A Closer Look at John Beck:2010 Preseasn Cards & Jets

[Hitman21ST]

I think its telling that we are going with Grossman or Beck after somehow fumbling away Nubb. Do the Shanahan's take any responsibility on him not working out here. They brought him here. I would tell them to look in the mirror. But Nubb is Nubb, this is not his thread.

I worry about Becks throwing motion forcing the wheels of change. Instead of rolling him out, and creating throwing lanes, whatever needs to be done to work to a QB's sidearm strengths, I suspect Kyle wants to change that motion. Time will tell if I am right. Sure its unSonny like, but if it couldnt get things done, the Shanahans would have never been enamored with the kid in the first place. I like a little side arm pass in a QB's arsenal. There is more than one way to skin a panther. I fear Shanahans wants almost robotic QB play. Perfect form, their form, no questions asked. I think being a QB for those 2 is not easy. Daaaaad.

Elway and Cutler didn't exactly have the perfect passing forms. To that extent, neither does Schaub.

[Oldfan]

Mike Shanahan has said that the QB's height doesn't concern him much because QBs don't throw over six-six linemen anyway. We can presume from that that he isn't too concerned with release points as well. It's obviously a factor, but not nearly as big a factor as many believe.

Former Skins QBs who had low release points include Mark Brunell and Sonny Jurgensen.

[MartinC]

Elway and Cutler didn't exactly have the perfect passing forms.

I used to love watching Elway throw a football, it was thing of beauty and he had picture perfect mechanics, throwing motion and especially very very good footwork and weight transfer.

There in nothing wrong with McNabbs throwing motion but his footwork is poor and he gets lazy sometimes throwing of his back foot when he does not need to and he can be inconsistent with his release point again for no good reason. Thats why he is inaccurate and inconsistent on shorter throws IMO.

On the 3/4 release Beck has I don't see that as an issue. Many very good QBs have had 3/4 or even lower releases - its not what you would coach for someone starting out but its also not something you would change if the QB gets good velocity and is accurate with that motion. Heck think of Bernie Kosar, he threw it from about waist height (not really but it was close). QB's do not often throw over lineman, blocking is set up to create passing lanes and they throw between them more often than not.

[Warpath11]

IOn the 3/4 release Beck has I don't see that as an issue. Many very good QBs have had 3/4 or even lower releases - its not what you would coach for someone starting out but its also not something you would change if the QB gets good velocity and is accurate with that motion. Heck think of Bernie Kosar, he threw it from about waist height (not really but it was close). QB's do often throw over lineman, blocking is set up to create passing lanes and they throw between them more often than not.

Jay Cutler also has a 3/4 release and he is doing pretty well (is Jay 6'2 or 6'3?). Also one of the best pure arms (not head), Jeff George, had a 3/4 release. Anyway I think a QB can have success with a 3/4 delivery. Sure its not ideal but if it is effective let him keep doint it.

[darrelgreenie]

Beck

Que paso mi amigo?

Speaking of Beck you feel like doing a breakdown of him from these 2 pre-season games?

I started to but was traveling with limited internet access for about 2 weeks and forgot all about it.

[MartinC]

Que paso mi amigo?

Speaking of Beck you feel like doing a breakdown of him from these 2 pre-season games?

I started to but was traveling with limited internet access for about 2 weeks and forgot all about it.

Hey DG - I'm good thanks. Been traveling quite a bit with work so a little quite.

Happy to do a breakdown but it will have to wait for a few days as I'm tied up with a huge project right now. Maybe end of next week?

[darrelgreenie]

Great read:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2011/07/06/emerging-nfl-talents-qb-john-beck-redskins/#comment-147

[Wheat]

Will be interesting to see if Banks makes the roster over Austin who has apparently bee working hard this offseason or Paul.

If I were a gambling man, I would say Banks is likely gone. He is an exciting player, but got injured last year and it slowed him down mid-way through the season. Toward the end of the season it looked like he might have gotten his step back, but then he goes and gets in a fight in the off season and gets stabbed. During the draft we brought in many, "character" guys. Banks lying about the particulars of his altercation does not bode well if the coaches are really looking for "character".

As for Beck...I forgot how quick his release was. On top of that, I liked how he went through his progressions. He seemed comfortable in the pocket.

[Laxpunk2006]

If I were a gambling man, I would say Banks is likely gone. He is an exciting player, but got injured last year and it slowed him down mid-way through the season. Toward the end of the season it looked like he might have gotten his step back, but then he goes and gets in a fight in the off season and gets stabbed. During the draft we brought in many, "character" guys. Banks lying about the particulars of his altercation does not bode well if the coaches are really looking for "character".

