Mickalino Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I've got some original songs I've written and recorded demos of, and copyrighted. And curious about the process of seeking out prospects who might want to buy the rights to the music. If I can't make a hit out of it, singing it myself, then maybe some bigger name artist may want to make it their own, and give a me a small chunk of change for permission for them to record and release it. Am I dreaming too big ? Or is this remotely realistic, and if so, what's the process of marketing song rights, for that purpose ? I've got one of my original songs on my website, if anyone wants to give a listen, and tell me if it's a hopeless cause or not : http://www.mickellis.net/Vocalist.html Any insight or knowledge on the subject it appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Given your posting history... not sure if serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Generally its a pretty tough scene to break into. One of the guys I work with is a 33 year old songwriter/vocalist with a back catalog of about 400 fully written-recorded songs. He is employed by a company and works with about 3 or 4 other guys writing songs for new artists. I couldn't get your songs on your website to work, but I will tell you that generally you will not be able to just pop in and say, "Hey, I wrote these songs- do you guys want to buy them?" It's just not that easy. You need to be able to produce the tracks (i.e play all of the instruments, record the vocals, mix the song, etc) and present the agencies with something so FULL and crisp that it could stand alone as a hit before an another artist even jumps on it. Basically there are thousands of people trying to do what you would like to do- and unless you know somebody at the top, or you have an extensive catalog of radio-friendly POP music that has been recorded in a professional studio- you are **** out of luck. My buddy has written songs for some of the most well-known Pop artists out there today, but his field is very exclusive. The agencies are looking to copy and re-create songs that have already done well. For example, they will call my friend and say "Hey, we need something by tomorrow that sounds like Katy Perry's new song... but, drop it to a D-minor. It's for a 15 year old girl. Thanks." Nothing is impossible though, and like I said- I couldn't even hear your music. But I am just dropping what little knowledge I have about the whole process because I work with artists/producers every day. Good luck my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks, man. By the way, what browser are you using ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 go find a bar or coffee shop with an open mic night and perform them. I work at a bar that doesn't hold 100 people, yet we've had Norah Jones, Mary Chappin Carpeter, CKY, WEEN, George Therogood, Penn and Teller and then some doing it over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo21 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Your song made me think of Paul Rudds 'celery man' http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c18ae7a0cf/inside-paul-rudd-s-computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Just the general tone and melody of it is so hackneyed and retro. Not awful for a first try but hardly a riff worthy of taking the time to set words to and record a demo. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Your song made me think of Paul Rudds 'celery man' http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c18ae7a0cf/inside-paul-rudd-s-computer Thanks.....I think :paranoid: Not awful for a first try but hardly a riff worthy of taking the time to set words to and record a demo. Actually, the lyrics came first, and the music came much later. Maybe I need to reverse my songwriting methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The one piece of advice I can give you based on my experience is that demos have to be perfect. Like Laron above said, producers don't have much imagination. They don't want to think about what it could be like fully produced and done by their artists. It's got to be broadcast ready and sound like a hit before it ever reaches them. Ironically, it has to be better if you're unknown than if you have sold a few. Really, the best way in is if you know someone. You have to network and utilize your resources. Remember, these guys will be beseiged and overwhelmed with stuff and people constantly coming to them wanting their break and that's true of the artist, producer, agent, and manager... and even some of the engineers. A lot of these guys are really cool, but jaded and cynical as hell. Their tired of being used and taken advantage of... worse, if they do something for you their putting their name and rep on the line. If you don't know anyone my suggestion is go for a third tier act. Someone who may be a little flattered that their getting attention and doesn't get quite the same flood of stuff. Still, do your homework. Make sure your work fits their style, motif, and is something that they can do. It's not a great song if it's not a great song for them and doesn't fit into their vocal range and styling perfectly. Lastly, please and thank you matter... at least they do for me. If someone does you a favor let them know that you appreciate it... be professional about it, but don't take anything for granted. People like acknowledgement and get annoyed pretty quickly if they feel like their just a tool for you. Thanks or thank you actually does mean something. Just don't go too far the other