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The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

BRAVEONAWARPATH

By BRAVEONAWARPATH
in The Tailgate

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted (edited)

Booker has a strange shot release. Like a catapult.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 08:43 PM ----------

I don't understand how you can have a relatively low opinion of Wall but still be optimistic about our chances night to night.

Its not low. I think he's near Rondo, which I think highly of, but not a max player. This team is designed to rely on a point guard and the parade of bad we've had at the position aren't enough to make it go. Webster and Beal have given this team shooting. Okafor and Nene have given them low post offense. This team quietly be me well rounded... But not without a PG and confidence, both of which Wall provides.

Edited by Destino
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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

Posted
Posted (edited)
That did not look good. We are cursed. Plain and simple. Still's sig is the truth.

Just hoping his shoulder isn't dislocated.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 09:02 PM ----------

Its early, but Michael Lee is saying shoulder strain.

We scored 30 pts in the first quarter, 10 pts in the 2nd.

Edited by StillUnknown
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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Its not low. I think he's near Rondo, which I think highly of, but not a max player. This team is designed to rely on a point guard and the parade of bad we've had at the position aren't enough to make it go. Webster and Beal have given this team shooting. Okafor and Nene have given them low post offense. This team quietly be me well rounded... But not without a PG and confidence, both of which Wall provides.

Fair enough, but Rondo is a max contract player IMO. Or very close to it. The deal he signed with Boston was a HUGE bargain that came about because of somewhat unusual circumstances. A year later and that deal would have been a max deal. Rondo's contract was so attractive that he was the subject of trade speculation all year before Boston finally realized he was too good and valuable to trade. Remember all of the Rondo for Westbrook straight up talk that season?

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

The past few games have been so painful. Now Wall is hurt. Beal is hurt. Nene has been hurt for a while. Spurs tomorrow night. The next few games are completely brutal. The optimism of 7-3 is pretty much gone now.

We've got to get a good draft pick out of this year. If it can go wrong, it ****ing already has. This year has been a trial. We need to get Nerlens.

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted
Wittman waited until there were 2:54 remaining in the 4th to bring Wall back in. Indefensible really.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 10:12 PM ----------

Garrett Temple started the game tonight, don't remember seeing him at all in the 2nd half.

Wittman is a complete idiot. It's not just his rotations but his offense isn't working when the game slows. I think Flip would have one much better with this roster.

---------- Post added February-1st-2013 at 10:51 PM ----------

The past few games have been so painful. Now Wall is hurt. Beal is hurt. Nene has been hurt for a while. Spurs tomorrow night. The next few games are completely brutal. The optimism of 7-3 is pretty much gone now.

We've got to get a good draft pick out of this year. If it can go wrong, it ****ing already has. This year has been a trial. We need to get Nerlens.

The half court offense isn't going to improve until we get a perimeter player that can create and a coach that has an offense that isn't written in crayon. Ideally a SF upgrade would be perfect but this may be he worst year for it,

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The Robert Griffin Experience

The Robert Griffin Experience

Posted
Posted (edited)
And without RG3 we're still slamming Dan Snyder.

Maybe. It's entirely possible that without RGIII, we're looking forward to next year coming off a 9-7 or 8-8 season with a young core of Morris Clairborne, Jonathan Martin and Russell Wilson. Not that I'd trade RGIII for all those guys combined twice over, but this team was on the right track long before he traded for RGIII.

The point is, Ted Leonsis is bad at running pro sports franchises, and loves to pretend he's good at it, and vomits spin about how brilliant he is.

Also, the thing with the Harden situation is that Harden is already a top 15, maybe a top 10 player, who's 23. I've seen enough from Beal that he MIGHT be that good. But Harden already is that good.

Also I think we should trade Wall. He provided a nice spark coming back but the fact is, he seems totally dependent on a healthy Beal, he will demand the max, and giving him the max is a franchise-crippling move. If Wall + Nene can get expirings and a lottery pick, I do it. Wall's a bust (given his draft spot and the expectations given and the pre-draft hype - remember when Rose was his FLOOR?), let's not mince words. He's an incredible athletic talent and he's a great passer, but he's a terrible shooter and his basketball IQ is below-average, and we can't toss a max contract at him hoping he'll mature into an elite player.

Edited by The Robert Griffin Experience
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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

I completely disagree that Wall's a bust. I don't think I could disagree more. I think he's already proven he's a good PG and I think he will be an All Star PG in time. If you build the right team around him, I think he'll be enormously effective and grow into his transcendent talents.

And he absolutely does not have a below average BBall IQ. He's a brilliant playmaker on offense and he's becoming one on defense too.

I don't understand the teeth gnashing about Wall's potential contract. He's going to get what he earns. Bottom line, you absolutely have to build around Wall because we're not going to get another talent like him for a long time. Trading him would be an absolute disaster that sets the team back who knows how many years? There isn't a single player in this class that would be picked over John Wall if he came out as a senior this year.

Also, I contend that it's not Beal vs. Harden. It's Beal plus a likely top 4 pick this year vs. Harden. On rookie contracts that help keep us under the luxury tax as the key pieces of the team develop together whereas signing Harden would have put us well into the tax for at least this year and next year. That's a HUGE difference.

