BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Boo. I think I'd pull he trigger. As long as that unprotected 1st is in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Let me tell you what will happen if we make that deal: 1.) Griffin becomes a shell of the player he used to be by his 29th birthday. Spends a ton of time injured. In the meantime we become the most obnoxious team in the NBA. 2.) Lance Stephenson tears our locker room apart. 3.) Beal and Porter reach their potential. Beal becomes a perennial All Star. Porter gets a couple of nods in a Rip Hamilton-esque career. 4.) That first round pick becomes top three. Let me tell you what will happen if we don't make that deal: 1.) Griffin gets back to being a top five player 2.) There is no possible upside with Stephenson, he's still a cancer for LA 3.) Beal battles injuries almost every season of his career and never realizes his potential. Porter plays out his contract before moving on and eventually experiences a late career renaissance for some other team a la Rip Hamilton. 4.) We get an 8th seed and that first round pick falls outside of the lottery and Ernie spends it on a guy who is out of the league in five years. Which outcome would you prefer? I think actually the second, just to **** with the Clippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think I'd pull he trigger. As long as that unprotected 1st is in 2017. Hm. That would change things for me. Blake is going to be out until March and then might face suspension. Already 5 games under .500. Losing four key rotation players over that span and replacing them only with CJ Wilcox and Lance Stephenson would mean a definite lottery season. Might as well shut Wall down too until March. So yeah, the first rounder would need to be for 2017 or have some protections on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Another consideration is what does this do to our commitments against salary cap this summer? Let me do some maths real quick: Projected cap = ~89-90 1 - Griffin = 20 2 - Wall = 17 3 - Gortat = 12 4 - Stephenson = team option for 9.4 5 - Humphries = 4.6 6 - Gooden = 3.6 (non guaranteed) 7 - Blair = 2 (non guaranteed) 8 - Oubre = 2 9 - Wilcox = 1.2 10 - first round pick hold = ~2 11-15 - Min contract hold = ~3 16 - Webster's .83 Roughly 62.6 million in hard commitments and holds assuming we'd pick in the late lottery. With a 90 million dollar cap, we'd have 27.4 million in cap space, and therefore juuuuust enough money to offer Durant a 27 million dollar max. To create more space, we'd need to lose Humphries. A Wall-Durant-Griffin team is, presumably, a title favorite. Especially with the center position sorted out. All we'd have to do after that is stock up on wing shooters. We'd be tight against the cap, but we could use our draft pick and the MLE two find at least two. Plus Oubre has potential. I change my mind, I'd pull the trigger on that Griffin trade. I think it's our best bet at convincing Durant to come here. And if that didn't work out, well, then at least we'd probably be one of the top teams in the East next season. A potential major downside is that it could save Ernie's job. Rather watch good basketball than worry about that though. **** I forgot to do min contract holds for cutting Stephenson, Gooden, and Blair. That actually takes away our ability to offer Durant a max deal without dropping Humphries or trading the draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 A potential major downside is that it could save Ernie's job. Rather watch good basketball than worry about that though. there is no such thing as good basketball with Grunfeld attached, only illusions of such 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 there is no such thing as good basketball with Grunfeld attached, only illusions of such Probably right. And who am I kidding, that trade would absolutely save Ernie's job. But I don't know, my expectations are low enough that'd I would simply enjoy watching three or four seeds for the next three seasons and an assload of Wall-Griffin pick and rolls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I feel like if this rumor is true, and the trade works out...this would kinda make up for the botched Webber deal to Sacramento back in the day. If this is on the table, Ernie needs to pull the trigger NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Regarding the Griffin trade... Does Wall still remember how to throw alley-oop passes? Probably been 3-4 years since he's thrown one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If that's true you have to pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think the Clippers might, "win" this trade... But what are they, the Clippers, trying to accomplish with it? I thought they wanted to contend for the title; but if you're going to tell me that this trade does that, I'm calling you a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 No way that trade rumor is true. Griffin is 26 and a proven star. Unless he's told the Clipper that he intends to kill CP3 there is no reason to move him. If it is true, the Wizards win that trade by a mile. They get John Wall (25) and star of the same age build around and the Wizards would still have a bunch of expiring contracts. They'd be set up to build a team around two stars. Then all they'd need is a new GM to get the right talent around them and a head coach that gets the most out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If the Wizards pulled that trade off, Ernie wouldn't be going anywhere. He'd get a small extension this summer because Ted values continuity and would want to see what this newly rebuilt team could