way. Don't fawn or be sooooooooooo grateful that they rethink if your good. Oh, and the most important thing... Never apologize for your work. I know a lot of people when they email me stories to cover or demos apologize or make excuses about this or that. The only thing that does is plant a seed of doubt in my mind and make me expect amateur or bad stuff. Let the work stand on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Actually, the lyrics came first, and the music came much later. Maybe I need to reverse my songwriting methods. I almost always start by string together a couple of solid riffs - intro/verse/chorus, etc.. Run through those transitions on a loop and cook up a vocal melody - hum, or "na na na" or whatever, even lyrics of a well known song. Fill in some new lyrics. Pentameter and alliteration are much more important than the actual words or meaning. Practice it and get it sounding good. From there, you can add a pre-chorus/bridge/interlude/reprise/whatever... But get the foundation first...the Riff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Singing is not your thing, dawg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Singing is not your thing, dawg. Listen to one of my better (cover) songs, and tell me if you still believe that..... It's on an audio hosting site, so just click on the WMA icon http://www.toofiles.com/en/oip/audios/wma/cold_as_ice.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I'm not clicking on any crappy link. Sorry. I heard you sing the anthem. And while I give you credit for getting up there and doing it, I can easily recognize that you don't have that much talent as a singer. And I'm not trying to be a jerk either. I just call it as I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 You're judging me based on singing the most difficult song on the planet, and the most butchered song on the planet, and one in which even my professional musician friends tell me I did an honorable job on that (one of whom sang the national anthem at an Evander Holyfield fight) But it's okay, I don't have to have your reinforcement. I just put it out there for your FYI. I wouldn't say that you're coming off "as a jerk", but rather quite closed minded IMO, as reflected by the "I aint clickin on no crappy link" comment. The fact that I have won multiple singing contests, and multiple pro gigs is enough for me to know that the conclusions you are jumping to, are not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullnelson9999 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I'm not clicking on any crappy link. Sorry. I heard you sing the anthem. And while I give you credit for getting up there and doing it, I can easily recognize that you don't have that much talent as a singer. And I'm not trying to be a jerk either. I just call it as I see it. If you don't have anything nice to say... ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 11:39 PM ---------- Mick, you can definitely sing. I just don't know if Cold as Ice is the best song for you. Maybe a song like "Oh Darling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Thanks, Nelson. I appreciate it. Honestly, I'm not looking for thunderous or fake, sugar-coated applause here, to stroke my ego. Just simple, un-biased, open-minded, constructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 You're judging me based on singing the most difficult song on the planet, and the most butchered song on the planet, and one in which even my professional musician friends tell me I did an honorable job on that (one of whom sang the national anthem at an Evander Holyfield fight)But it's okay, I don't have to have your reinforcement. I just put it out there for your FYI. I wouldn't say that you're coming off "as a jerk", but rather quite closed minded IMO, as reflected by the "I aint clickin on no crappy link" comment. The fact that I have won multiple singing contests, and multiple pro gigs is enough for me to know that the conclusions you are jumping to, are not true. Dude, the "crappy link" comment was nothing more than I don't click on just any link I don't feel comfortable with. And I'm no musical expert, but I wouldn't really think the anthem is a really difficult song to perform. Everyone should know the words. And its not like you have to hit some really high notes or anything. Probably the hardest thing about the song (most songs, for that matter) is the pitch. Ironically, that was one of your main problems with it. Again, I give you alot of credit for just getting up there and doing it. But, honestly, you're nothing more than a decent karoke singer. ---------- Post added April-26th-2011 at 02:30 AM ---------- If you don't have anything nice to say...---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 11:39 PM ---------- Mick, you can definitely sing. I just don't know if Cold as Ice is the best song for you. Maybe a song like "Oh Darling." nelson, I know what a good singer sounds like. He's not that. And what if everyone went around telling him he was really good, when he isn't? How is that helping him? I'm just being honest with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Dude, the "crappy link" comment was nothing more than I don't click on just any link I don't feel comfortable That's your real reason for that comment ? After 10 years of integrity on this board, you think I'd post a harmful link on this site ? And I'm no musical expert, but I wouldn't really think the anthem is a really difficult song to perform. Everyone should know the words. And its not like you have to hit some really high notes or