As for Beck...I forgot how quick his release was. On top of that, I liked how he went through his progressions. He seemed comfortable in the pocket.

When was this made known? I must have missed this.

[darrelgreenie]

More John Beck (rookie year vs Steelers):

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80492ad4/Week-12-John-Beck-highlights

2009 Preseason vs Atlanta

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8125cb81/Ravens-20-Falcons-3

[Hiro]

Great read:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2011/07/06/emerging-nfl-talents-qb-john-beck-redskins/#comment-147

Really good article, DG. I was even more excited to find this article within that one, I didn't know about this:

When word broke that John Beck had arranged for a friend from church to tape the Redskins’ player-only workouts, and when Rich Campbell from the Washington Times provided this photo of said friend, some sad cynics wanted to be cynical. To wit, here’s reputable Skins fan Jack Kogod, writing at KSK:

The man who is certain to take over as the team’s starting quarterback by sheer force of positive will has enlisted the help of a friend whose job it is to record the proceedings. Because John Beck is a LEADER OF MEN, and filming fake practices screams of leadership and other intangible qualities that will make the Shanahan duo swoon.

He probably doesn’t believe in unicorns or tooth fairies, either. Because when you listen to Beck talk about the videography, the Shanahans won’t be the only ones swooning.

“I’m just trying to do what I can to provide guys an opportunity to get better,” he told reporters on Wednesday, via 106.7 The Fan. “I mean, that’s really what it’s about: I’m trying to get better, they’re trying to get better, but it’s tough when you don’t have tape to go back and critique. That’s really the story of the lockout, just doing what we can. It would be ideal if we could be at our facility, with our coaches, talking with them, watching their tape, but we can’t. So we’re stuck plugging it into a TV at the house, getting to the house and watching it.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-beck-on-videotaping-practices/2011/06/15/AGbmCNWH_blog.html

Beck really deserves this shot.

[darrelgreenie]

Like Schaub, Beck does a great job of moving up within the pocket to get out of trouble, and both quarterbacks keep their eyes upfield when flushed out of the pocket, looking for open receivers. While neither of the two will ever be confused for Michael Vick because of their speed, they have enough speed and instincts to run for a yard or two when all their receivers are covered.

In terms of physical talents, Beck is more gifted than Schaub. Beck's game film shows him consistently throwing a crisp and accurate ball with incredible velocity. One aspect of Beck's game that is particularly promising is his ability to place the ball where only his receiver can reach it. Even when his throw is off-target, it is placed ahead of his receivers instead of near defensive backs.

Additionally, Beck does an excellent job of going through his progressions and looking to multiple receivers on each play. The mental acuity to scan through reads until finding an open receiver is one of the most important intangible aspects of being an NFL quarterback, and is an ability Beck has displayed in his playing time.

Beck's potential is real, and it has former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann excited. In an interview with the Washington Post's Jason Reid, Theismann said he believes Beck can "be a quarterback in this town for four or five years." Theismann also said he doesn't see a difference between Beck and Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Kevin Kolb.

"John Beck and Kevin Kolb came out the same year," Theismann said.

"Because Eagles Coach Andy Reid named Kevin Kolb a starter for a half of a game, or a quarter of a game, we've anointed him the hottest free agent out there. But what has he done? I mean, really, what has he done? Then you take a look at John Beck, who sat for a number of years, who was in another bad situation offensively in Miami."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hank-koebler/redskins-beck-experiment-_b_905022.html

[darrelgreenie]

What are people hoping to see/not see from Beck?

I hope to see;

-His quick release/anticipation we've been hearing about.

-Him using his legs to create a play down-field

-Using his legs to move around the pocket as well

-Him take at least once chance down-field

-His 3/4 throw in action, will any of his balls get batted?

Hope I don't see;

-Him bail on the pocket and use his legs more than necessary, ie 1 read then duck n run

-Any wild inaccuracies down-field

-A Qb that is scared and consistently checks-down

I think some of things you want to see are evident form these preseason games.

