Daily Beast: GOP Abortion Bill Redefines Rape

[DRSmith]

Are there laws against smoking with a fetus or drinking?

[twa]

Are there laws against smoking with a fetus or drinking?

Nope,not that I am aware of

[DRSmith]

Nope,not that I am aware of

So why are the same people pushing to make abortion harder not doing something about this?

[twa]

So why are the same people pushing to make abortion harder not doing something about this?

One is certain death(unless the butcher screws up),the other is a indeterminate risk

You would be better served hoping to interdict in drug use or diseased partners

[DRSmith]

One is certain death(unless the butcher screws up),the other is a indeterminate risk

You would be better served hoping to interdict in drug use or diseased partners

Alcohol causes serious damage i have seen kids that are the product of AFS

Smoking not only introduces an addictive drug into a child but tar and other carcinogens

Now if this was really about protecting the unborn then such laws would be pushed for

What this seems to me to be is nothing more than people trying to force others to do something while pretending they care about the child in fact both sides view the child the same

Do you support raising taxes or expanding government programs to help these children who are born?

[twa]

Do you support raising taxes or expanding government programs to help these children who are born?

Yes I do,you might note we already obligated to do so by law....yet strangely we delude our self on the lives of the unborn,despite clear scientific evidence it is a human life.

Do you find it odd society is required to support children in need?...I find it odd we casually sanction their death in earlier stages,yet profess such concern later

added

for your prior points

Smoking,nor drinking is terminal and there is far lesser scientific basis for a complete ban

Your example of excessive alcohol consumption can land you in mandated rehab(pregnant or not)

[AsburySkinsFan]

Do you find it odd society is required to support children in need?...I find it odd we casually sanction their death in earlier stages,yet profess such concern later

And I find it odd that we profess concern for their lives in the earlier stages and yet casually sanction their lives of poverty, and inadequate health coverage later. If you want to force someone to have a baby then you better be prepared to take care of that baby once it's born.

[DRSmith]

Yes I do,you might note we already obligated to do so by law....yet strangely we delude our self on the lives of the unborn,despite clear scientific evidence it is a human life.

Do you find it odd society is required to support children in need?...I find it odd we casually sanction their death in earlier stages,yet profess such concern later

added

for your prior points

Smoking,nor drinking is terminal and there is far lesser scientific basis for a complete ban

Your example of excessive alcohol consumption can land you in mandated rehab(pregnant or not)

So as long as the damage is not terminal it is okay?

Actually if a parent wants to poorly excercise the authority they have that which they create I encourage them not too but if they do it forms the basis for their judgement

[twa]

Strange,I thought we fed,educated and provided opportunity for all...oh yes and provided free medical during their formative yrs

If you are truly poor in this country you are screwing up somewhere bigtime.

But go ahead and build a strawman while supporting not even giving them a chance to succeed or fail.

---------- Post added February-3rd-2011 at 07:02 PM ----------

So as long as the damage is not terminal it is okay?

The science does not support society's intervention in those cases except for alcohol abuse(not use),I do not also see the govt paying for their cigs or alcohol(but strangely many support taxpayer funded abortions w/o clear risk to life...Why is that?)

we do however educate and apply pressure...yet if that same type education or pressure is suggested for abortion people go nuts.

[elkabong82]

I think Daily Show nailed it. The cost previously of covering the abortions that this bill seeks to eliminate, is 2/10 of 1 penny, and there were only 191 cases covered.

I agree with those saying this bill likely won't pass, and that is merely a tool to placate the constituency and give the GOP something to sensationalize for their constituency come election time.

Rape is rape, and I personally find it disgusting that amid the current crisis that member of the GOP would willingly waste time on this in the House and tax dollars, especially for something so callous as trying to redefine rape just to placate certain voters.

I'm personally against abortion unless its a case of rape or the mothers lifeis at risk. But I'm even more against the government trying to regulate a woman's body. I've never once thought I had the responsibility to advise others one way or the other on abortions, that's up to them.

I do agree with twa about increased education on abortions. but I also feel that if one is strongly against abortion, then they need to be strongly in favor of the gov't support systems that help children and their families, you can't just care about the baby being born and then not give a crap about how it is raised, IMO.

