70/80s era: Was Jack Kent Cooke more lenient towards white players versus blacks?!

[ddub52]

"Was Jack Kent Cooke more lenient towards white players versus blacks?"

Your response doesn't match the question lol

Your response to my post would lead me to believe that you only read the title of the thread and not the original post "lol"

[Enzo]

I guess your friend hasn't figured out that for years that the Cowboys are the favorite team of America's rednecks.

[nebster21]

Lock than block.

[Dan T.]

Regarding race and John Riggins, think about this. If a black Redskins player had been in the news for getting drunk at a banquet, drunkenly telling Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor to "loosen up, Sandy baby," then passing out under the banquet table, would Washington fans and the media have handled it the same way we did with lovable drunk Riggo?

[ouvan59]

Regarding race and John Riggins, think about this. If a black Redskins player had been in the news for getting drunk at a banquet, drunkenly telling Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor to "loosen up, Sandy baby," then passing out under the banquet table, would Washington fans and the media have handled it the same way we did with lovable drunk Riggo?

Dexter Manley is still beloved in Washington.

[jflow78]

I never understand African-American's reasoning for rooting for the Cowboys because the Redskins were the last team to integrate. Dallas didn't integrate their schools until after the Skins integrated their roster.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Well, that and, it's pretty clear he loved him some crazy bolivian lady, so he wasn't a white supremacist or anything.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

As my nickname suggests, I was a Kelvin Bryant fan. However, the suggestion that playing Riggins (an eventual Hall of Famer) over Bryant indicates some sort of racial bias is too dumb to merit serious discussion.

Anything detailing The Redskins merits serious discussion. I probably did not make note of it in the beginning, but I was born in 1983, so I have always tried to follow-up on the history of this team because I'm just too lazy to order the DVD Set

[Chachie]

I had a conversation with a former Redskins turned Cowboy fan this past weekend.

You lost me there.

[SonnyandSam]

JKC also provided millions for scholarships for underprivileged kids in his will.

And most if not all that money came from the sale of the Washington Redskins....at the expense of his own children. Poor John Cooke could not even become owner of the franchise owned by his father. Danny was able to raise more capital to buy the team than JKC's son......and thus we were led into the wilderness for ten long years.......of drought.....and famine......and other Vinnie led disasters.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Why, oh why is this thread even open

Are you aware of some rule that says issues from the past can't be talked about? Or do you get cheap thrills being a member of the Thread Police?

[boobiemiles]

I am not sure if this was mentioned, but the Skins were the South. For a long time they were the only franchise in the Southern part of the Country. So they had to represent that sentiment.

[Mr. Cooke]

JKC was such a racist that he refused to allow Doug Williams to play in the Super Bowl. It's all over the internet.

[Last Fan Standing]

Lock than block.

Can someone please explain to me why so many people want this thread locked? Do people still become THAT nervous when the topic of race is raised? This is a legit question about the history of our storied franchise. And one where a fellow Redskins fan is being confronted with inaccurate information about the team he supports. Regardless of whether this was sparked by a conversation with a misinformed Cowboys fan (and imo they all tend to be misinformed) the result has been informative and probably puts to rest the idea that Jack Kent Cooke treated white players differently than players of other races. But even if JKC were a racist (which again I have seen nor heard any proof that he was), the reality is that it would still be a part of Redskins history (just like George Marshall's attitude towards racial segregation) and therefore still open to discussion. I just don't understand why people think that any discussion related to Redskins history should ever be censored or blocked on a Redskins message board.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I don't know either way if JKC was or was not a racist, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he employed African Americans on his football team to contribute towards a common good in which he greatly benefitted, somehow validates the fact that he was not a racist.

I've known several people in my lifetime who have hired African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, and so on..............only to hear them unleash bigoted and vitriol comments about people of those respective races, when in the company of family and those of similar creed and/or color.

[THEREALTOR1]

I don't know either way if JKC was or was not a racist, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he employed African Americans on his football team to contribute towards a common good in which he greatly benefitted, somehow validates the fact that he was not a racist.

