Conn Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 If you look through his post history....he's definitely serious. From a guy who doesn't think Keiland Williams should even be on an NFL roster, and who literally thinks a high school QB would run this offense better than Rex Grossman, its not really surprising that he has never even ****ing heard of O.J. Atogwe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 We signed Buchanon to a one year deal worth $1.5 million, with another $750,000 possible in incentives. Detroit cut him because he was going to make $3.5 mil. Sorry that will teach me from getting my info from yahoo sports:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Wow. You are my least favorite kind of fan. I presume your using the term "fan" in it's loosest possible meaning Conn my good man? (That was rhetorical BTW.). Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The same reason people skipped Tom Brady for six rounds. Seriously, what kind of question is that? Barnes is young, physical, and he's showed some potential. You have to give players a shot to prove themselves. Carlos Rogers wants too much. Unless he lowers his asking price he's gone. So what's the downside to trying to play Barnes, or maybe even Westbrook? You either find your young CB you can keep starting for years, you find that they're just quality depth guys, or you find they're a waste of a roster spot and move on. I don't see any reason to keep Barnes basically in limbo on the roster. We need to play him extensively this season and see what he's got, if anything at all. Seriously what has he Barnes or Westbrook ( other than being blocked into the returner on a fumbled punt) shown - point to one game more than one play in any of the last 32 games, when we have been hurting at CB and DB in general that Barnes has stepped up and really shown us (He is young ? Is that a qualification now - he is young ? Physical ? Really ? )- yes he will be starting for us next season he looks like a real talent .. if Rogers goes - which looks more and more likely then the problem I have is you take away the complementary part of the secondary who is a decent tackler, good in coverage and is an original Redskin (Hall is a below average tackler, Landry is a gambler and Atogwe is questionable as a tackler - Sure Barnes could make a massive leap and be a legitimate starter next year but that is a risk akin to hoping BMW would be a reliable guard in the NFL - It could happen but probably wont . The thing is why spend nearly $30 million on a FS and then hit and hope at the CB position . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I presume your using the term "fan" in it's loosest possible meaning Conn my good man? (That was rhetorical BTW.).Hail. I know its rhetorical, but it deserves a response Yes, I use the term "fan" very loosely here. I'm not sure how anybody who pays attention to the NFL could be unaware of the existence of O.J. Atogwe. More importantly, I'm not sure how they could fail to Google him and do some research before commenting on the signing. And even MORE importantly, I'm not sure how they could "grade" a player based on name recognition. That's some serious Vinny-esque thinking right there. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Who is Antogne or who ever he is? Really? My take is the 'skins paid way too much for a guy past his prime that was never that great anyway. I'd be happier with a drafted rookie or current pro-bowler. Maybe someone I've heard of. Yeah, I guess a guy who has generated the third most turnovers in the NFL over the past 5 years is past his prime and wasn't too great at all. What ESPN post or Dallas message board did you read that gave you that opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Seriously what has he Barnes or Westbrook ( other than being blocked into the returner on a fumbled punt) shown - point to one game more than one play in any of the last 32 games, when we have been hurting at CB and DB in general that Barnes has stepped up and really shown us (He is young ? Is that a qualification now - he is young ? Physical ? Really ? )- yes he will be starting for us next season he looks like a real talent .. if Rogers goes - which looks more and more likely then the problem I have is you take away the complementary part of the secondary who is a decent tackler, good in coverage and is an original Redskin (Hall is a below average tackler, Landry is a gambler and Atogwe is questionable as a tackler - Sure Barnes could make a massive leap and be a legitimate starter next year but that is a risk akin to hoping BMW would be a reliable guard in the NFL - It could happen but probably wont . The thing is why spend nearly $30 million on a FS and then hit and hope at the CB position . . . . You mean like the INT Barnes got in OT to seal the Jacksonville game? You know Carlos would've never located the ball, or dropped it at best. Comparing Rogers to Hall isn't fair, because Hall gives you many things Rogers just doesn't. Rogers flat out doesn't make plays on runs that aren't to him, or break off of his man and tackle someone else's. He isn't cleaning up messes in the secondary or some tackling machine. He had 54 tackles, Hall had 95, Landry had 85...Buchanon had 45 as our nickel. If he's so great at it, why did he have the fewest tackles of our full-time starters in the secondary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 You mean like the INT Barnes got in OT to seal the Jacksonville game? You know Carlos would've never located the ball, or dropped it at best. Comparing Rogers to Hall isn't fair, because Hall gives you many things Rogers just doesn't. Rogers flat out doesn't make plays on runs that aren't to him, or break off of his man and tackle someone else's. He isn't cleaning up messes in the secondary or some tackling machine. He had 54 tackles, Hall had 95, Landry had 85...Buchanon had 45 