anything. Probably the hardest thing about the song (most songs, for that matter) is the pitch. Ironically, that was one of your main problems with it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the other comments, but the above quote is flat out wrong. The lyrics and pitch are far from the only difficult aspects. It's common knowledge that the song requires incredible range and high notes. The fact that you say there's no high notes, is mind-boggling that you have that opinion.....Take another listen to these lyrics, and then tell me whether they are not "high notes" : "And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air," "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave " nelson, I know what a good singer sounds like. He's not that. And what if everyone went around telling him he was really good, when he isn't? How is that helping him? I'm just being honest with the guy. And what about the contrary ? What if you bash a singer who had raw potential if he only had more proper training, and you end up being the guy that discourages him from meeting his potential, all because of an opinion you have, that may not be shared by the "experts" or "the masses" Of course you shouldn't sugar-coat it, but don't "doom" a singer either, because your opinion is not the final say in that man's career. Many professional athletes and entertainers were told they couldn't make it at one point, and the person went on to prove them wrong. Find a reasonable, intelligent, and humble middle-ground, especially after you admitted you're not a musical expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullnelson9999 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 nelson, I know what a good singer sounds like. He's not that. And what if everyone went around telling him he was really good, when he isn't? How is that helping him? I'm just being honest with the guy. I said he could sing, not that he was a great singer. I hear him and think of what he could be, not what he is now. I think the foundation is there, he just needs to expand on it. I think there's a difference between being honest, and flat out trying to ruin someone's confidence. You did the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_e_b Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Mick has average singing talent. I've listened to his version of the National Anthem, the original song from his website, and his Cold As Ice Cover. He has trouble sustaining notes a bit, as you can hear his pitch waning and varying erratically at times. I'm normally not one who cares how perfect a singers voice is, but he lacks the most important singing trait in my opinion. . . soulfulness. I think the best way to describe Mick's singing is to say that he has a karaoke voice. . . In the end, I'm sure it's exponentially better than anything Bubble Screen could do. I suggest downloading Anteres Autotune so you can track your pitch and see what notes you're actually hitting and how well you're sustaining them. I'll never recommend having it correct pitch for you, but it can be a very useful tool in helping notice your flaws so that you can more efficiently train your voice. A few questions for you, Mick: 1) Are those real instruments in your song "Flatterin Phrases"? 2) How do you record your vocals? Do you add any reverb or other effects? 3) What's your approach to writing lyrics? Do you care about what you write, or are you just trying to write something catchy? 4) Do you have any experience with creative writing and/or poetry? 5) Do you feel like you're using your natural voice, or are you trying to mimic singers you admire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 5) Do you feel like you're using your natural voice, or are you trying to mimic singers you admire? This is key. For years I was mainly a backing vocalist with a variety of pro bands (original music) and due to a lead singer quitting on the eve of a US tour, got thrust into the lead role. During that tour, we had the good fortune to be working with an amazing singer who had been around for a while. After one particular show where my band covered a song by one of his contemporaries (and rivals) he told me to stop trying to sound like that guy when we did that song. He said I needed to sound like me on everything I sang. Take that advice to heart. Also the advice about who you know is dead-on. The kind of job you'd like is very exclusive and extremely difficult to get. Good luck and keep writing/playing/singing. It's good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 A few questions for you, Mick:1) Are those real instruments in your song "Flatterin Phrases"? 2) How do you record your vocals? Do you add any reverb or other effects? 3) What's your approach to writing lyrics? Do you care about what you write, or are you just trying to write something catchy? 4) Do you have any experience with creative writing and/or poetry? 5) Do you feel like you're using your natural voice, or are you trying to mimic singers you admire? 1) No, they're all synthesized. A poor man's demo. If I had a band, or could afford studio musicians, I would have used them 2) Just a little reverb, and "double-layer" the vocals (if that's the correct term) on certain points. 