I've know several people in my lifetime who have hired African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asaian Americans, and so on..............only to hear them unleash bigoted and vitriol comments about people of those respective races, when in the company of family and those of similar creed and/or color.

So your point is that JKC was a racist, regardless of what he does/or doesn't do or say, publicly or privately, simply because of the people that you hang out with :whoknows:

I'm not busting your balls HYDC, i'm just saying thats a poor comparison

See EDIT

[RWJ]

Beside the three trophies that he bought to Washington, what were his strong and negative points in life?

I had a conversation with a former Redskins turned Cowboy fan this past weekend. Him and I were talking about some of the black players during his time... included was the discussion of how he proclaimed Jack Kent Cooke to be a racist "****." I being an African American as well as a 'Skins fan took the time to hear his argument on this subject matter.

He bought up one scenario where we had a RB by the name of Kelvin Brown (sp?) whom he said was a very productive runner... his words exact were "he used to average 10 yards a pop" and in between the series, they would take him out and put in Riggins. He also spoke of another "white" player (unsure if he was talking about Riggins also) whom the Redskins would bail out from jail and then put him into the starting line-up without any type of discipline. We spoke more about the constant derailment of black on this team but then turned to the incorporation between the ABA and NBA.

My question to him was... "Was this an influence of JKC or was this just Joe Gibbs wanting to win?"

I then responded that I still could never switch my home-town team with that of a team where I do not reside in the same city/ state. It still left a bitter taste in mouth considering I heard over time of how Doug Williams was done after he won the Super Bowl for this team.

Bro, you must have had a bad day to write such crap like this. JKC was one of the finest owners in the NFL. He left so much to charity when he passed. That the kind of person JKC was. It took Snyder a decade to learn the proper way a team needs to be run but he's learned.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

So your point is that JKC was a racist, regardless of what he does/or doesn't do or say, publicly or privately, simply because of the people that you hang out with :whoknows:

I'm not busting your balls HYDC, i'm just saying thats a poor comparison

See EDIT

Read the very first sentence of my post. Not sure you could have misinterpreted it more inaccurately if you tried. Point is, and it's very simple; just because he employed African Americans does not automatically put him above being a racist. I'm not saying it DOES make him a racist. I'm merely pointing out how naive it is to draw a conclusion, one way or another based on who this man employed to benefit his business.

[HailGreen28]

I don't know either way if JKC was or was not a racist, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he employed African Americans on his football team to contribute towards a common good in which he greatly benefitted, somehow validates the fact that he was not a racist.

I've known several people in my lifetime who have hired African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, and so on..............only to hear them unleash bigoted and vitriol comments about people of those respective races, when in the company of family and those of similar creed and/or color.

The point others are making is that your post means nothing. Just substitute these words:

"I don't know either way if Barrack Obama was or was not a extreme muslim, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he's seen with Christians on public occasions to contribute towards a public appearance in which he greatly benefited, somehow validates the fact that he was not a extreme Muslim.

I've read from multiple sources some of the 9-11 hijackers lived in this country and acted normally, and so on..............only to hijack those planes on 9-11 when in the company of those of a similar creed and/or color."

See why both comments are stupid, for the same reason?

If JKC or Beathard had a racist bone in their body, chances are we wouldn't have won a Superbowl with DW. JKC paid $400K around 1986 to get Williams on the roster as a BACKUP. Back then that was a lot of money especially player's salaries back then.

Your cowpuke friend is clueless about football. That's pretty obvious now.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

The point others are making is that your post means nothing. Just substitute these words:

"I don't know either way if Barrack Obama was or was not a extreme muslim, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he's seen with Christians on public occasions to contribute towards a public appearance in which he greatly benefited, somehow validates the fact that he was not a extreme Muslim.

I've read from multiple sources some of the 9-11 hijackers lived in this country and acted normally, and so on..............only to hijack those planes on 9-11 when in the company of those of a similar creed and/or color."

