McNabb Speculation - Vote if you think he's here next season

[Skinzfever2010]

I just can't agree with this, I thought that the offense looked night and day those three games, even when we weren't scoring 4 TD's a game. the rhythm of the offense, getting from the huddle to the line, the execution of screens and the high-percentage passing plays, just everything. It felt like a much more precise offense, with an identity. Its something that McNabb couldn't accomplish in 13 games.

This I can agree with!

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 05:02 PM ----------

I hope so, man. I hope he can do that, if he's here.

I just don't think that he's that much more "talented", in this scheme, than Rex at this point in his career.

lol getting from the huddle to the line was noticeably quicker

[SirClintonPortis]

What made McNabb a dynamic playmaker was his legs, not his Rodgers/Manning/Rapistberger-like ability to methodically drive the team down the field every time. His legs are not there anymore. He runs a little slower than or just as fast as Campbell now. Since his mobility is gone, we are treated to "pocket passer" McNabb, which is pretty average AT BEST.

Also, he does have a way of tossing his teammates under the bus in the most blase way possible; this means that he is willing antagonize his teammates with little notice from the public. He scapegoated "the young guys" after the Cowboys shut them out and the defense for not holding the lead while in '08 playoff run without taking one iota of blame. This is unacceptable for a leader.

[Conn]

lol getting from the huddle to the line was noticeably quicker

Is this agreement, or a question? If you didn't notice it, then you must not watch many other teams that DO have effective rhythm offenses.

You'll also notice that we didn't waste timeouts or get delay-of-game penalties with Rex under center.

Its all part of it.

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 05:11 PM ----------

What made McNabb a dynamic playmaker was his legs, not his Rodgers/Manning/Rapistberger-like ability to methodically drive the team down the field every time. His legs are not there anymore. He runs a little slower than or just as fast as Campbell now. Since his mobility is gone, we are treated to "pocket passer" McNabb, which is pretty average AT BEST.

I'd agree with all of this, adding the caveat that he starts out the season with his mobility, and he loses it within 4-6 weeks. It happened with the Eagles, and it happened here. Once his legs go, his mobility is gone, and his mechanics are screwed, meaning he loses the accuracy that he did have.

[gorebd82]

At this stage in his career, other than the deep ball that he occasionally hits in stride, is McNabb really that much more talented than Rex? Use your eyes and the evidence, not your past perceptions of what McNabb did with the Eagles after ten years in the same system.

McNabb didn't improve his mechanics with the Eagles, and hasn't done it here. Why would he now?

Rex was better, but McNabb is still more physically talented. He has the ability to be better, the question is whether he's humble enough to conform.

Because after year 1 he realizes that in order for him to get his career back on track he needs to conform. Trying something different in his approach (mixed with a better O-line/WRs) could lead to the revival of his career and our downtrodden franchise.

Yup. He's in the same boat as Albert and Rex. This is probably the offseason that will determine how your legacy ends. So what are you gonna do?

I just can't agree with this, I thought that the offense looked night and day those three games, even when we weren't scoring 4 TD's a game. the rhythm of the offense, getting from the huddle to the line, the execution of screens and the high-percentage passing plays, just everything. It felt like a much more precise offense, with an identity. Its something that McNabb couldn't accomplish in 13 games.

This I can agree with!

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 05:02 PM ----------

I hope so, man. I hope he can do that, if he's here.

I just don't think that he's that much more "talented", in this scheme, than Rex at this point in his career.

lol getting from the huddle to the line was noticeably quicker

I think part of the thing is that we need to distinguish the difference between "better" and "talent". Rex was better. McNabb is more talented. Hopefully, McNabb embraces the coaching so that his talent can make him better than Rex.

And it does start with things like the rhythm of the offense. Mike and Kyle complained about McNabb's pace and they were right. That's something that can be drastically improved if McNabb works to learn the system. He has to learn to communicate better with Kyle. He needs to learn not to audible out of so many calls. It really comes down to McNabb's ego. Is he big enough to trust his coaches and follow the program. Run the offense the way they want it to be run.

What made McNabb a dynamic playmaker was his legs, not his Rodgers/Manning/Rapistberger-like ability to methodically drive the team down the field every time. His legs are not there anymore. He runs a little slower than or just as fast as Campbell now. Since his mobility is gone, we are treated to "pocket passer" McNabb, which is pretty average AT BEST.

