking his reads and mechanics. The beauty of bringing in a vet, he doesn't overthink! Bah, In Beck we Trust.

[Mahons21]

He certainly had his struggles here. But what was he asked to do. I think be someone he is not, read deep to shallow IIRC. Backwards of what I would logically think to do. Still, how did he ever make it to all those championship games, and pro bowls. Dont answer. I think he can run an NFL offense and his resume shows this.

Or Andy Reid is a QB guru who knows how to design a gameplan/scheme to get the most out of his QB, his resume shows this as well.

I think there was alot more to the McNabb fiasco behind the scenes than any of us will ever know. As far as Beck as concerned, I'd rather Grossman be the starter and that's saying something.

[Hitman21ST]

He certainly had his struggles here. But what was he asked to do. I think be someone he is not, read deep to shallow IIRC. Backwards of what I would logically think to do. Still, how did he ever make it to all those championship games, and pro bowls. Dont answer. I think he can run an NFL offense and his resume shows this.

He can run an NFL offense? Is that why in the one Super Bowl he made, with less than five minutes to go and down ten points, he ran the offense like it was middle of the third quarter and the score was tied?

[darrelgreenie]

Enter the presumably more coachable Beck. Back on topic. I hope they let him sidearm it for a year before changing him. Be natural. Otherwise, he will be like McNabb over thinking his reads and mechanics. The beauty of bringing in a vet, he doesn't overthink! Bah, In Beck we Trust.

Beck's throwing motion is main physical trait that gives me pause.

Beck likes to throw form different angles and heights, which is fine but his main motion is a 3/4 motion with a low (almost shoulder hieght) release point.

I wonder about him being able to find throwing lanes and getting balls batted down.

But, who knows? His throwing motion may prove to be a non-issue.

If Beck earns his way onto the field I think they'll let him sink or swim without trying to tinkering with how he throws the football.

I don't think they'll try to change his throwing motion.

Its one area that coaches typically try to leave alone.

[RandyHolt]

I think its telling that we are going with Grossman or Beck after somehow fumbling away Nubb. Do the Shanahan's take any responsibility on him not working out here. They brought him here. I would tell them to look in the mirror. But Nubb is Nubb, this is not his thread.

I worry about Becks throwing motion forcing the wheels of change. Instead of rolling him out, and creating throwing lanes, whatever needs to be done to work to a QB's sidearm strengths, I suspect Kyle wants to change that motion. Time will tell if I am right. Sure its unSonny like, but if it couldnt get things done, the Shanahans would have never been enamored with the kid in the first place. I like a little side arm pass in a QB's arsenal. There is more than one way to skin a panther. I fear Shanahans wants almost robotic QB play. Perfect form, their form, no questions asked. I think being a QB for those 2 is not easy. Daaaaad.

[Mahons21]

Randy I think you might have things a little mixed up though I could be mistaken. From what I understand Kyle didn't really want to change all McNabb's fundamentals, rather he just wanted to work on his footwork because this is a timing offense based on being in rhythm.

So on plays that req a 3-step drop, Kyle wanted McNabb to take his 3 and fire the ball away, but that wasn't happening.

That is how I interpreted the whole fiasco.

-It is interesting to note that McNabb said in his interview this offseason he wants to get back to working on his fundamentals. That sounds to me like someone who's trying to save face, as he's done all offseason via statements through his agent that he later denies.

If Beck is also unwilling to commit to the designed footwork within this offense than I assume Kyle will grow frustrated w/ him too, but I doubt he'll ever change his throwing motion.

[kyousukeneko]

well ligitamentaly shanny brought

Rod Smith

Ed Mccaffrey

Brandon marshall

all where low picsk unwanted FA or not even drafted