Forgot to post the Cards game:

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Some throws that stood out:

@1:13 Arm strength throw, just talking skillset or physical ability not result; He over throws the double covered WR-but he uncorks a bomb from the 15 yd line to the opposing 32 yd line about a 63 yard throw in the air

@ 2:01 Climbs up in the pocket, then rips a 20 yard side arm pass on a line to Austin

@ 4:12 Nimble feet and quick execution on the bootleg, squares his shoulders and makes a good throw on the move to Austin

@ 6:00 Good velocity and accuracy on a quick 3-step slant to Devin Thomas

@ 6:56 From the hash to the sideline (in the air from the 27 yd line to the 44) not a long throw but good velocity

@ 7:11 Good touch on fade down (L) sideline

@ 7:26 Best throw of the day I thought-From the 18 yd line quick release/3/4 motin side arm fling on a rope on target to Austin down the hash to the 48; great throw (about a 30 yard throw in the air)

@ 7:40 ??? WTF Follows up a great throw with a terrible side arm throw off balance and off target

@ 8:00 Half-playaction fires a dart to Banks on the 12 yd square in/dig route

Well that what I saw-what did you guys see

Thoughts?

I bet you could start a good thread on this topic alone: What are people hoping to see/not see from Beck?

[Mahons21]

Ya probably could be a thread of it's own, but I don't like starting an entirely new thread unless I have a lot of meat to put in the OP.

As far as the cards pre-season game goes, you were absolutely right, I was able to find virtually everything I was/wasn't looking for.

quick release- check

anticipation- check (made all the right reads IMO, when he was blitzed)

using legs within pocket/outside pocket- check

shot down field - check (Nit-picking, it was to a double covered Austin)

3/4 motion check- no glaring deficiencies with balls being batted

He didn't bail on the pocket

He was 1/2 downfield as far as I'm concerned, Austin never should have dropped the deep seam route pass.

He didn't play scared checking it down

I wouldn't say I expect that much of Beck with my criteria, but he does pass in every category. I like what I see from Beck, but I also liked what I saw from Colt Brennan, until Beck proves something in live action against 1st teamers, I'll have my doubts.

I also liked his ball placement, only INT he threw was entirely on Thomas who pulls his route up short, he also had a few other passes that should have been caught, a back shoulder throw to R. Williams stuck out, and a post route by Hodge sticks out.

[darrelgreenie]

Off topic but I felt like Brennan struggled to throw the ball with velocity.

I went to training camp and saw Brennan side by side with Campbell and throws that Campbell was able to make in rhythm with ease Brennan would have to hitch or take a mini pro-hop baseball style to complete.

I came away wondering if Brennan had the arm strength to make it in the NFL.

[Mahons21]

I didn't know that about him, gonna do a little fishing see if I can find any of his old pre-season cut ups and take a look. I'd also add that Campbell had/has one hell of a cannon.

[darrelgreenie]

1.) His throwing motion bugs me. Particularly the fact that he tends to side arm fling the ball when throwing to his right. His footwork is good (if not inconsistent), and his overall mechanics seem fine. But you see him side arm the ball a lot, which I think isn't very good. Looking back at the fourth preseason game versus the Cardinals and versus the Jets, he makes a few throws that could've been easily completed if he had planted his foot and thrown the ball instead of side-arming it. His receiver usually had to adjust to the ball, or he threw it into the ground. Neither is good.

Partner that with a low delivery, and I think it's going to mean some unnecessary incomplete passes on some easy throws, and some balls that are batted back at the line of scrimmage.

2.) I think he's got happy feet in the pocket sometimes, which leads to a break down in his otherwise solid fundamentals. It was a knock on him coming out of BYU, it followed him to Miami, it showed up in Baltimore in preseason at times, and it pops up in the Jets and Cardinals game from last season. That of course leads to some of those side arm throws I talk to, but it also contributed to the lack of velocity on some of his other throws. He's got an arm, but he has to be more consistent with his footwork and not be quite so eager to run, which I feel like he wants to do (which is what a lot of rookies want to do).

3.) You know, sometimes you admire the guts of a man who will throw the ball to Brandon Banks when he's matched up on Antonio Cromartie, or who will come within a hair of completing a pass to Terrence Austin with three guys around him...but you also have to question the decision making. I'm sure part of that was Kyle just saying "put it up there, let your guy make a play", but still. It's worry some.

4.) The arm strength. Which kinda goes hand and hand with his sorta 3/4's release and the happy feet in the pocket. It's seems like, just judging by the reports coming out of camp, it's not that he can't throw the deep ball. He can. But he's been overthrowing people, and his passes haven't looked pretty getting there. He's got the accuracy on the short and intermediate stuff, but I'd like to know he was going to be able to stretch the field on a consistent basis without throwing one of those McNabb-esque "You're either going to have to adjust like crazy to this football or it's going to be overthrown" kind of deals.

Of course I could be wrong about this. Probably am. But that's some of the stuff I notice that's formulated purely on my own opinions. And for the record, I like a lot more about John Beck than I don't. I do like Rex a bit more, though, I won't lie.