Also, he does have a way of tossing his teammates under the bus in the most blase way possible; this means that he is willing antagonize his teammates with little notice from the public. He scapegoated "the young guys" after the Cowboys shut them out and the defense for not holding the lead while in '08 playoff run without taking one iota of blame. This is unacceptable for a leader.

Even if McNabb's legs aren't what they used to be, they're still way above average. When he had hamstring issues, it magnified the problems of his lack of mastering the offense. His hamstrings will heal, now the question is whether he accepts that his best chance to perform at a high level is to really on his head and executing the offense more than his god given playmaking abilities.

Look at the results of Rex. If McNabb buys in that same way, he could be excellent.

[Conn]

No one has yet given me a single tangible reason why, at this stage in his career, McNabb is "more talented" than Rex Grossman.

Where is it? Don't give me stats, especially stats of McNabb with the Eagles. Use your eyes. Even before the hammy injuries, how was McNabb "more talented"? At this stage in his career, what can McNabb do that Grossman can't?

And this has nothing to do with years in the system.

[gorebd82]

Is this agreement, or a question? If you didn't notice it, then you must not watch many other teams that DO have effective rhythm offenses.

You'll also notice that we didn't waste timeouts or get delay-of-game penalties with Rex under center.

Its all part of it.

This is the exact point. Rex did what he was told. McNabb did what he wanted to. That's why Rex performed better than Donovan.

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 05:23 PM ----------

No one has yet given me a single tangible reason why, at this stage in his career, McNabb is "more talented" than Rex Grossman.

Where is it? Don't give me stats, especially stats of McNabb with the Eagles. Use your eyes. Even before the hammy injuries, how was McNabb "more talented"? At this stage in his career, what can McNabb do that Grossman can't?

And this has nothing to do with years in the system.

He's bigger, faster, has a stronger arm. He just doesn't know the offense.

[Hooper]

No one has yet given me a single tangible reason why, at this stage in his career, McNabb is "more talented" than Rex Grossman.

Where is it? Don't give me stats, especially stats of McNabb with the Eagles. Use your eyes. Even before the hammy injuries, how was McNabb "more talented"? At this stage in his career, what can McNabb do that Grossman can't?

And this has nothing to do with years in the system.

It's perception. People still think Donovan is the same guy who was so great in Philadelphia and Rex Grossman as... well, Rex Grossman.

I think this is why Shanahan made all those lame "conditioning" excuses when he benched McNabb the first time. He didn't know how to come out and just say "I think Rex Grossman might be better now than Donovan McNabb is. You know, that guy with the great career who I traded two high picks for."

Also, some posters read me wrong. I didn't post that I heard Arizona was interested in McNabb. I heard they were interested in Rex.

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 10:43 PM ----------

This is the exact point. Rex did what he was told. McNabb did what he wanted to. That's why Rex performed better than Donovan.

---------- Post added February-9th-2011 at 05:23 PM ----------

He's bigger, faster, has a stronger arm. He just doesn't know the offense.

It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you can't hit what you're aiming at.

How many times did we end up in third and long because on first and second down Donny bounced the ball in front of an open receiver?

[RWJ]

I wouldn't mind us picking up Alex Smith of the 9ers. He has had the best receivers or coaches to work with as the past HC of the 9ers have been defense oriented. I think Shanny could work wonders with him and get the best out of him. Just a thought.

[Conn]

He's bigger, faster, has a stronger arm. He just doesn't know the offense.

You didn't answer why McNabb was more talented. You answered why he's a better athlete. Why he'd be a better sprinter or shot-putter.

He's big and fast (for his age, and compared to Grossman). That's nice. Doesn't stop him from getting injured every season, and his legs at this age have worn out mid-way through the season, screwing his mobility and making his accuracy even worse, for a few years now.

And he's got a stronger arm, but what good does that do? He still can't hit the short passes, the medium passes are iffy, and his long balls, while looking beautiful, rarely hit someone perfectly in stride, even when he doesn't have someone in his face. And the long ball is his best quality.

So, to sum up again, you told me why Donovan McNabb is the better athlete. Not why he's a more talented QB at this point in his career. And I believe that's because you can't realistically make the case that he's a better QB than Rex Grossman. You can't.

Use your eyes, use the stats, I don't care. At this stage in his career, there's nothing that McNabb can do, that Grossman can't. Unless, of course, you want him to put no touch on screen passes, no accuracy or touch on many passes from 3-15 yards down-field, or you want him to overthrow or underthrow a receiver 30-40 yards down-field, on third and short. He can do many of those things better than Grossman.