See why both comments are stupid, for the same reason?

If JKC or Beathard had a racist bone in their body, chances are we wouldn't have won a Superbowl with DW. JKC paid $400K around 1986 to get Williams on the roster as a BACKUP. Back then that was a lot of money especially player's salaries back then.

Your cowpuke friend is clueless about football. That's pretty obvious now.

This is quite frankly, the dumbest post I have read in a very long while. I am actually embarrassed for you. I don't even know how to take it down to the level you're currently residing to get you to understand how your statement was not germaine to the point. JKC owned a business. Winning, and profitablity, were the two most important purposes of his business. People tend to make enormous moral compromises on their own personal value structure when money is involved. NOT SAYING JKC did, again, just saying it's horribly naive to think that who he hired somehow validates his overall moral compass in life.

Also, you don't even realize I'm not the one who created the thread, as evidenced by your ill-placed reference to the cowpuke friend. Get a clue before espousing idiotic posts in a poorly veiled effort to bring Politics into this discussion.

[HailGreen28]

This is quite frankly, the dumbest post I have read in a very long while. I am actually embarrassed for you. I don't even know how to take it down to the level you're currently residing to get you to understand how your statement was not germaine to the point. JKC owned a business. Winning, and profitablity, were the two most important purposes of his business. People tend to make enormous moral compromises on their own personal value structure when money is involved. NOT SAYING JKC did, again, just saying it's horribly naive to think that who he hired somehow validates his overall moral compass in life.

Also, you don't even realize I'm not the one who created the thread, as evidenced by your ill-placed reference to the cowpuke friend. Get a clue before espousing idiotic posts in a poorly veiled effort to bring Politics into this discussion.

Fail on your part. You see how one comment is stupid but not the other.

I thought you could see that, but your posts really are the embarrassing ones. This dialogue illustrates that pretty well.

edit: It's called "forcing someone to prove a negative". Have you heard of that?

[ouvan59]

Read the very first sentence of my post. Not sure you could have misinterpreted it more inaccurately if you tried. Point is, and it's very simple; just because he employed African Americans does not automatically put him above being a racist. I'm not saying it DOES make him a racist. I'm merely pointing out how naive it is to draw a conclusion, one way or another based on who this man employed to benefit his business.

While I agree that employing African Americans does not exonerate him from being a racist there is nothing to support that he was. There is plenty of evidence that he was a horses patoot but he was an equal opportunity patoot from all accounts.

But the evidence provided by the OP (or his buddy) suggesting that he was a racist because John Riggins played ahead of a guy who wasn't even on the team is ludicrous. The fact that Kelvin Bryant lost carries to other African Americans only further cements what an idiot that guy is.

We can draw a conclusion from this thread however. This guy is a Cowboy fan and he is an idiot. Therefore all Cowboy fans are idiots. We know this to be true.

[THEREALTOR1]

Read the very first sentence of my post. Not sure you could have misinterpreted it more inaccurately if you tried. Point is, and it's very simple; just because he employed African Americans does not automatically put him above being a racist. I'm not saying it DOES make him a racist. I'm merely pointing out how naive it is to draw a conclusion, one way or another based on who this man employed to benefit his business.

I did the read the first sentence of your post, You said:

I don't know either way if JKC was or was not a racist, but why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he employed African Americans on his football team to contribute towards a common good in which he greatly benefitted, somehow validates the fact that he was not a racist.

See I have a habit of not listening to anything anybody says as soon as they throw the word but in after it. I've learned through experience that anything prior to that word is simply "fluff". So when I take out the fluff, I read:

why are people seemingly naive enough to think that just because he employed African Americans on his football team to contribute towards a common good in which he greatly benefitted, somehow validates the fact that he was not a racist.

Now, that's a question.

Then in an attempt to validate your question you used an example. The example you used was:

I've know several people in my lifetime who have hired African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asaian Americans, and so on..............only to hear them unleash bigoted and vitriol comments about people of those respective races, when in the company of family and those of similar creed and/or color.