as our nickel. If he's so great at it, why did he have the fewest tackles of our full-time starters in the secondary? Hmm looking into this then to be honest last season was not the best year for Rogers he only played 12 games and there were comments about him malingering with his injuries . In fact if you look at the statistics and the metrics Buchanan was by far the best CB on the team in coverage, but coverage is one of the things you do not get from Hall . Hall gives you interceptions - but is not great in coverage in fact as this article pointed out http://redskinshogheaven.com/2010-articles/november/individual-redskins-statistics-at-the-halfway-point.html But also one of the reasons Hall gets so many tackles (as is the case of DBs in general) is because he get beaten like a drum . In the Lions game alone Hall was targeted 13 times - he at mid season had a %sucsess rate against him of 59% - which would have put him in the bottom 25% of the NFL Rogers is and consistently has been better than Hall in coverage in his career . What Hall gives you is big plays - big plays against you and big plays for you . Rogers tends to be the opposite and stops plays (although so does Buchanan) . Okay I been down on Barnes (but he really is a disappointment - 4 games in 2 seasons for a former 3rd round pick is pretty pathetic) - I normally don't like attacking our own players, but people are anointing him as a starting CB and he simply is not that . He is right now a good backup who can contribute at FS and CB - Interestingly the Int you talk of came as he was playing FS and came in a game where we also got a decent amount of pressure for a change. . To critize Rogers on dropping INTS is fine, but there is little wrong with Rogers placement, awareness and positioning, the problem comes with him actually catching the ball. If he had caught 50% of the INTS he has dropped we would not be having this discussion, had he caught them all he would be one of the top CBs in the NFL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Carlos is a good tackler. Decent zone CB but good at press and run. He doesn't make a lot of picks. He can be inconsistent and gets nicked up. It all depends on how much Carlos wants. I think he could be replaced in house w/ Barnes without a huge drop off in performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hmm looking into this then to be honest last season was not the best year for Rogers he only played 12 games and there were comments about him malingering with his injuries . In fact if you look at the statistics and the metrics Buchanan was by far the best CB on the team in coverage, but coverage is one of the things you do not get from Hall . Hall gives you interceptions - but is not great in coverage in fact as this article pointed out http://redskinshogheaven.com/2010-articles/november/individual-redskins-statistics-at-the-halfway-point.html But also one of the reasons Hall gets so many tackles (as is the case of DBs in general) is because he get beaten like a drum . In the Lions game alone Hall was targeted 13 times - he at mid season had a %sucsess rate against him of 59% - which would have put him in the bottom 25% of the NFL Rogers is and consistently has been better than Hall in coverage in his career . What Hall gives you is big plays - big plays against you and big plays for you . Rogers tends to be the opposite and stops plays (although so does Buchanan) . Okay I been down on Barnes (but he really is a disappointment - 4 games in 2 seasons for a former 3rd round pick is pretty pathetic) - I normally don't like attacking our own players, but people are anointing him as a starting CB and he simply is not that . He is right now a good backup who can contribute at FS and CB - Interestingly the Int you talk of came as he was playing FS and came in a game where we also got a decent amount of pressure for a change. . To critize Rogers on dropping INTS is fine, but there is little wrong with Rogers placement, awareness and positioning, the problem comes with him actually catching the ball. If he had caught 50% of the INTS he has dropped we would not be having this discussion, had he caught them all he would be one of the top CBs in the NFL . You get coverage from Hall. But Hall is a CB that benefits from pressure being put on a QB. Bad throws around him are dangerous, and as we saw can allow him to change games. If our front seven gets pressure, him and Atogwe are going to benefit tremendously. Rogers wouldn't have, because he doesn't locate the ball in the air, nor has he shown a knack for route recognition. Completely disagree with your last statement. Rogers has never read a QBs eyes and gone to where he thinks the ball's going, or jumped a short route. He's never stepped inside a WR running a slant or a curl and taken the ball. His INTs consist of bad throws to his body where he's as surprised as everyone else that he has the ball. #28 had 'bad hands' but he still made plays on the ball. So you're saying the difference in Roger's and Hall's tackle totals is because Hall 'got beaten more'. Maybe, 5, or 10 tackles, but 41? Rogers just wasn't as active in the run game. He would be a good CB if he caught most of his INTs, and if he had more of an impact. Right now, he's just good at coverage...and that isn't worth $50 mil. His tackling' is overrated because of the one big hit he put on Josh Cribbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Completely disagree with your last statement. Rogers has never read a QBs eyes and gone to where he thinks the ball's going, or jumped a short route. He's never stepped inside a WR running a slant or a curl and taken the ball. His INTs consist of bad throws to his body where he's as surprised as everyone else that he has the ball. #28 had 'bad hands' but he still made plays on the ball. Agree with much of what you say, except for the statement above...totally untrue. Rogers does