I also agree with everything Hooper says here, and think that he did a good job putting it concisely and correctly:

It's perception. People still think Donovan is the same guy who was so great in Philadelphia and Rex Grossman as... well, Rex Grossman.

I think this is why Shanahan made all those lame "conditioning" excuses when he benched McNabb the first time. He didn't know how to come out and just say "I think Rex Grossman might be better now than Donovan McNabb is. You know, that guy with the great career who I traded two high picks for."

It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you can't hit what you're aiming at.

How many times did we end up in third and long because on first and second down Donny bounced the ball in front of an open receiver?

This is part of it as well. And this short-medium accuracy problem is not a scheme-fit issue. Its just who McNabb is as a player. Tweaking his mechanics at the age of 34 is only going to get you so far.

[Commander PK]

I voted Yes, because for some reason I believe both sides are going to be able to patch things up and continue on. I just have a gut feeling about it, even though I know it seems very unlikely at this point.

[papaSkins27]

I hate the idea of Grossman as our QB it literally makes me :puke:

I'd much rather have declining, washed up, inaccurate, McNabb then Grossman or Beck under center, neither is the future and I just dislike the idea of either as our starter. I could only possibly entertain the idea of Grossman as our #1 QB if it means we are purposefully tanking the season in order to draft Luck, outside of that I'd rather chew on glass.

That being said, I really think McNabb's done here even though there isn't any better options available at the moment. My homer hopes are that we trade McNabb for a 3rd or 4th and use that pick to land a mid round sleeper stud like McElroy and he comes in and lights it up in camp, eventually stepping over Grossman and claiming the starting role by mid preseason.

But we're the Redskins and we're never that lucky. So it probably all turns out worse then I could have ever imagined and there's plenty of media ****-storm to read as it all goes down in flames.

[irishgizzy]

I will never understand how people say Rexy played so much better than McNabb. I believe Rex had 8 lost turnovers for the 3 games and one series he played. I think McNabb had 16 lost turnovers for the 13 games he played. I even think 3 of those turnovers were on hail mary passes as well. And for those who say a lost fumble is no worse than a recovered fumble (esp when McNabb did most of the recovering), it seems to me whenever a team gives up the ball on a turnover it is a bad thing especially when it leads to a score.

Also, Rexy had the benefit of having Ryan Torain as his starter all 3 games. If I recall McNabb did not have the benefit of Torain for about a month or so and had to make do with practice team squad members at running back. He also did not have the services of our only decent o-lineman in Williams for 3 games I believe. And what NFL goliaths did Rexy play - Dallas without Tony Romo sits to pee (loss), Jacksonville without Maurice Jones Drew, (win) and the Giants (loss). He went 1-2. I think everyone will agree that Donovan played the harder schedule (Green Bay (win), Indy (close loss), Philly (split), Chicago (win) with less talent due to injury and being battered by 37 sacks.

McNabb was sacked 37 times in 13 games which was 2.8 sacks per game. Completion % 58.3 , avg passing ypg 259.8, passer rating 77.1, tds 14 and avg rushing ypg 11.6

Grossman was sacked 9 times in the 3 games and the series he played. Completion % 55.6, avg passing ypg 294.7, passer rating 81.2, tds 7, and avg rushing ypg 2.

Yeah, the average offense under Grossman was about 30 yards better per game and we scored more touchdowns. However, almost all his lost turnovers led to scores by the other team which negated any benefit of the extra touchdowns.

Yeah, McNabb could have played better no doubt. But he did not play like a third stringer and Grossman like a starter. The only difference is Kyle believes wholeheartedly in Rexy, he was with him in Houston and considers him a very close friend.

The only reason I feel that so many fans are so eager to make McNabb the scapegoat for this awful season is it is easier. Easier to blame McNabb than blame the entire o-line or bottom ranked defense or second rate running game for most of the year. Or to blame Shanahan for making so many arrogant mistakes this year (carrying thru old beat up running backs in trainng camp, putting Kelly on IR when he would have been ready mid-season, completely switiching defenses without the right personnel, trying to fit so many players into systems they were not equpped for). We all want to believe in Shanahan - that he is finally going to end the nightmare run of the Redskins the last few years. And if Shanahan goes out of his way to humiliate McNabb by the multiple benchings and whispers of cardiovascular endurance and inability to understand the playbook, well he must be right because in Shanny we trust.

