jflow78 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 But that little moment of having Al Sounders as the OC and all the hype surrounding it!!! Priceless. Some one with great searching skills and with a lot of time on your hands.......go search that out and bump those threads! LOL I think you're absolutely right, it's nearly as hilarious as when the Tuna was fired and Wade came in and everyone, media and all, were screaming "Championship!" It's nearly as funny as last offseason when the Cowboys had their name printed on their trophy, but you brought that up. Anyway, I think it's hilarious that, because Campbell has been in a similar offense before, everyone's assuming he's going to be great. Wasn't he in Zorn's offense for two years in a row? He looked like he loved the dump pass more than ever that 2nd year. Especially on 3rd and long. I think Campbell might have slumped in his chair when he heard the news and said, "Aww ****, why me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ^^^Which is absolutely fair, since he'd been a backup with no game-time reps for how long? You're just nit-picking, right now. Did I say it wasn't fair? No. What I did say, though, was that Collins' production was not "jarring" when compared to JC from the moment he took over for Campbell. In fact, it was pretty mediocre until the 4th quarter. ---------- Post added January-21st-2011 at 12:02 PM ---------- Talk about your ultimate nit-pick. Fine, it took him a couple possessions to shake off 10 years of rust before he was able to easily outplay our first-round draft pick/four-year veteran/two-year starter. Again, not nit-picking...but I find it hilarious how many around here absolutely NEED to have Collins becoming Superman from the very first snap after replacing Campbell lol...I had this discussion a year or so ago with a few ES members who were insisting that Collins was "night and day" as soon as he stepped on the field. Actually providing facts and truths about his play against the Bears apparently disrupted their memories and the myth they created in their heads about the situation at the time. I even quoted some posts of what Skins fans were saying about Collins in the game day thread during his "jarringly" productive start lol ...it was NOT pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Did I say it wasn't fair? No.What I did say, though, was that Collins' production was not "jarring" when compared to JC from the moment he took over for Campbell. In fact, it was pretty mediocre until the 4th quarter. ---------- Post added January-21st-2011 at 12:02 PM ---------- Again, not nit-picking...but I find it hilarious how many around here absolutely NEED to have Collins becoming Superman from the very first snap after replacing Campbell lol...I had this discussion a year or so ago with a few ES members who were insisting that Collins was "night and day" as soon as he stepped on the field. Actually providing facts and truths about his play against the Bears apparently disrupted their memories and the myth they created in their heads about the situation at the time. I even quoted some posts of what Skins fans were saying about Collins in the game day thread during his "jarringly" productive start lol ...it was NOT pretty. OK, but his body of work (the 3.75 games) in the regular season was jarringly different than Campbell's wasn't it? Even if, as you noted, I was wrong with just how quickly it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Campbell couldn't master the 700 page play book in DC. What makes you all think he can do it now? The Al Saunders offense requires an accurate QB with a 6th sense for timing and trust with the receivers. It's very similar if not the same as the Coryell offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 OK, but his body of work (the 3.75 games) in the regular season was jarringly different than Campbell's wasn't it? Even if, as you noted, I was wrong with just how quickly it started. Definitely, and I even said that Collins was "damn near perfect" in the 4th quarter. I just tend to have a problem with the unnecessary over-romanticizing of Skins players, I guess lol...not that what you said was necessarily in that category, but like I said I had this discussion with several in the past who absolutely insisted that Collins was on fire from the get-go. I couldn't understand the need to wash away Collins' mediocre play...it's not like acknowledging it would in any way diminish what he accomplished that year. And for the record, I also tend to take this view with Chip Lohmiller lol ...he was good, but some on here over-romanticize his years as the Skins' PK as if he rarely missed and constantly won games single-handedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Definitely, and I even said that Collins was "damn near perfect" in the 4th quarter. I just tend to have a problem with the unnecessary over-romanticizing of Skins players, I guess lol...not that what you said was necessarily in that category, but like I said I had this discussion with several in the past who absolutely insisted that Collins was on fire from the get-go. I couldn't understand the need to wash away Collins' mediocre play...it's not like acknowledging it would in any way diminish what he accomplished that year. And for the record, I also tend to take this view with Chip Lohmiller lol ...he was good, but some on here over-romanticize his years as the Skins' PK as if he rarely missed and constantly won games single-handedly. Fair enough... I completely agree with you about our two storied kickers. I watched them play and can look up their stats. It's amazing to me that they missed as often as they did! Hell, Mosley missed 1 out of every 3 kicks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Fair enough...I completely