do. And then the team would be good enough to secure top three seeds in the East for the next three seasons. Then maybe it starts to come apart as Wall and Griffin hit thirty and start rapidly declining. Give it another year or two for the team to bottom out. So let's say this trade buys him at least five more years. Maybe six or seven. Ernie would just retire! :lol: Ernie retires as a Wizards institution after serving nearly 20 years as our GM. Highpoints of his tenure will be the three seasons of Wall/Griffin where the team wins over 50 games, and even makes the ECF twice before being trounced by the Caveliers! A bold mustachiod statue is built outside the Verizon Center, completely coated in Teflon. Somewhere down the line we'll be telling our grandchildren about the good old days with Grunfeld and those three magical seasons when we were actually pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think the Clippers might, "win" this trade... But what are they, the Clippers, trying to accomplish with it? I thought they wanted to contend for the title; but if you're going to tell me that this trade does that, I'm calling you a liar. Yeah this trade is a setback for them. If it happened, I think it would have to be because that fight he got into was really bad and screwed things up in LA for Blake. To the point where the team is just like "get these two (Stephenson) out of LA now and take the first decent offer you get." You have to admit though, it's an interesting proposition for the Clippers to make a run this season. Blake's hand is messed up and calls his availability in to question for the stretch. Dumps a cancer in Stephenson too. Nene, Dudley, Crawford, Redick is a pretty great bench for a contender. Beal starts for them. Pierce starts. Porter probably does too. **** man that's like our team from last year, only make major upgrades at PG and C, give them a way better coach, and give it a bench of championship caliber role players. The only part of that rotation I don't like is back up PG. Rivers is some trash. But make a separate deal or push for the inclusion of Sessions and you can fix that issue too. And if the draft pick is a 2016 pick, then they get a lottery pick as another nice future asset. Have to replace the bench again after this season, and it certainly isn't a full return of value for Griffin. But you never really get close to full value for trading stars and it's a good mix of long term assets with a couple of useful win now expirings peppered in. I wouldn't do it if I were them though. I don't believe Griffin is on the outs in LA. They'll welcome him back with open arms because he's good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Thinking back on that rumored trade with Harden and Beal... I know hindsight is 20/20, but maybe that is a trade we should have made lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So the clippers have arguably the best pure PG in the league to go along with Griffin and they still can't get past the best teams in the west and we think dumping all of our good young players plus an potential lottery choice to get Griffin will help things here? Maybe we win a few more games but odds are this deal would blow up in the Wizards face and the Beal/Porter combo will develop along with Paul and become one of the best teams in the league lol. Wanting to dump Beal so badly is going to come back to haunt this team. You can see it coming from an mile away. Trading him is not going to work out the way this fanbase thinks. Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So the clippers have arguably the best pure PG in the league to go along with Griffin and they still can't get past the best teams in the west and we think dumping all of our good young players plus an potential lottery choice to get Griffin will help things here? Maybe we win a few more games but odds are this deal would blow up in the Wizards face and the Beal/Porter combo will develop along with Paul and become one of the best teams in the league lol. Wanting to dump Beal so badly is going to come back to haunt this team. You can see it coming from an mile away. Trading him is not going to work out the way this fanbase thinks. Just my opinion of course. The best teams in the west feature the best coach in basketball commanding a ridiculously talented roster and an even more talented roster that might be the best shooting team in NBA history. I wouldn't turn down a trade because the Clippers can't beat those teams. Building around Wall and Beal in the east makes things easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The best teams in the west feature the best coach in basketball commanding a ridiculously talented roster and an even more talented roster that might be the best shooting team in NBA history. I wouldn't turn down a trade because the Clippers can't beat those teams. Building around Wall and Beal in the east makes things easier. I just don't see Griffin being worth half the roster and all of its young talent sans Wall. Boogie might be worth it but not Griffin. But I'm an big believer in Beals potential and what he's going to become so I'm most likely biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 But I'm an big believer in Beals potential and what he's going to become so I'm most likely biased. It's hard to become great from the trainers table. Not only that, but its easier to find a 2 than it is a dominant big man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 It's hard to become great from the trainers table. Not only that, but its easier to find a 2 than it is a dominant big man. Griffin isn't an dominating big man though. He's good but I don't agree about dominating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Past two seasons Blake has been no stranger to the trainer's table either. I think there is legitimate concern that he's no longer the tank he used to be. He's a far better and more valuable player than Beal right now. Probably far more valuable than Beal and Porter combined. I'd pull the trigger, but I'd still be worried if we made that deal. A big concern: LA only makes the deal if they're seriously worried about Blake's longevity and worried about how well his game will age when his athleticism starts declining. That's troubling enough that I would only realistically expect a three or four year run from a Wall/Griffin construction. I'm already worried about Wall's longevity. The way he seems to be moving around in discomfort so often; the rumors of chronic foot problems; some history of weight fluctuation; how often he parties; a style of play that is heavily predicated on his freakish athleticism. I agree with Destino that Wall and Griffin would presumably have the same window. But it seems like an uncomfortably short window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Griffin isn't an dominating big man though. He's good but I don't agree about dominating. If he's not dominant, he's mighty close. He's not in the same class as Curry/LeBron/Durant, but he's probably the best power forward in the league right now. His efficiency numbers are very good, but they seem lesser when you compare him to the bigs who are getting 120 ORtgs and the perimeter players who are getting 28+ PERs. But he's a consistent 23-24 PER player, which is All NBA caliber. And he's a 110-114 ORtg player, but with 30% usage. That is monstrous usage for a PF. That means he's creating a ton of offense for himself plus finishing a ton of plays and doing so with efficiency. I think he's the best offensive player at PF in the game. And he's a terrific rebounder, solid defender, and has even become a respectable FT shooter. Another way to think about the value added in the deal is by quantifying how many more wins you can expect to get as a result of it. Win Shares is kind of a funny stat and it's not really intended to be used this way (it's a retroactive stat), but for the purposes of this projection, let's think of it as a WAR type stat for basketball. Beal is a four win share player right now. So basically Beal's contributions added up to about four of our wins last season, although this year he's only on track for two because of time missed for injury. Porter is a three WS player, Nene was a three last season, but this season is on track for under two because of injury. I'd put future contribution at a peak of three from Nene. Dudley is on track for about four. So if we trade Beal + Porter + Nene + Dudley, we'd presumably be sending out about 13-14 wins for next season (assuming Dudley and Nene came back). Blake Griffin is a 12 win share player. We'd almost get all of those wins back just from adding Griffin by himself! You can reasonably expect to get three win shares from a league average rotation player. So in that four for one player swap, we could sign three more guys and expect to get at least nine win shares. Nine + 12 = 21, meaning we could expect to win a minimum of 7-8 more games next season from making the deal. But that doesn't really account for the positive effect that Griffin could have on Wall's game. Or Gortat's. Griffin is a first option. He'd both draw the defense away from Wall and give Wall a finisher of the quality he has never played with in the NBA. Wall would probably get better, more efficient, and have his own win shares go up purely as a result of playing with Griffin. And it also doesn't account for the fact that we'd have a ton of cap space this summer after making that deal. We'd have the ability to sign rotation players that are much better than league average, and thus expect to have some guys getting more than just three. Paul Pierce from last year was five and a half, and we got him with just the MLE. So let's say you can get a pair of six win share players--guys who are ready to win and contribute to playoff teams now. Now you're talking about adding a lot of wins. Nonetheless, let's say you get rest of the team just back to where we were last season: 46 wins. Add Griffin's seven to eight and that's a 53-54 win team, which would probably get the two or three seed in the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Chris Miller @cmillscsn 7m7 minutes ago The Jan. 23rd game between @WashWizards and @utahjazz has been rescheduled for Thursday, Feb. 18 at 7 p.m. ET at Verizon Center. That will make 3 games in 3 nights coming out of All-Star weekend. Hosting the Jazz and Pistons on the 18th and 19th. Then @ Miami on the 20th. Edited February 5, 2016 by STBonecrusher21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 This year's schedule has been some bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Hopefully the first of many more euro steps from John. That was beautiful. First ive seen him use that. Edited February 6, 2016 by STBonecrusher21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Yeah that was pretty. Wall and Beal are cooking tonight. They might score 70% of our points. We've been missing playing Philly. Interesting jerseys Philly is wearing. Throwbacks? Holy crap. Neal is hot tonight. Great quarter. Only negative is that they couldn't get Gortat subbed out. Feel like we should be trying to rest him when we can tonight. No J Michael, Jared Dudley doesn't need to be in the 3 Pt contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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