Then using your example, I responded to your question.

So you see, i'm not sure that I misinterepeted you, anymore than you misinterpreted me. Also notice how I didn't use the word but, or however, or any other turn of phrase that might suggest something other than what I was actually trying to say.

[HailGreen28]

Beside the three trophies that he bought to Washington, what were his strong and negative points in life?

I had a conversation with a former Redskins turned Cowboy fan this past weekend. Him and I were talking about some of the black players during his time... included was the discussion of how he proclaimed Jack Kent Cooke to be a racist "****." I being an African American as well as a 'Skins fan took the time to hear his argument on this subject matter.

He bought up one scenario where we had a RB by the name of Kelvin Brown (sp?) whom he said was a very productive runner... his words exact were "he used to average 10 yards a pop" and in between the series, they would take him out and put in Riggins. He also spoke of another "white" player (unsure if he was talking about Riggins also) whom the Redskins would bail out from jail and then put him into the starting line-up without any type of discipline. We spoke more about the constant derailment of black on this team but then turned to the incorporation between the ABA and NBA.

My question to him was... "Was this an influence of JKC or was this just Joe Gibbs wanting to win?"

I then responded that I still could never switch my home-town team with that of a team where I do not reside in the same city/ state. It still left a bitter taste in mouth considering I heard over time of how Doug Williams was done after he won the Super Bowl for this team.

This kind of idiocy by the cowpuke fan is really annoying. His insults of JKC are basically a "how long have you been beating your wife?" statement. There's really no way to disprove it by just saying "No, I don't beat my wife" or "No, JKC isn't a racist" or "No, Obama isn't an extreme Muslim" because you can't prove a negative.

KDawg and the mods might know a classier way to refute this. Barring their advice, here's my recommendation.

1. Laugh at your friend's assertion (not your friend) about Kelvin Bryant. He's comparing a guy who was second string behing George Rogers and one-hit-wonder Timmy Smith, to HOF John Riggins. Laugh at that assertion, and use that as evidence that your friend may be an OK guy, but knows nothing about football.

Point out just because a backup RB gets good stats doesn't mean he can carry the load. Remind him how Marion Barber looked so good as a rotational back, but can't get it done as a everydown back, like Riggins, AP, and Portis have.

2. Sadly, Williams was done after the Superbowl. Never caught fire with us or anybody else again. He had been playing pro football since *1978*. The surprise is how good he still was in 1987.

3. Hate to sling mud back, but maybe it'll make your friend see how stupid he's acting, or at least shut him up on a topic he's wrong about. Point out that you've proven the Kelvin Bryant example is just ignorant, then "point out there are racists playing for the Dallas Cowboys now." "The Terrell Owens situation. White QB shows preference for a white TE, over one of the best WRs of all time, who just happened to be black." And point out "The white coaches and owner didn't do anything but get rid of the black WR. In fact they blackballed him. Destroyed his reputation where only Buffalo would pick him up." Put your friend in the same place he put you, trying to prove a negative. In a VERY RECENT situation with players and staff STILL AT DALLASS.

Ask him how in the heck can he be a Cowboys fan with such obvious CURRENT racists. Don't let him off the hook until he either drops the whole thing, or admits that both arguments are stupid.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

While I agree that employing African Americans does not exonerate him from being a racist there is nothing to support that he was. There is plenty of evidence that he was a horses patoot but he was an equal opportunity patoot from all accounts.

But the evidence provided by the OP (or his buddy) suggesting that he was a racist because John Riggins played ahead of a guy who wasn't even on the team is ludicrous. The fact that Kelvin Bryant lost carries to other African Americans only further cements what an idiot that guy is.

We can draw a conclusion from this thread however. This guy is a Cowboy fan and he is an idiot. Therefore all Cowboy fans are idiots. We know this to be true.

100% agree with everything you said ouvan.

[Potato Sack]

I had a conversation with a former Redskins turned Cowboy fan this past weekend.

And that's when I quit reading the post. :doh: