Major Harris Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Already answered. where? and if you say "it's not rape," then how do you determine if one is actually impaired? what's the cut off? if a woman was impaired and had sex with a drunk guy, how does one prove he was drunk? lots of gray area here you seem to be ignoring. very idealistic cut and dry view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Why are Republicans/conservatives against abortion in the case of rape or incest? While not all Republicans or conservatives are against abortion in the case of rape or incest, it is a good question to ask. IMO, mental health repercussions of a pregnancy occuring from rape are at the same level of physical risks. AKA, while many people are okay with abortion if a woman's life is at risk, they are not okay with a woman getting an abortion if she has been raped because her physical health is not at risk. I happen to value mental health as much as physical health... As for this specific bill,well, it's clearly aimed to garner support from the uber conservative/religious right bloc. I think it's wasted effort for minimal votes on their part. But whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Keast, how much of those mental health repercussions will carry over even with a abortion? I agree that it is both real and a important consideration, as is the innocent's life at stake(or should be)...our default should not however be death. Most agree it should be allowable...even us evil conservatives Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Keast, how much of those mental health repercussions will carry over even with a abortion?I agree that it is both real and a important consideration, as is the innocent's life at stake(or should be)...our default should not however be death. Most agree it should be allowable...even us evil conservatives Hersh There have been several studies that show a fairly high percentage of people who have an abortion suffer long term psychological distress because of the decision. For many, the impact of what they've chosen to do haunts them for a long time. So, aborting actually carries mental health risks too. Certainly, there is also mental scarring in the case of rape regardless of if there is an abortion. I think one should never go in thinking this is easy from any perspective. It's a pretty delicate question, twa. Then again, it's a pretty delicate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 There have been several studies that show a fairly high percentage of people who have an abortion suffer long term psychological distress because of the decision. For many, the impact of what they've chosen to do haunts them for a long time. So, aborting actually carries mental health risks too. Actially, I'm taking an Intro to Ethics class, right now. (So far, I think it's more of an "how to argue" class). A large part of the grade is going to come from a paper we're going to be writing about a modern, controversial, topic of our choosing. I was just reading the instructor's notes that he posted for student's papers. A large part of his notes concerned sources that you shouldn't use if you want a good grade. (#1 on the list was Wikipedia. His suggestion was that there's nothing wrong with using Wikipedia to familiarize yourself with the background or context of an issue. But just because it says something doesn't mean it's a fact.) And one thing he specifically warned people who chose to write about the abortion issue was citing claims of women exhibiting mental problems after abortions. He says (I'm paraphrasing, here) that all of the reputable mental health studies have concluded that where those stories come from is from women who've had abortions being convinced by pro-lifers that they have done a horrible thing. That the regrets the studies find, were deliberately planted by the "researchers", who were trying to create that result. Now, that's the unsupported statement of some guy who's teaching freshman classes at a community college. Not exactly time to announce "[/thread]". And I've never heard it said, anywhere else. Whatever it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 One of my sources was very first hand, Larry. My first job was working in a psychiatric wing of the hospital and there was a patient who indeed did go through it. The abortion process, from what I gather, is not easy nor should it be. It's not done and over for some. You may be right that several of the places where I've heard this came from a biased source. The fact that it matched what I experienced may have made me look at it with less scrutiny. Then again, there's a heck of a lot of literature out there and I bet you can find a ton of studies that disagree with each other that are all good studies. That's one of the fun and scary things about social science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Actually, on this issue, I don't know if there is such a thing as unbiased information. (I put Israel-Palestine in the same category.) At the very least, if there is unbiased information out there, I'll freely admit that I can't spot it among all the snowblowers slinging doodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well, there are certainly good scholarly papers and carefully done research. Now whether the discussion section is completely free of bias who knows, but I bet that there are quite a few honest blind studies out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 A study clearly shows having a child is more mentally disturbing. http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/26/abortion.mental.health/index.html As if any parent did not already know that added http://www.debate.org/debates/Rape-and-Abortion/2/ I content that if a fetus has a right to life, then the fact that it was conceived by rape cannot justify killing it. It has been argued that "Forcing [a woman] not to abort is to remind her of the rape day-by-day which would be a serious mental strain" and that the existence of the child would be a further traumatization. I agree that this is true, but is does not undermine the fetus's (supposed) right to life. If we hold that a fetus has a right to life then this is not sufficient grounds to kill it. An adult human being would not be killed for reminding someone that she was raped, even voluntarily. It would be extremely difficult, impossible in my opinion, to argue that one person's life is worth less than keeping another person happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Keast, how much of those mental health repercussions will carry over even with a abortion?I agree that it is both real and a important consideration, as is the innocent's life at stake(or should be)...our default should not however be death. Most agree it should be allowable...even us evil conservatives Hersh Good question. I don't think there is a lot of literature out there on that, at least that I've come across. I didn't mean to insinuate that a rape victim having an abortion would wipe out any mental health repercussions of the rape. For some women, carrying the baby to term would not take as large of a toll on their mental status as other women. For some women, it might be extremely traumatic. That is why I think all options should be on the table for rape victims (wherever they fall on this stupid "heirarchical" system some dip**** developed) and I do believe this should be paid for by insurance, no matter which insurance they have... ---------- Post added February-4th-2011 at 09:14 PM ---------- And one thing he specifically warned people who chose to write about the abortion issue was citing claims of women exhibiting mental problems after abortions. He says (I'm paraphrasing, here) that all of the reputable mental health studies have concluded that where those stories come from is from women who've had abortions being convinced by pro-lifers that they have done a horrible thing. That the regrets the studies find, were deliberately planted by the "researchers", who were trying to create that result. Now, that's the unsupported statement of some guy who's teaching freshman classes at a community college. Not exactly time to announce "[/thread]". And I've never heard it said, anywhere else. I think your professor is not as unbiased as he claims to be...at least not as unbiased as an ethics professor should be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Good question. I don't think there is a lot of literature out there on that, at least that I've come across.I didn't mean to insinuate that a rape victim having an abortion would wipe out any mental health repercussions of the rape. For some women, carrying the baby to term would not take as large of a toll on their mental status as other women. For some women, it might be extremely traumatic. That is why I think all options should be on the table for rape victims (wherever they fall on this stupid "heirarchical" system some dip**** developed) and I do believe this should be paid for by insurance, no matter which insurance they have... The situation sucks either way,which is why it is hard to do a study separating the effects of one and the other in the case of rape. My wife and I discuss it,with her feeling she could not bear to have a rapists child,and me not wanting a child that is part of her terminated(which is pointless since she cannot risk chilbirth anymore) thankfully she has not gotten raped,and that they account for only a small percentage of abortions......Life's choices are not easy in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [/color]I think your professor is not as unbiased as he claims to be...at least not as unbiased as an ethics professor should be... Should an ethics professor be unbiased? That's an interesting ethical question. I'd say that an ethics professor is supposed to be biased... after all, ethics is making a choice between right and wrong, good and evil, and finding that dividing line. Once you choose a side or try to define who's standing on what side you're most definitely biased... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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