3) Definitely put deep thought into what I write. The complete opposite of catchy. In fact, I think I get too complicated in my structure of the song, making it difficult for listeners to learn and "catch" it. 4) Years ago, in grade school. Since then, I've just done it on the side. To be honest, my typical motivation for writing a song or a poem is to impress a girl, which happened a lot until recently, when I started to feel like it made me look like a sappy wuss. 5) Definitely not using my "natural voice" because honestly, I don't feel like I've "found" my natural voice. On the other hand, I am pretty good at impersonating or mimicing, so that's what I end up doing on covers. But since I mimic so well, it does allow me to do a diverse group of artists. This is key. For years I was mainly a backing vocalist with a variety of pro bands (original music) and due to a lead singer quitting on the eve of a US tour, got thrust into the lead role. During that tour, we had the good fortune to be working with an amazing singer who had been around for a while. After one particular show where my band covered a song by one of his contemporaries (and rivals) he told me to stop trying to sound like that guy when we did that song. He said I needed to sound like me on everything I sang. Take that advice to heart. Also the advice about who you know is dead-on. The kind of job you'd like is very exclusive and extremely difficult to get. Good luck and keep writing/playing/singing. It's good for the soul. Thanks to both of you for the useful tips. Unfortunately, like I was telling Sean, I don't feel like I've "found my natural voice". I guess that's part of getting proper and formal vocal training - -something I've never done. I'm basically a self-taught singer. And it shows in my flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I'm at work so I can't listen to your tune yet - but simply reading through the thread I have a few comments. 1. Somebody mentioned that a catchy vocal melody can be more important than the content. This is true. Just take a listen to music in general. 2. Find your voice and play around with it. No such thing as a bad singer, really. It's subjective. I'm a huge Dylan & Tom Waits fan. Some people think Tom Waits sounds like the cookie monster...but I see it a different way. Your voice is an instrument - play with it. Formal training is not necessary. Confidence is. 3. The music industry is monumentally different than 10 or 15 years ago. Everybody wants to create music, become popular, write a hit, etc...which is AWESOME. But, unfortunately, that means you gotta wade through a lot of crap to find the gold. You need to work with a recording studio to get these down and as polished as possible...either do it yourself or find a find and pay them $100 or something. 4. Promote the crap out of it. Facebook, Myspace, BandCamp, ReverbNation, Purevolume, iTunes, etc etc. Link all of these together. Networking is essential in this business. If a friend of a friend knows this guy from a studio, your chances are better. Networking my friend! I'll listen to the tune later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Thanks to both of you for the useful tips. Unfortunately, like I was telling Sean, I don't feel like I've "found my natural voice". I guess that's part of getting proper and formal vocal training - -something I've never done. I'm basically a self-taught singer. And it shows in my flaws. No problem Mick - here's a few bonus tips for a fellow Skins fan. It's not easy finding your natural voice but you can do it without lessons. I did it when I was a teenager and sang lead on half the songs of a punk band I was in at the time. Most were original so it was easier because there was nothing to model the singing on for those songs. Then, as I got more serious I found myself doing mostly backing stuff, and I lost the "vision" of what my true voice was, until the story above. I'm self-taught vocally too. One thing I found very helpful was learning vocal lines on other instruments - sax, bass, guitar or keyboards. Many singers don't remember that their voice is an instrument just like a guitar or piano. It's important to strive for distinct pitches that correspond to notes on an instrument. It might help to sing and play the lines together (while listening carefully) to sync them up. I used to carry around a pitch fork and try to match the A440 in my head or with my voice, then strike the fork and see how close I was. After a while I was able to do it 99% of the time, and that really helped with my singing pitch. One experiment you might try is to record some covers and consciously alter the vocals so that they don't sound anything like those on the original recordings. Experiment with that until you find some common characteristics (like how you phrase, articulate, "growl," or sustain notes), then focus on singing with those characteristics consistently. Take chances on purpose. Remember that any "flaws" you might have can become things that are unique to your sound. There are a lot of singers people really like who are technically crap, but who have a great sound. Play around and don't try to be spot-on perfect - loosen up a bit and have fun!!! Here's an example where I sing lead and have to bend notes and jump around with the melody because of the way it was written (click song 3 preview): http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/allstonians3. In this instance I'm treating the vocal melody line a bit loosely on purpose - throwing in some bends and sound changes. Try that kind of thing if you do attempt some experimental covers recording. Even if you still struggle with finding your voice, all that recording and messing around should be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Listen to Leadbelly. He will provide all the inspiration you need :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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