[Larry]

. . . I personally find it disgusting that amid the current crisis that member of the GOP would willingly waste time on this in the House and tax dollars, especially for something so callous as trying to redefine rape just to placate certain voters.

Hey. The bill is classic political grandstanding. And says a lot about "Who is the GOP?".

But let's not get all high and mighty about wasting time or tax dollars on passing meaningless legislation. Congress probably passes 100 bills a day on things like designating April as National Used Car Upholstery Detailers Month.

[twa]

I'm personally against abortion unless its a case of rape or the mothers lifeis at risk. But I'm even more against the government trying to regulate a woman's body. I've never once thought I had the responsibility to advise others one way or the other on abortions, that's up to them.

.

I'm afraid that is not a option if you believe it is a life and that life has intrinsic value.

I have no wish to mandate how others live their lives,but ignoring the taking of innocent life w/o more justification than it's my body is ignoring society's obligation to life.

I clearly don't mind the taking of life with the right justification though...maybe I'm just jealous of the freedom women enjoy.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Strange,I thought we fed,educated and provided opportunity for all...oh yes and provided free medical during their formative yrs

Interesting, because those seem to be the very entitlement programs that so many on the Right want to do away with. Strange how that works, the Right wants to take credit for what entitlement programs do all the while calling for the elimination of entitlement programs.

If you are truly poor in this country you are screwing up somewhere big time.

Ahh now this just becomes a definition of the word "poor".

But go ahead and build a strawman while supporting not even giving them a chance to succeed or fail.

And keep ignoring the fact that cycles of poverty are not the fault of entitlement programs...those same programs that you just took credit for BTW.

[twa]

Eliminate or reform?

Care to demonstrate the right supporting ending the bare necessities of life?

If the definition of life and human is open to such interpretation then poor is certainly fair game.

[JimboDaMan]

So I not only have to be responsible for my own actions, but for hers as well? Interesting. Maybe I should get some say when it comes to abortion in that case. Since that's the only argument I've heard against giving men rights where abortion is concerned.

Yep. You are not allowed to take advantage of the mentally impaired. Even if the impairment is temporary, and even if that person is at fault for their own impairment. Sorry if that cramps your style.

[twa]

Shirely;) you are not saying women who unintentionally get pregnant in this day and age are mentally impaired?

[JMS]

are they saying that it's not rape or that we're not to use taxpayer money to fund the abortion resulting from that rape? are they saying that the perpetrator can't be charged?

Both... IT's legal to use taxpayer money for abortion if someone was raped. Now statutory rape, incest and date rape via roofies , they are saying aren't rape.

Your typical red meet for the base.... sell a 13 year old incest victem down the river for a few inbred votes from the low country.

---------- Post added February-3rd-2011 at 09:59 PM ----------

Shirely;) you are not saying women who unintentionally get pregnant in this day and age are mentally impaired?

No that's not what he's saying, Your rights, Her rights are all secondary when you bring a life into the world. In such a case the best interests of the child are considered first. As I'm sure you agree, it should be... and don't call me shirely.

[renaissance]

I think Daily Show nailed it. The cost previously of covering the abortions that this bill seeks to eliminate, is 2/10 of 1 penny, and there were only 191 cases covered.

I agree with those saying this bill likely won't pass, and that is merely a tool to placate the constituency and give the GOP something to sensationalize for their constituency come election time.

Rape is rape, and I personally find it disgusting that amid the current crisis that member of the GOP would willingly waste time on this in the House and tax dollars, especially for something so callous as trying to redefine rape just to placate certain voters.

I'm personally against abortion unless its a case of rape or the mothers lifeis at risk. But I'm even more against the government trying to regulate a woman's body. I've never once thought I had the responsibility to advise others one way or the other on abortions, that's up to them.

I do agree with twa about increased education on abortions. but I also feel that if one is strongly against abortion, then they need to be strongly in favor of the gov't support systems that help children and their families, you can't just care about the baby being born and then not give a crap about how it is raised, IMO.

I find this to be an excellent post and I agree completely.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Eliminate or reform?

Sure the Right wants to reform entitlements...they want to reform them into non-existence, just ask Rand Paul. Unconstitutional I believe he called that spending.

