No Oline = No Offense = No wins. And btw, no draft picks

[FrFan]

The Skins have almost zero young talent to develop other than Orakpo and Williams, and once again they don't have many draft picks next Spring. They need a NT, a RB, a WR, at least 1 LB, and at least 3 olineman. Meanwhile we just cut our top draft pick from a couple of seasons ago and the other is on IR and can't stay healthy. New England in contrast has 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds next season.

How about Torain, Banks, Armstrong ?

If you look at NE draft picks they are impressive in terms of numbers but in terms of quality not as much, so far. It is always very good to have multiple picks, but finding the good players is another matter. We will see next year what the Cheatriots will do with this draft of "plenty".

[Tweedr01]

The world is full up no positive people with half baked knowledge.

Thanks for trying to get in the front of the line but you have to get in the back.

Better to appear a foul then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I agree with you, lol, but this last sentence is fantastic! It is much better to appear a fowl...I mean a foul...I mean fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Shawn12]

We need one big "Whiners Only" thread. I get that the Skins aren't the best in the league and require a lot of rebuilding and a surge of youth, but geeeezzz!!!! You don't have to write about it over and over. It's going to take a few years to change the system. We get it. Holy crap! Some of you need to go cheer for the Steelers like every other disgruntled fan of a team that is struggling. Rant complete.

[GaryGreenMonk]

what we need is better scouts.

Bruce is a money manager guy..

we badly need someone who is good at evaluating prospects. i'm sure we have lacked good scouts because Snyderatto probably voided anything they said.

[rumplestilskin]

I can see that embracing the negative is a strategy that many have adopted. This way you have preperared yourself for the inevitable letdown that us as skins fans have experienced so many times. I am staying on the optimistc side knowing that we have the best coach and QB in the division and we are winning close games. The defense gives up yards but not so many points so I am cool with that. Our depth on the lines are a work in progress but the sky is not falling and geez give the management some time. As per injuries as an excuse for our win remember that Albert was not playing for us. So they(pack) may have got lucky there. Our Oline depth is in for a real test if Trent and Jamal are out. Freeny and Mathis will be coming.

[SonnyJ]

The Packers had a ton of injuries and penalties, and the Skins capitalized.

I'm mystified by this. You do know that during Sunday's game that the Redskins had Brown, Hicks, and Rabach out at various points of the game? I thought it was pretty much accepted fact that OLs need time and reps with each other in order to gel and work as a cohesive unit. It seemed to me that a lot of the pressure problems were due to delayed blitzes that the Packers brought against Lichensteiger - he would go over to help Rabach out, the DE would shoot out wide, then a Packer blitzer would shoot through the gap. Experience is needed to recognize those situations. Have some patience. The Redskins are beating playoff teams from last season even though they aren't firing on all cylinders yet - isn't that a cause for optimism?

Also, to your point: do you feel that the Packers have done a good job assembling their team? If so, why can't they compensate for some injuries? This is a game of attrition, after all, and it seems to me that, if the Packers are as loaded as everyone seems to think they are, then a few injuries here and there shouldn't derail them, especially against an old and poorly talented team like the Redskins.

Right?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I'm mystified by this. You do know that during Sunday's game that the Redskins had Brown, Hicks, and Rabach out at various points of the game? I thought it was pretty much accepted fact that OLs need time and reps with each other in order to gel and work as a cohesive unit. It seemed to me that a lot of the pressure problems were due to delayed blitzes that the Packers brought against Lichensteiger - he would go over to help Rabach out, the DE would shoot out wide, then a Packer blitzer would shoot through the gap. Experience is needed to recognize those situations. Have some patience. The Redskins are beating playoff teams from last season even though they aren't firing on all cylinders yet - isn't that a cause for optimism?

Also, to your point: do you feel that the Packers have done a good job assembling their team? If so, why can't they compensate for some injuries? This is a game of attrition, after all, and it seems to me that, if the Packers are as loaded as everyone seems to think they are, then a few injuries here and there shouldn't derail them, especially against an old and poorly talented team like the Redskins.