And it is so much easier with McNabb because up till last year he was the enemy - an Eagle who was a thorn in our side for years. He isn't a real Redskin - he just wore the uniform for the year. Plus he stole those draft picks from us - even though we all know McNabb did not benefit in any way by that trade. Hell, the damage to his professional reputation may have destroyed his career.

At any rate, I apologize for the length of this post. It is just my opinion for what it is worth. I dont' believe for one minute McNabb will be back next year. And frankly it is time for a fresh start for both parties. It is time for this marriage made in hell to just end.

[addicted]

Fair enough, I think the only fair thing is a QB competition anyways, but especially in this situation.

Careful what you wish for.

The best time to trade McNabb "IF" we could would not be to until training camp to see who's the better player. Everyone at that time of the year remembers that stupid trade we did for a RB a couple years ago because of a training camp injury and "thinks" that it could happen again so we should hold onto a guy and wait until someone gets hurt to "cash in" when the truth is that's not very likely to happen. How often do training camp injuries cause other teams to trade draft picks for QB's? Hardly never.

Or they think that we could showcase to the league how much better McNabb is in "year 2" and try and "cash in" on that. Problem is we are the Redskins. And no self respecting fans going to want to see McNabb start out looking fresh and ready to play and play better then the backup then suddenly see him shipped out of town. The reason we accept that Rex is the starter is because he looked and performed better. If he didn't I doubt anyone wants to see Rex come back next year. We just aren't going to accept that from this team. If McNabb looks good, he's not going anywhere.

Or what could happen is McNabb looks like the same QB he was this year and the league sours on him and he loses his trade value. I mean who's going to think there going to the Superbowl with a QB who couldn't beat out "Sexy Rexy"? If McNabb's flat in preseason there goes our trade bait.

The best way to trade McNabb for the most value in return would be prior to the draft. If you do it prior to the draft it allows for the other guy to spend his pick not on a rookie QB but another player because they get McNabb and suddenly don't have any QB issues. That helps them. It helps us too because you get more picks in the draft to use or if your smart you get a pick this year and one the following year from the other guy. Either way you got great options and reasons to trade him prior to the draft then after it.

I can't see any good in going into training camp other then hoping some poor soul gets injured so we can trade him then. If your going to trade McNabb you need to do it as soon as you can and hope that it's before the draft. If you want his confidence back you don't go into the preseason with a "QB competition" on your hands because it would make the news and unless McNabb wins in convincing fashion your value has now decreased.

I'm not saying we should trade him and give up yet. I'm just saying that a QB competition is not good for anyone if you think your going to cut a guy and with that contract it's hard to not think at some point that we don't have much of a choice but to cut him or trade him

[darrelgreenie]

The only reason I feel that so many fans are so eager to make McNabb the scapegoat for this awful season is it is easier. Easier to blame McNabb than blame the entire o-line or bottom ranked defense or second rate running game for most of the year. Or to blame Shanahan for making so many arrogant mistakes this year (carrying thru old beat up running backs in trainng camp, putting Kelly on IR when he would have been ready mid-season, completely switiching defenses without the right personnel, trying to fit so many players into systems they were not equpped for). We all want to believe in Shanahan - that he is finally going to end the nightmare run of the Redskins the last few years. And if Shanahan goes out of his way to humiliate McNabb by the multiple benchings and whispers of cardiovascular endurance and inability to understand the playbook, well he must be right because in Shanny we trust.

And it is so much easier with McNabb because up till last year he was the enemy - an Eagle who was a thorn in our side for years. He isn't a real Redskin - he just wore the uniform for the year. Plus he stole those draft picks from us - even though we all know McNabb did not benefit in any way by that trade. Hell, the damage to his professional reputation may have destroyed his career.

At any rate, I apologize for the length of this post. It is just my opinion for what it is worth. I dont' believe for one minute McNabb will be back next year. And frankly it is time for a fresh start for both parties. It is time for this marriage made in hell to just end.

No apologizes your post was spot on although not its not a popular view around here. (you didn't even mention that McNabb was coming off a pro-bowl season only to come here and have the worst season of his career.)

I still have faith that Kyle Shanahan will get better and chalk up the mistakes this year to growing pains and hubris.

Afterall its his first time putting an offense together from scratch.

In Houston he was handed the keys to an offense that was ready to go.

[mi6]

Best scenario ... we trade him to the SF 49ers,

[RWJ]

Wonder if Cincy would want to trade Palmer for McNabb. Nah, probably not.

[skinsforlife101]

I think he has to be here next season. No QB is worth the number 10 pick in my mind, and there are no better QB's out there in FA.