this CONSISTENTLY and does it well. The only way you can average more drops than the entire WR corps in a season (exaggeration) is by putting yourself in a position to make a play. The statement was never, so here is proof otherwise - ff to 1:37: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRhBtC6Fn-0 His tackling' is overrated because of the one big hit he put on Josh Cribbs. Also disagreed. No one is talking about big hits, they are talking about fundamental tackling, and Rogers is our best tackler out of all of our DB's, and aside from Landry's insane season last year, maybe the entire secondary. Bottom line, he's not worth $50M, most everyone agrees. But to jump to ridiculous conclusions like some folks are on this thread like its a given Barnes can step up, Carlos sucks and should walk etc etc...the EXTREEEEEEEEEEMEEEEEE nature of some of the comments (one way or the other, hes either the best or the worst) are indicative of the most frustrating aspect of this fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Agree with much of what you say, except for the statement above...totally untrue. Rogers does this CONSISTENTLY and does it well. The only way you can average more drops than the entire WR corps in a season (exaggeration) is by putting yourself in a position to make a play. The statement was never, so here is proof otherwise - ff to 1:37: With the exception of one interception, over the course of his 6 year career, I can't think of very many times where you could consider a play by him 'ball hawking'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rogers gets caught out of position all of the time...but plays fall in his lap and he either makes them or doesn't...he doesn't very often make things happen on his own, like forced fumbles, or INTs. He could never put it all together...either he's in position and doesn't make the play, or vice versa. Also disagreed. No one is talking about big hits, they are talking about fundamental tackling, and Rogers is our best tackler out of all of our DB's, and aside from Landry's insane season last year, maybe the entire secondary. When has Rogers shown this superior display of tackling? Are you implying that he's somehow active in the run game? I think he gets this reputation because he's a big corner..."He's great at tackling", "He can man up big, physical receivers". What has he actually done, especially recently? The only year he had alot of tackles, we got torched in our secondary. This year, we were also terrible and it's like we got less. Bottom line, he's not worth $50M, most everyone agrees. But to jump to ridiculous conclusions like some folks are on this thread like its a given Barnes can step up, Carlos sucks and should walk etc etc...the EXTREEEEEEEEEEMEEEEEE nature of some of the comments (one way or the other, hes either the best or the worst) are indicative of the most frustrating aspect of this fanbase. No, part of it's frustration. He hasn't grown as a player and he never took that leap. Look at this thread from 2006: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?174205-Carlos-Rogers-is-a-bust/page2 All of the same questions and criticisms apply. He's still susceptible to the play action. His hands/awareness/playmaking never developed. Is there anyone arguing that the guy's going to somehow improve at this stage of his career? Maybe it's better he go anyways, because he'll never live up to what we feel a #9 overall pick should be doing. He can go to a new franchise, and not have all the feelings of bitterness for being tendered low, and not being paid to his liking. Everyone's saying he's just solid. We can get 'solid' without the headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Carlos has been a solid Redskin for the time he has been here. I have never been a fan of his attitude and at times questioned his effort in games. Carlos is the type of player Shanny's trying to get away from. I would not be surprised if he is not brought back in large part due to his poor attitude. The amount of money that he is rumored to want is ridiculous and not going to happen here with the Redskins. His attitude and effort are my opinions that I have formulated over the years from watching all his games, listening to sound bytes and reading articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Missed opportunities on turnovers cost you football games. You want the big money deal then you better make plays that win games for your team when you have the chance. This is it right here. I liked Carlos but last season was the breaking point for me. In the past when the ball would go thru his hands and hit his helmet i would just laugh and be like "Well that's ole stone hands". This year the drops just really started to piss me off. I'd go as far as to say on record i could catch 3/4ths of those balls he dropped one handed. It's freaking insane, it costs us TOs and most likely games. Hit the road Carlos. CBs are going to get beat, happens to all of them.... but damn it at least most of them can get a pick 6 or that crucial 4th quarter INT to seal a game. I don't want him back even at a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 This is it right here. I liked Carlos but last season was the breaking point for me. In the past when the ball would go thru his hands and hit his helmet i would just laugh and be like "Well that's ole stone hands". This year the drops just really started to piss me off. I'd go as far as to say on record i could catch 3/4ths of those balls he dropped one handed. It's freaking insane, it costs us TOs and most likely games. Hit the road Carlos. CBs are going to get beat, happens to all of them.... but damn it at least most of them can get a pick 6 or that crucial 4th quarter INT to seal a game. I don't want him back even at a reasonable price. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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