LA Times: House passes immigration Dream Act

[nonniey]

I hope the Senate passes this. I don't think it should be a problem granting legal immigration rights to kids who grew up in the United States, especially if they serve in the military.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-1209-congress-20101209,0,7164104.story

"Reporting from Washington — The House passed a landmark youth immigration bill known as the Dream Act on Wednesday night largely along party lines, but the measure faces a tough test in the Senate as Democrats struggle to pass priority legislation in the waning days of this Congress.

Eight Republicans joined in approving the bill, 216 to 198. Thirty-eight Democrats voted no. The measure offers a path to citizenship for young people who were brought to this country illegally before age 16 and who have enrolled in college or entered the military........"

[Beans]

WASHINGTON – Democrats have delayed a showdown vote on legislation carving out a path to legal status for foreign-born youngsters brought to this country illegally.

Facing GOP Objections, Democrats are putting aside the so-called Dream Act. They're short of the 60 votes needed to advance the measure.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101209/ap_on_go_co/us_immigration_students

Thank God. They should be deported, along with their parents.

No vacancy.

[Maximus71]

Kids shouldnt be left behind when their parents are sent back, what a moronic idea!

[Predicto]

Kids shouldnt be left behind when their parents are sent back, what a moronic idea!

They aren't talking about "youngsters." They are talking about people who were youngsters when their parents snuck in to the country, were raised here, and now are grown up and willing to serve in the military to prove their "American-ness."

[nonniey]

Believe the bill refers to kids that have grown up in the United States already. If not then yeah I might have a problem with it.

[Predicto]

I hope the Senate passes this. I don't think it should be a problem granting legal immigration rights to kids who grew up in the United States, especially if they serve in the military.

I'm surprised (and impressed) to see you post this.

[JMS]

They aren't talking about "youngsters." They are talking about people who were youngsters when their parents snuck in to the country, were raised here, and now are grown up and willing to serve in the military to prove their "American-ness."

Predicto, military service is certainly a path to citizenship today. It's been that way for decades..

This is not for folks serving in the military. This is as you say for children brought here illegally by hteir parrents and who are now americanized and most have known no other home but the US.

I think their is also a provision for folks who have graduated from American Universities ( might be elite universities) being given citizenship; for the asking after they graduate...

I think the former is sad but still wrong. You don't give somebody something of value for breaking the law. Not if you ever want those laws enforced. I remember watching pregnant women dashing across the boarder in labor in order to have their babies in the United States. Putting both mother and baby at risk. Thinking to myself this is the United States fault for having a stupid law which rewards this behavior... The Dream Act is another example of this type of stupidity.

The real solution is to reform immigration. Folks should have that debate and stop trying to decide the issue without having that debate.

The latter provision for elite graduates is just crazy. Creating a slide for citizenship for "elites" is idiotic. First off I know too many ivy league grads who are substitue elementary school teachers to take their catagorization as elites seriously. But basically a citizenship is worth what you put into it. If you hand one out to everybody who graduates from Harvard, you deminish the value of the citizenship by giving htem to people who couldn't care less, while denying that spot to somebody who is deserving.. I would much rather have a new citizen who had to make a decision and maybe even a sacrifices to obtain his status.

[Predicto]

Predicto, military service is certainly a path to citizenship today. It's been that way for decades.

This is not for folks serving in the military. This is as you say for children brought here illegally by hteir parrents and who are now americanized and most have known no other home but the US.

AND who are willing to join the military now (or go to college and get good grades) to validate their American-osity.

Their parents did something wrong, but the kids were not involved in that decision, and were raised as Americans. This is a chance to let them prove they deserve to stay.

Am I missing something?

[GoSkins561]

Mandatory military service should be a requirement for anyone that comes here illegally, if the illegal wants citizenship.

[JMS]

AND who are willing to join the military now (or go to college and get good grades) to validate their American-osity.

Their parents did something wrong, but they were not involved in that decision, and were raised as Americans. This is a chance to let them prove they deserve to stay.

Am I missing something?

Not AND..but OR... It's two different groups... Kids of illegals and Foreign nationals attending elite Universities.... Correct me if I'm wrong but that was my impression.

You can go into the military today without citizenship and apply for citizenship once you recieve your honorable discharge. Military service has long been a path to citizenship. Discussing those programs in the same breadth with the "Dream Act" is misleading... I'm sure that's an option for graduates of elite schools too....

Those programs are in place and have been in place for a very long time.

The "Dream Act" is primarily for the children of illegals not born here, who have grown up essentially as Americans; but are still illegal. And I believe to a lesser extent for kids graduating from elite american universities giving them a stream lined path to citizenship.

Predicto.. any idea of how many kids we are talking about here?

[twa]

Mandatory military service should be a requirement for anyone that comes here illegally, if the illegal wants citizenship.

I agree..or at the minimum, college and a internship serving the country in some fashion..

College alone is not enough,and rewards illegals.

[Larry]

I don't see any details about the actual law, so I'm going to assume that it's the one I heard discussed, last year. The way it was explained last year, it would permit a path to citizenship to people who:

Were brought to this country before the age of 12.

Are now at least 18.

Graduated High School in the US.

And have either:

Received at least a 2-year college degree, or

Are willing to serve in the US military

I don't got a problem with that. These kids already are Americans.

[JMS]

These kids already are Americans.

I thought it was 16, brought here when they were 16 or younger.. which is a minor caviot.

The problem is when you have a law which is opennly flaunted as our immigration laws are. If you reward the folks breaking the law; you will never have any hope of enforcing that law. And really the folks proposing this "Dream Act" (not isolated to either party)... don't really have any intention to enforce our laws.

They are bending over backwards to avoid enforcing the laws because their is no political up side in that...

Bottom line the only "justice" to be had in the illegal immigration topic is to reform the disfunctional system and then enforce that new law. This "Dream Act" just gives more incentive to people living in poor nations to break our laws. Thus it is a well meaning way for folks to become part of the problem and continue to ignore the solution.

[Larry]

You can go into the military today without citizenship . . .

Uh, you sure about that?

I have trouble believing that our military allows non-citizens to sign up, even if they're legal non-citizens.

[DjTj]

Predicto, military service is certainly a path to citizenship today. It's been that way for decades.

Illegal immigrants have never been allowed to enlist. Currently, if you are a legal immigrant, enlisting in the military will fast track you towards citizenship, but the DREAM Act would do something new by allowing certain illegal immigrants to become legal by joining the military.

I think the former is sad but still wrong. You don't give somebody something of value for breaking the law. Not if you ever want those laws enforced. I remember watching pregnant women dashing across the boarder in labor in order to have their babies in the United States. Putting both mother and baby at risk. Thinking to myself this is the United States fault for having a stupid law which rewards this behavior... The Dream Act is another example of this type of stupidity.

The real solution is to reform immigration. Folks should have that debate and stop trying to decide the issue without having that debate.

I agree that the DREAM Act is only a stopgap, but even if we get comprehensive immigration reform, we will still have to decide what we want to do with these people (who were brought into the United States by their parents, grew up here and did the right things by going to school and graduating). I don't think there is any reasonable solution other than to give them a path to citizenship.

The latter provision for elite graduates is just crazy. Creating a slide for citizenship for "elites" is idiotic.

Our entire immigration system favors elites. Employment-based green cards and H-1Bs strongly favor those with advanced degrees.

First off I know too many ivy league grads who are substitue elementary school teachers to take their catagorization as elites seriously. But basically a citizenship is worth what you put into it. If you hand one out to everybody who graduates from Harvard, you deminish the value of the citizenship by giving htem to people who couldn't care less, while denying that spot to somebody who is deserving.. I would much rather have a new citizen who had to make a decision and maybe even a sacrifices to obtain his status.

I don't know why you would characterize these people as those who "couldn't care less." If they don't care about it, they don't have to apply. Also, it's important to note that the DREAM Act doesn't hand out automatic citizenship to everyone in these categories. You must apply before you turn 30, you must pass a background check, you'll have to pay more than $2,000 in fees, and when you're approved, you don't get citizenship, you get a green card. That means you'll have to stay out of legal trouble for another five years before you can become a citizen. People who go through that process wouldn't be people who "couldn't care less."

Also, the DREAM Act would operate outside of the per-country quotas, so it would not deny a spot to someone else that is deserving.

[twa]

I don't got a problem with that. These kids already are Americans.

You turn American by osmosis?

I have no problem giving these kids a path,but not simply for a 2 yr degree

[Maximus71]

They aren't talking about "youngsters." They are talking about people who were youngsters when their parents snuck in to the country, were raised here, and now are grown up and willing to serve in the military to prove their "American-ness."

Then I take back what I posted, I thought it was for little ones!

[twa]

Uh, you sure about that?

I have trouble believing that our military allows non-citizens to sign up, even if they're legal non-citizens.

Our military has done so for ages.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/noncitizen.htm

Question: Can a non-U.S. Citizen join the United States Military?

Answer: Yes. A non-citizen can enlist in the military. However, federal law prohibits non-citizens from becoming commission or warrant officers.

In order for a non-citizen to enlist in the military, he/she must first be a legal immigrant (with a green card), permamently residing in the United States. It's important to note that the military cannot and will not assist in the immigration process. One must immigrate first, using normal immigration quotas and procedures, and -- once they've established an address in the United States -- they can find a recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

For details, see our article, Enlistment Qualification Standards

[JMS]

Uh, you sure about that?

I have trouble believing that our military allows non-citizens to sign up, even if they're legal non-citizens.

Yeah not even sure you have to be docuemnted. The military will get you your documentation if you sign up, and if you serve so many years honorable their is a path to citizenship. We've had that for decades.

[NavyDave]

Ahh LameDuck shenanigans Part one.

Hopefully the Senate stops this nonsense.

How about securing the border first so other 25 year old to "29" year old kids do not sneak in and claim they have been here for over a decade?

No one with a brain is going to believe this is only about the kids. It is always talked up like its just one little thing and we should not worry about the incremental steps to full amnesty using this measure as the foot in the door.

Depending on what versions you have seen on the net the "kids" are given 10 years to join the military or go to school and we know how proactive our government is when it comes to rounding up illegal aliens.

Once legal liberals will snivel that these kids have a right to push for their illegal alien parents and spouses (if he or she is not a citizen) to become citizens and their siblings in other countries should be allowed to join them.

[JMS]

Illegal immigrants have never been allowed to enlist. Currently, if you are a legal immigrant, enlisting in the military will fast track you towards citizenship, but the DREAM Act would do something new by allowing certain illegal immigrants to become legal by joining the military.

I understand the distinction now. I think TWA also made this point.

I agree that the DREAM Act is only a stopgap, but even if we get comprehensive immigration reform, we will still have to decide what we want to do with these people (who were brought into the United States by their parents, grew up here and did the right things by going to school and graduating). I don't think there is any reasonable solution other than to give them a path to citizenship.

There is really nothing reasonable about this. Their parrents put these kids in a terrible situation and we are going to reward both of them for doing so. We are going to take responsibility for this irresponsible breaking of our laws by the parents... That's not reasonable. You can argue it's the right thing to do; I don't think you can argue it's reasonable. The distiction is if you do this for 2000 kids in 2010 you will be doing it for 20,000 kids in 2020. Rewarding forlks for breaking the law is never reasonable, and it rarely leads to less suffering or justice in the long term..

Coarse nobody is looking at the long term.. Which is why the proponents of illegal immigration are smoking us and will continue to smoke us.

Our entire immigration system favors elites. Employment-based green cards and H-1Bs strongly favor those with advanced degrees. I don't know why you would characterize these people as those who "couldn't care less." If they don't care about it, they don't have to apply. Also, it's important to note that the DREAM Act doesn't hand out automatic citizenship to everyone in these categories.

I could be wrong here again, but I though they put a provision in the dream act to reward elite college graduates who were here studying legally. Unrelated to the first catagory of applicants...

That's what I'm arguing against..

I agree with you the H1B program is whacked broken and verges on the absurd with regard to policy. It doesn't really reward elite colleges though; It rewards / favors folks who have "skills" we find desireable regardless of the elite nature of there education.

Anyway... this "Dream Act" could happen. I'm against it just because I believe it creates more problems than it solves.. orders of magnatued more problems. It's knee jerk legislature based upon the injustice of the day, blind to the injustice of tomorrow it will cause. Congress doesn't have the will to deal with the real problem so they will just do these little feel good bills whcih ultimately make the problem worse.....

I'm looking forward to absorbing Mexico in 2030.

[Predicto]

Never mind. Point has been covered.

[JMS]

Ahh LameDuck shenanigans Part one.

Hopefully the Senate stops this nonsense.

:doh: Yeah because the Republicans have had such a strong track record for standing up for our laws on immigration?

Both parties pander to illegal immigrants. Hispanics are the #1 minority in the country and both party would like to fold them into their constituency.

[nonniey]

Uh, you sure about that?

I have trouble believing that our military allows non-citizens to sign up, even if they're legal non-citizens.

Legal residents can join the military, even if they're non-citizens.

[NavyDave]

:doh: Yeah because the Republicans have had such a strong track record for standing up for our laws on immigration?

Both parties pander to illegal immigrants. Hispanics are the #1 minority in the country and both party would like to fold them into their constituency.

Never said republicans didn't, which is one of the reasons a lot of us voted none of the above in 2008 by staying home. And as I have said I'm conservative I'll support the true conservatives of either party. Illegal aliens also have Africans in that group so I guess I should be labeled a sell out huh?