Right?

he has 0 point at all. theyve got rodgers, jennings, driver, nelson, james, hell even donald lee can still play. their tight end goes out and all the sudden hes the reason they lost? give me a friggin break. they run a spread it out 4-5 WR slant offense. obviously finley was a loss, but its not like had he been in there the game was a lock for them. and we were missing our best pass rushing DL in haynesworth who finally showed that he can still play, factor his presence in on that line, especially considering how much better he makes guys like orakpo.

[lowek723]

This is why you dont make threads during the game

[flexxskins]

The world is full up no positive people with half baked knowledge.

Thanks for trying to get in the front of the line but you have to get in the back.

Better to appear a foul then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

:ols:Wow!! Read your quote again and let us all know who you think needs to get in the front of the STFU line.

GSF, it just seems like to me that you've made a unconscious decision to only dwell on the negative/weak aspects of our team, when you could also be looking at the positives.

Yes our o-line is bad, but, Trent Williams is solid at LT and Jamaal Brown I believe is playing hurt at RT every game. The positive is that we are still finding ways to win and things should just improve in the future. We will eventually replace Hicks and Lichtensteiger, Brown will hopefully be healthy and maybe we can finally move Rabach out of here some how.:fingersx:

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

The premise of this thread is correct. The way we've consistently disregarded the draft in the past has really hurt us, and it will make this process longer than it should be.

However, I think we have good people in place to get the process of infusing talent and changing the culture of this organization started. Hopefully, we will be able to flip some vets for picks this offseason (Andre Carter, Haynesworth, etc.). We need a multitude of draft picks.

[SonnyJ]

he has 0 point at all. theyve got rodgers, jennings, driver, nelson, james, hell even donald lee can still play. their tight end goes out and all the sudden hes the reason they lost? give me a friggin break. they run a spread it out 4-5 WR slant offense. obviously finley was a loss, but its not like had he been in there the game was a lock for them. and we were missing our best pass rushing DL in haynesworth who finally showed that he can still play, factor his presence in on that line, especially considering how much better he makes guys like orakpo.

There's also the logical fallacy that the Packers, with what is generally regarded as a loaded roster, can lose a couple of players which the Redskins needed to have happen in order to be on par with them, but the Redskins need another two offseasons to complete a roster overhaul (which I take to mean over half the starters replaced).

So, the Redskin roster is old and undertalented, but they are just a couple of Packer injuries away from being on equal footing with the Packers (if not better, since the Redskins outplayed them in the second half despite their own injuries and missing Haynesworth). I just don't see how the logic squares with this statement. :whoknows: It seems to me that one of the best rosters in the NFL could withstand losing some players and still beat a poorly talented team like the Redskins, right? :confused:

Unless, of course, the Redskins aren't as bereft of talent as the armchair GMs seem to think. Yes, they aren't loaded two NFL-quality starters deep at every position, but is their roster really that much worse than most teams in the NFL?

[BillyKilmer]

GSF posts somethings never change

[Mr. Cooke]

Shanahan and Allen know more about football than the entire ES wisdom (including me).

[Rocky21]

What an odd thread. Made when a Redskins game was in process.....that we won. OP, weren't you watching the game? We beat a team many picked to go to the Super Bowl with our ****ty O line. We won!

[nemocystem]

seriously...i'm sick of hearing it from pundits & fanboys, & i'm honestly awestruck to be hearing it from so many Redskins fans...

we got lucky...

first, i'll retort to this cliche with another: "you make your own luck."

next...i would simply like to point some apparrently not so obvious points in relation to this "luck" we've been having:

1) it's about friggin' time we get +es on the luck side. so...naw...i got no sympathy.

2) holding the teams down to what we have in our wins (the main consistent statistic in our wins vs. our losses) is nothing short of exceptional.

have they moved the football on us? most certainly. have we looked lesser than the final score? to some extent...although this is also debatable. are we actually doing enough to deserve these "wins?" ABSOLOOOOOTELY!!!

3) you can point to one major commonality from our wins (other than points allowed) that happens to be perhaps the most significant factor...injuries. but these aren't pre-existing injuries getting re-injured. they aren't knicks/knocks that players happened to get during practice leading up to the game. & they're definitely not injuries picked up in any earlier games that kept any of these players out for their games against us.

what's more is that none of these injuries to opposing players have been of the "freak accident" variety.

no...these injuries are all being picked up whilst playing against the Redskins.

soooo...you can say luck/good fortune....the media can keep on pointing out the reasons why we should have lost, but this glaring commonality tells me unequivocally that THIS Redskins team comes to knock your head off & you had better be prepared for it. THIS Redskins team is going to hit you in the mouth & make you remember who you played. THIS Redskins team is going to lay people out & ask for names later, & if the players on your team aren't prepared...they're gonna get hurt, & if your backups aren't ready to step up...you're gonna lose.

'cause THIS Redskins team is easily the first, second, or third most physical team in the league.

what all the rollercoaster defensive stats, the inconsistent offensive stats, & the 3-2 record have shown me is something perhaps we already know. that the physicality of the game of football can't be measured in a statistic. that you can't quantify how tired a team gets of being physically pushed around the field by the fourth quarter. there's no box score that will tell you as plainly as i will right now...that perhaps, by the 10th play of a grueling offensive drive...eeking out every inch...getting nailed at the point of every reception (& incomplete for that matter)...perhaps the offense is a little more gassed than a defense that's not only pole-axeing you, but is also changing personnel more frequently than you.

i could be wrong...but perhaps we can look at the players injured by the Redskins while in-play this season & draw all we need to know about this team......

bring your hard-hat & some tylenol, cuz we're about to go to work!

HTTR

[OnlySkins4ever]

I don't think McNabb is HOF worthy. If he played in the 60s with his stats and lack of superbowl, maybe, but not in today's pass happy game.

[bigyim]

B ack to the original point of the thread...to counterpoint the talk about how threadbare our OL is.

No team in the NFCE has invested as many draft picks in the OL as Philly. They know that you win up front in the trenches.

...would you put their OL as the BEST in the NFCE right now?

Would you take their talent over the Redskins, as we speak?

Mind you, they have 8 more sacks than we do, with the same amount of pass attempts/game.

All this to point out...draft picks only are valuable if you make the right pick. Which is something the previous administration had great difficulty in doing.

You can stay in your bedroom with the shades pulled down, GSF, but most fans can tell that there's something different with this management group.

It's not the "same ol' same ol'" anymore.

[36HAMMER]

You could very well be right but the determining fctor will be the new player/management contract.How does the cap work, how high and son on and the rookie pay scale.because this next offseason is supposed to be the depest fa class ever.if done right it could be like a second draft a drastically speed up our turn around.That is why i was wondering why they traded for Mcnabb,he is a great qb i have no problems or quams with or about him.But we needed to gut this team and trade who we could for what we could and stock up on picks but they went ahead and picked up Donovan.Fletcher is also starting to sho that the door is closing on him.You can see that he knows where to go but hes finding it harder and harder to get there on time. last year that wasn't a problem but he is starting to mis plays simply because he doesn't have the speed/quickness he used to.

[MustangSteve]

Yes we won, but cmon we got lucky. All those Packers injured including Mattews. Everyone want to move on and talk about drafting a WR or RB when really we are still not finish building this offensive line. We can't allow McNabb to be taking hits like that every week. Grateful for the win though...

What about our injuries and missing players? Portis out, both our starting tackles got hurt, Haynesworth not even there, and we still found a way to come back and beat a damn good team. The Redskins earned this victory and held a good offense to only 13 points without our best defensive lineman.

[Hollywood1127]

You know it's funny. It's the same thing over and over in Redskins land. You look at the threads and fans will say McNabb is a bum, Shanahan can't call plays, ect, ect. None of that matters. The Redskins can't block. They have had the worst oline in the nfl for several seasons now.