I couldn't give less of a **** about the Capitals or the Mystics TBH. But I know the NBA and I see the potential this Wiz construction still has and I understand the timeline we're looking at. You've got a good foundation of Wall & Beal to move forward with but it's still years away from fully maturing. They are potential top five players at their positions. Maybe higher in any given year. Once they do mature, this team will win a lot of games, period.

After them, you've got mostly nothing though. Okafor and Nene are maybe B level players today, but they're so much older than Wall and Beal and they only serve to buttress the roster enough to keep the team competitive each night. They need to be replaced with a big time talent at PF or C sooner than later because they will probably decline from here. Crawford is probalby a B- level player now, maybe a little less, no more than a role player for any good team. But he's really the only other young piece proving he's worth keeping. Five good NBA players on the team. Only four of whom have a PER over the supposed league average of 15, and two of them being short term pieces. That's why we aren't winning yet, not because Wall is a failure.

Singleton and Ves are not developing and don't even seem to have roles. The time is running out on them. Ariza takes as much off the table as he puts on it. Seraphin has regressed and may lose his role on the team moving forward. Booker is pretty good but his availability is so unreliable. Martell, Price, Temple, etc., all vet stop gaps whose primary value comes from how cheap they are.

The team is still lacking long term talent and an acceptable level of talent among the role players who need to be filling out the roster. We could get by with a player like Booker being used for a role if we didn't have question marks with almost every other role player.

The heavy lifting is already done regardless. We've got two potential stars. Get a good front court player and you can build everything else pretty easily. When you've got your basic foundation of star players, finding role players is easy. Look at the Clippers. They were just as awful for longer than we've been and they very rapidly improved after they got their foundation set and it matured.

Hopefully we draft high again this season and get a good one. We've got a terrible record and there are at least two, maybe three or four bigs that are really good. If they don't screw this draft up and eventually get a worthy coach, the Wizards will be fine, and they will be built to sustain success.

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RonArtest15

RonArtest15

Posted
Posted (edited)
Maybe. It's entirely possible that without RGIII, we're looking forward to next year coming off a 9-7 or 8-8 season with a young core of Morris Clairborne, Jonathan Martin and Russell Wilson. Not that I'd trade RGIII for all those guys combined twice over, but this team was on the right track long before he traded for RGIII.

The point is, Ted Leonsis is bad at running pro sports franchises, and loves to pretend he's good at it, and vomits spin about how brilliant he is.

Also, the thing with the Harden situation is that Harden is already a top 15, maybe a top 10 player, who's 23. I've seen enough from Beal that he MIGHT be that good. But Harden already is that good.

Also I think we should trade Wall. He provided a nice spark coming back but the fact is, he seems totally dependent on a healthy Beal, he will demand the max, and giving him the max is a franchise-crippling move. If Wall + Nene can get expirings and a lottery pick, I do it. Wall's a bust (given his draft spot and the expectations given and the pre-draft hype - remember when Rose was his FLOOR?), let's not mince words. He's an incredible athletic talent and he's a great passer, but he's a terrible shooter and his basketball IQ is below-average, and we can't toss a max contract at him hoping he'll mature into an elite player.

Wall a bust, what???!!!???

Not living up to RIDICULOUS expectations (so far), yeah...I can see the argument. However to say he's a bust is flat out silly. Let me ask you...before the Clippers got Chris Paul, was Blake Griffin a bust?

Wall was put in arguably the worst situation for a player in the NBA. There was organizational dysfunction from top to bottom. Outside of maybe Paul/Rondo, I don't know of ANY point guard who would have thrived or done well playing here in DC with the boobs that we had on the roster. I've brought up this point many times before, but look at how Deron Williams played when he was sent from Utah to New Jersey. This was a man considered to be a top-3 PG in the league in many circles, and he was a shell of his former self while playing for the Nets. His coaching was bad, teammates were awful, etc. He was trying to do WAY too much and his game suffered. The same can be said about Wall. He's a pass-first PG. He's NOTHING like Derrick Rose. I hate the comparison. Anyone who compares the two hasn't paid close attention to their actual playing styles.

I'll give Wall a pass for his team struggles over the past couple of years. He's not without fault because there are a lot of aspects of his game that need obvious improvement. However, it's no coincidence, IMO, that Wall has played hte best basketball of his career upon his return to the team this season. He's got the best teammates he's ever had as a pro, and for all their ups and downs, the team has the highest b-ball IQ in his tenure as well. We're getting a small glimpse of the improvement this team shows when everyone has decent health. Obviously, it's not a finished product, but it provides the fans (and the media to an extent) some confidence that there is something here that can be built upon. All of this hinges on future moves laid out by the front office. Whether you have faith in them or not is another discussion for another day....however, my point remains that it's asinine to call Wall a bust as he's ONLY in his 3rd year as a pro. The W/L record is obviously poor, but his overall statistics put him in ELITE company as far as comparing him to other PGs early in their careers as well.

*edit*

SM beat me to the punch on this, but I echo his sentiments.

Edited by RonArtest15
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