Care to demonstrate the right supporting ending the bare necessities of life?

twa, you seriously never cease to crack me up with your diversions, because now you get to play with the interpretation of what is a "bare necessity" and so distract from what you did by taking credit for Socialist policies all while demanding that children be born whom you have no interest in investing in their lives. This is the typical attitude of the current Pro-Life crowd, "sanctity of human life in the womb, and then once they're out...screw 'em now they're on their own." Sure they'll never say it, but their actions speak loudly.

If the definition of life and human is open to such interpretation then poor is certainly fair game.

But, you're doing it as a game instead of actually addressing the issues, you and I both agree on life, and yet you want to play a game about life in poverty. And this is probably my biggest fault with those on the Right, because they don't want to address the issues of poverty, all they want to do is argue about poverty, and in the end the poor are not stuck in poverty, they are stuck in a never ending argument about poverty which enables the Right to sit back and blame someone else for cyclical poverty that they had every much a hand in creating.

*edit

BTW, yeah I'm pissed, so I'm ending my participation in this thread.

[twa]

No that's not what he's saying, Your rights, Her rights are all secondary when you bring a life into the world. In such a case the best interests of the child are considered first. As I'm sure you agree, it should be... and don't call me shirely.

I agree completely,I just wish more agreed with that and my definition of when life is brought into this world.

gonna take a break from this thread,I'm getting obsessive

[Major Harris]

Yep. You are not allowed to take advantage of the mentally impaired. Even if the impairment is temporary, and even if that person is at fault for their own impairment. Sorry if that cramps your style.

what if you both are impaired?

[DRSmith]

Strange,I thought we fed,educated and provided opportunity for all...oh yes and provided free medical during their formative yrs

If you are truly poor in this country you are screwing up somewhere bigtime.

But go ahead and build a strawman while supporting not even giving them a chance to succeed or fail.

---------- Post added February-3rd-2011 at 07:02 PM ----------

The science does not support society's intervention in those cases except for alcohol abuse(not use),I do not also see the govt paying for their cigs or alcohol(but strangely many support taxpayer funded abortions w/o clear risk to life...Why is that?)

we do however educate and apply pressure...yet if that same type education or pressure is suggested for abortion people go nuts.

I have no problem with education and have no problem limiting what a person on govt assistence can purchase, I do not like the idea of last minute pressure as some want in the forms of ultrasounds etc.

The education process should begin at home be strictly guided in school and when one gets pregnant help should be offered.

Just as the smoker does not like to be harped on when lighting up and this does not stop a person those standing outside an abortion clinic with signs berating the women as the enter do not solve the problem.

The problem I have with the anti abortion crowd is their methods you can not force others to be moral you do not change people by yelling at them.

I find it interesting that many of the same people whom I encounter who are anti abortionists are also anti gay marriage, if family is important and love is important than maybe there should be a balance that is struck and maybe a little more tolerance in society over all may lead to less younger people with a bleak outlook on life and bringing people into the world.

[twa]

The problem I have with the anti abortion crowd is their methods you can not force others to be moral you do not change people by yelling at them.

I agree yelling and harassing is counterproductive,we can and do however force people to be moral(as defined by society) and educate them

It is interesting how some wish the focus to be on anything other than it is a innocent human life and as deserving of consideration as other lives that we allow to be extinguished.

You want to cut down abortion and improve choices and contraceptive use?

Acknowledge what a fetus is as a country and give basic consideration to what we allow

[DRSmith]

I agree yelling and harassing is counterproductive,we can and do however force people to be moral(as defined by society) and educate them

It is interesting how some wish the focus to be on anything other than it is a innocent human life and as deserving of consideration as other lives that we allow to be extinguished.

You want to cut down abortion and improve choices and contraceptive use?

Acknowledge what a fetus is as a country and give basic consideration to what we allow

We can not force people to be moral , for instance we can say it is illegal to murder but you do not stamp out hate in fact when you try to moderate hateful words people say they have a right to free speech.

I am not in favour of legislating morality, but I think it is noble that people want an ideal world be it free from guns, illnesses and loss of life but I know it will not happen through man's efforts because too many people insist on their rights.

[JimboDaMan]

what if you both are impaired?

Already answered.