agree with you about our two storied kickers. I watched them play and can look up their stats. It's amazing to me that they missed as often as they did! Hell, Mosley missed 1 out of every 3 kicks!! Mosley was my hero in high school because I loved that he still kicked in that straight-ahead fashion...I played soccer in high school but I loathed "soccer-style" kickers for some reason lol... But decades later when a player's career stats are easily available with the push of a keyboard button, I, too, was floored at how much Mosley actually missed. In my young memories Mosley was automatic. Where the hell that came from I dunno ...My guess is that, like Riggins, players like Mosley came through when the team absolutely needed them to so many times that I stopped imagining the times where they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateSkins Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Campbell was too dumb to get this offense the first time around. What makes anyone think the second time will be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 damn you and your logic, putting me in my place It was funny for me....for at least 10 minutes, but now i come back and see this and it isn't that funny anymore. Have a nice weekend pjfootballer..........who ya got this weekend. my hear would like to see the Jets VS the Packers (as much as i hate the pack, my hate for Cutler is way BIGGER) , but my Brain is telling me Steelers VS Packers! Imma a Rex Ryan fan......love that mans defense, and look to model my own playbooks after his. As much as I would like to look back on the last 19 years of our futility and laugh, most of the time I want to cry. I can see fans of other teams laughing at us. We've been the Cardinals of the NFC East since the shift to 4 divisions. I think alot of Skins fans are just so tired of being the laughingstock of the division, even Al Saunders held out some hope. In a couple of weeks, I'll be dusting off my 3 Redskins SB Game CDs to start watching. It's all I've got in the past 20 years. I was 24 when we won our last SB. I turn 43 next Wednesday. Sigh!!!! Jets and Packers for me. Tired of the Steelers. Not a big fan of the Bears since they were just in it a few short seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Jackson's offense was probably heavily influenced by Al Saunders' offense, so there probably won't be much difference for Campbell. I'm glad he's finally getting some of the stability that he's lacked for most of his football career. Hopefully, he does something with it. I actually thought toward the end of that season he was on the edge of breaking out. While he did make some critical mistakes, I also thought there was a lot good in the games against Philly, Dallas and Tampa. Course, then Saunders left, Campbell was put into a system he wasn't really suited for, and the OL deteriorated. It would have been interesting to see how things would have been different if Gibbs stayed another year. It is kinda ironic.I didn't think it went that bad the first go-round though, Jason was a young QB and was putting up decent numbers for a QB getting his first NFL starts. Prior to Campbell's injury i thought things were starting to click and Al was opening up the offense more. I think Al is a good OC and i liked his offenses in the past, in many respects he's a more accomplished playcaller then Hugh Jackson. If the Raiders can get some improved WR play i could see the Raiders having an even better offense then last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 M I, too, was floored at how much Mosley actually missed. In my young memories Mosley was automatic. Where the hell that came from I dunno ...My guess is that, like Riggins, players like Mosley came through when the team absolutely needed them to so many times that I stopped imagining the times where they didn't. It's because in 1982 he was perfect and made like 20 straight and won us 4 or 5 of our games pretty much by himself. The next year we blew everybody out so nobody remembers that he missed 1/3 of his kicks that year. Hell, I am pretty sure we'd have been 16-0 if he made a couple more kicks in 1983, then we would have gotten blown out in the SB anyway. ---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 09:59 AM ---------- Looks like Campbell will finally have a familiar offense for the first time in a decade. He was in Zorn's offense for 2 years straight and didn't improve and bringing in Saunders just means a different offense than last year. I wonder if Saunders will bring out the Cliff Notes version of the 700 page playbook for him again? ---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 10:03 AM ---------- just seeing the name Al Sounders....and in connection with being an "OC" makes me smile at how the reaction was to many Skins fans, when he was hired as the OC here, and Gregg Williams was the DC.........it was one of those "put the SB trophy in our case" moments. hilarious! It should be funny to go read Raiders boards now. Especially since we've already seen what Candle can do here for 50+ starts and I'm sure they think Saunders is going to turn him into a Pro Bowler like Trent Green, and Kurt Warner, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibarramedia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Jackson's offense was probably heavily influenced by Al Saunders' offense, so there probably won't be much difference for Campbell. I'm glad he's finally getting some of the stability that he's lacked for most of his football career. Hopefully, he does something with it. Campbell couldn't master the 700 page play book in DC. What makes you all think he can do it now?The Al Saunders offense requires an accurate QB with a 6th sense for timing and trust with the receivers. It's very similar if not the