The Redskins can't run block, and they can't pass protect. Guys used to talk about how terrible Campbell was last year, and he probably is a bust, but bring in HOF QB McNabb and other than a little more success on broken plays nothing looks any different. People used to dump on Zorn, who was definitely in over his head, but HOF coach Shanahan and all the talk of how much better the off-season was, and things really don't look different.

Aikman was exactly right when he siad it doesn't really matter what Shanahan does, Bruce Allen is the one that has to change things. But how long will that take?

The Skins have almost zero young talent to develop other than Orakpo and Williams, and once again they don't have many draft picks next Spring. They need a NT, a RB, a WR, at least 1 LB, and at least 3 olineman. Meanwhile we just cut our top draft pick from a couple of seasons ago and the other is on IR and can't stay healthy. New England in contrast has 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds next season.

I hate to say it guys, but this situation is going to be bad for a long time. It's a shame b/c put a decent line in front of McNabb and this is a decent team.

Savvy fans in ES have been saying it for years: It all starts up front and the Skins just don't have the horses on the line. But Redskins management, no matter who that is, continues to propigate the fantasy that they are a McNabb, or a Haynesworth, or a Jason Taylor away from being contenders so they continue to trade away those critical second and third round picks.

When will the Redskins admit defeat and truly start over? Until they face the fact that the formula they've used for the last decade has been a failure, they will continue to stink it up on the field. Me, I don't know how much more I can watch of this.

I can agree with some things. Redskins need an O-Line and more draft picks. Unless we can convince someone that they need Haynesworth, we can't get any good picks. I have heard some talk about Portis possibly being traded. I don't want to see that happen, but do you guys really think he is explosive as he was back when he was with Denver. I mean how often do you see him bull doze his way through the defensive line for positive yards. And if he does get the 1st down, he falls right to the ground. Other HB's I have seen in the league keep fighting for the extra yards and possibly the touchdown. Portis does not do this anymore. Only way can I see Portis becoming an explosive HB in the league, is if we get a decent O-Line that can open up holes for him.

[djnominal]

yet another instant gratification post. change takes time have we not learned that from the recession/economy

[GSF]

LOL, I'm getting killed in here! Just to clear a few things up:

1. Sorry to be so negative or a downer. Obviously I was very frustrated when I wrote this. Those that know me know that for most of the 8 years i've been posting in here I'm usually very optimistic. Guess I've just been burned too many times on that, but I will say I do feel much better about Shanny/Allen then I did about Zorn/Vinny or Spurrier/Vinny. I like a lot of what Shanny and Allen have done so far to change the culture around the team, I just would prefer to see them trading players for draft picks instead of trading picks for players since I don't feel the current team has a legit chance of being a superbowl or even "deep into the playoffs" contender.

2. My main point here was that the Redskins probably need to get worse before they get better. They are the oldest team in the league, most of their recent draft picks that they didn't trade away are either hurt or busts, and they are missing key picks in next year's draft. The only way the Skins will dig out of this hole IMO is make a commitment to the draft, and accumulate as many picks as possible whether it be by trading down or trading players. I believe if the Redskins continue to trade away draft picks as they have done, they will only get worse and have no chance at success.

3. I'm not taking anything away from the wins over GB, Philly, and Dallas. The played their hearts out, and I love to see it. In recent seasons they would have lost all of those games. There's no arguing though that they got a little help with those wins, especially GB and Dallas. I think it will be very difficult for the Skins to continue to keep that emmotional level so high that they can keep on beating more talented teams. Do i want them to? Hell yeah. I just wonder how long these old guys can keep it up. The oline is already fighting numerous injuries and we're only 5 games in.

4. I absolutely believe that Shanny is a great coach and can get it done. What I want is a change in philosophy. I'm over being the off-season champs. I'm tired of trading for aging super-stars. I want the team to build a foundation, and I'm willing to go through some tough seasons to get there, bc I think that is the only way we will get there. I want a commitment to building a team b/c I think that anyone who still believes we're a player or 2 away is nuts.

Now, resume flaming!