Call me crazy, I agree but, the main question is what capacity will he be back in? Will he be a starter or a backup. Bottom line is I don't think Bruce and Mike gamble a take a QB in the first round of this draft. Unless some team is crazy enough to offer a first round pick for McNabb

[Spooky]

I think Shanahan and Allen will look at this very analytically. Unless, another team gives a decent pick then they will keep McNabb. They will feel McNabb this year will be in the same place as Grossman last year. He will give us a better chance to win and tutor whatever QB we draft.

They are looking at things differently then the Redskins fans are used to seeing. Here, the media is concerned about throwing players under the bus, disrepecting players, and personal conflicts. All of the things that sells the news when the team is not winning. Then the fans follow suit and reflect their sentiment. I think in the past some of the decisions out of Redskins park was based on DC media and fan perception.

I think that has changed. Shanahan and Allen do not seem to care how the rest of the world views those things. Like, the season is lost--lets see what we have in Grossman. Analytically it is smart but it is viewed sourly by the press. However, the Post has to sell papers and the new front office is more concerned about building a winning product. McNabb will give us the best chance of winning. He will be here.

[Conn]

I hate the idea of Grossman as our QB it literally makes me :puke:

I'd much rather have declining, washed up, inaccurate, McNabb then Grossman[...]under center, neither is the future and I just dislike the idea of either as our starter.

And that's the problem with most fans. They don't believe their eyes or use their heads...they often have pre-determined, biased, irrational opinions that are very hard to shake. Even if they make no sense, they still feel that way.

[ouvan59]

I will never understand how people say Rexy played so much better than McNabb..

It doesn't matter if you think Grossman wasn't better than McNabb (which I believe he was.) He was at least just as good. The problem is that Donavan McNabb has a huge cap number and isn't any better than Rex Grossman. No Grossman isn't the future at QB but neither is McNabb and if we can get anything for him we need to. McNabb wasn't showing any signs that he was grasping the offense as the season went along. I don't know how many times he was hurrying at the last second to get the snap off because his presnap reads were so damn slow. His short and medium pass timing and accuracy was abysmal. The downside to keeping Donovan is just too high. And the clincher is that, even if you don't think it was any better, the offense looked like it ran so much smoother with Rex Grossman under center...Rex Grossman!!!

[papaSkins27]

And that's the problem with most fans. They don't believe their eyes or use their heads...they often have pre-determined, biased, irrational opinions that are very hard to shake. Even if they make no sense, they still feel that way.

My eyes saw McNabb throw his classic dirt skipper's left and right all too often, it would enrage and frustrate me time and again. My eyes also saw Grossman fumbling or getting the ball ripped way more then any QB ever should, throwing weak-armed stupid picks, and looking like a lost boy under pressure.

My head tells me to pick dirt skipper over turnover boy.

Your right though, I indeed have a "pre-determined biased opinion" that Grossman throws tons of brain fart picks, gets sacked a lot and loses the ball too often, because he does, he's been known for it his entire career. I also have a "pre-determined biased opinion" of McNabb, although he's sometimes horribly inaccurate, he's a winner that can make the big plays.

I know Grossman looked semi decent in Kyles offense due to his familiarity with it, but he's not a championship caliber QB, he's a solid backup. So out of the two I pick McNabb if I had a gun to my testicles, but obviously that ship has sailed and we will be parting ways (I didn't like bringing him in in the first place) with McNabb, I still won't ever be content with :puke: Grossman as our starting QB, I really like him as our #2 though. Hail.

[Rodskins]

If we cannot get at least a 3rd round pick for him, then I hope we keep him. I wish they would do some trading and get a 3rd and 4th...or if they could somehow pull out another 2nd, that would be awesome!

[ross3909]

The more I talk to Philly fans the more I realize that even with a good O-line and a good grasp of the system, McNabb will always give you those head scratching moments. We would be wise to move on, but after watching this staff over the last year, I have a feeling that McNabb might still be here on opening day 2011.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

If Grossman can be 75% as good as McNabb, you might as well save the money and use him. Neither guy will be our 2012 starter (hopefully).

[zCommander]

I am not sure why people think that he won't be here. 1. The FO spent a 2nd rounder on him and 2. Signed a big contract with him and tied up a lot of money into him.

As far as the benching goes at the end of the season - Kyle just wanted to see what other QBs can do - turned out to be just Rex - but still get a head start in your evaluation process earlier than later.