same as the Coryell offense. Al Saunders runs the Air Coryell offense. The same offense that Norv Turner, Cam Cameron, Mike Martz , Jason Garrett and Brian Schottenheimer use. Same offense that the SanFrancisco 49ers of Mike Noland and Mike Singletary used. Norv Turner learned the offense from longtime Coryell assistant, Ernie Zampese. Turner's take on the Coryell system turned around the career of Hall of Fame QB Troy Aikman and has proven to be very successful with talented high draft picks struggling with the complexities of the NFL, such as Alex Smith. Turner' variant is not the most robust flavor of Coryell offense. It is a very sound, QB friendly scheme that favors taking controlled chances, like quicker midrange post passes to WRs off play action rather than slower developing passes that leave QBs exposed. It is almost exclusively run out of the pro set. Turner favors a more limited palette of plays than Coryell and most other Coryell disciples, instead insisting on precise execution. The Martz variant is a much more robust offense with a more complex playbook. It is a much more aggressive passing offense, frequently deploying pre-snap motion and shifts, with the run often forgotten. There is much less of a focus on play action. The Martz variant favors an elusive feature back who can catch the ball over the power runners the Turner scheme favors. Martz credits his influences on his variation of the offensive system to Sid Gillman and Don Coryell. Martz learned the so called 3 digit system the offense is famous for with how the plays are called from Turner when they were both in Washington. The Rams set a new NFL record for total offensive yards in 2000, with 7,335. 5,492 of those were passing yards, also a new NFL team record. Martz tends to favor a 3 WR set with more elusive players, a third receiver and the Half back filling the role of middle receivers that TEs & FBs fulfill in the Turner offense. The Martz offense works best with two elite WRs with top speed. Unlike the Turner variant, due to the complexity of the Martz offense, the QBs who execute it best are often the more intelligent QBs who intuitively get what Martz is trying to do, not the elite athlete whose team's personnel department might favor drafting with a high draft pick. Al Saunders was the former WR coach under Don Coryell in San Diego and succeeded him as head coach of the Chargers. The Al Saunders variant is heavily influenced by Coryell and Saunder's former boss, former Coryell assistant and 2 time Redskins coach Joe Gibbs, who's Ace formation (single back, 2 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 H back) was immensely effective in the 1980s. The Saunders variant is a more conservative variant than the Martz version, but also quite complex. It is better suited for a veteran QB. It does not insist on size at WR or HB like the Turner variant and as such has difficulties in short yardage and red zone situations. It does not require a pair of dominant fast WRs like the Martz system and is not as aggressive attacking down the field and as such it does not score as many points as the Martz system. It is a more sound variant than the Martz scheme, offering a little more blocking and more run support for the QB. The Saunders variant pulls in many Coryell concepts that the Turner system eliminated in favor of simplicity. Cam Cameron's version of the Air Coryell offense is the closest to Norv Turner's. Same thing with Ernie Zampese, though Norv was a much better play caller than Ernie. Campbell should have some familiarity with htis because he worked with Al in DC, and he obviously worked under this offense last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Todd Collins, your career finale awaits out West ..... Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 This must be maddening to Campbell. He must've thought he was done with that 700-page playbook for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Have a nice weekend pjfootballer..........who ya got this weekend. my hear would like to see the Jets VS the Packers (as much as i hate the pack, my hate for Cutler is way BIGGER) , but my Brain is telling me Steelers VS Packers! Imma a Rex Ryan fan......love that mans defense, and look to model my own playbooks after his. See, the hype of coaches happens to all of us. :pfft: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/561857-delusional-is-funny-but-sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The "second Collins came in"? Not quite.When Collins came into the Bears game to replace Campbell, he did the following: - Incomplete pass - 4 yard completion - Sack and fumbled, giving the ball back to the Bears around the 50 yard line Collins was bailed out, though, by Shawn Springs intercepting Greise and taking the ball all the way back to the Bears' 20 yard line. Collins then threw a 20-yard TD after that. Collins started out the 3rd quarter with a pass behind the LOS to Portis, who then ran 55 yards down to inside the Bears' 5 yard line. That's not exactly a "jarring" start to his playing time in that game lol ...Collins did start to shine in the 4th quarter, where he was damn near perfect. But up until then he was pedestrian, at best. Picky, Picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 just seeing the name Al Sounders....and in connection with being an "OC" makes me smile at how the reaction was to many Skins fans, when he was hired as the OC here, and Gregg Williams was the DC.........it was one of those "put the SB trophy in our case" moments. hilarious! maybe true. but i was on a cowboys message board when they got roy williams from detroit. the exact quote was 'jerry just bought us a championship!". classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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