No Excuses Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I still wonder how much the injury has or even is setting him back. Are we seeing the real Wall out there and has his progress been limited by these injuries. Sadly, injuries don't explain low IQ and a complete inability to play in half court sets. These were his deficiencies as a rookie and they still are. He lacks proper coaching. To me it's amazing that we've handed the keys to our rebuild and player development to a head coach whose career winning percentage isn't over .400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Didn't get much from 2010 either. Crawford traded away, Seraphin and Booker would barely qualify as role players on quality teams.Wall for being a #1 pick is pretty much a huge disappointment by now. He's a good player but hardly the franchise turn around superstar you would hope a #1 pick is. Bill Simmons made a sidepoint in his post about bad contracts that in a 4 year stretch of #1 picks, we naturally got the one that wasn't Rose, Griffin, or Irving. To me it's amazing that we've handed the keys to our rebuild and player development to a head coach whose career winning percentage isn't over .400. Mind-boggling really. Nobody envisioned Wittman as the long term replacement when Flip was fired, he was to be a placeholder at best. Assuming Wittman is retained for another year, in Wall's first 4 years, he will have been coached by a lame-duck in Flip, and a coach who has one of the worst winning percentages in the history of the game. Edited March 9, 2013 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabby Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 But honestly tho, Wall was the right pick in that draft. Would you guys rather we picked Evan Turner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) But honestly tho, Wall was the right pick in that draft. Would you guys rather we picked Evan Turner? He was definitely the right pick at the time, but he's in danger of being passed by a couple of players drafted after him. Edited March 9, 2013 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Bill Simmons made a sidepoint in his post about bad contracts that in a 4 year stretch of #1 picks, we naturally got the one that wasn't Rose, Griffin, or Irving.Mind-boggling really. Nobody envisioned Wittman as the long term replacement when Flip was fired, he was to be a placeholder at best. Assuming Wittman is retained for another year, in Wall's first 4 years, he will have been coached by a lame-duck in Flip, and a coach who has one of the worst winning percentages in the history of the game. A couple of months ago, I made the said the same exact thought as Simmons and it wasn't taken too kindly around here. I have a feeling Wall will top out as a slightly above average PG, like a top 7-10 in his prime. Very respectable and slightly disappointing for a #1 pick but in order for us to contend, we'll need to find an easy scoring, borderline star at the wing position. Maybe Muhammad/Porter can become that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabby Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 He was definitely the right pick at the time, but he's in danger of being passed by a couple of players drafted after him. But that happens all the time. But i agree he has underachieved for the most part so far. After his rookie season i was so hyped about him, but nothing that i have noticed has improved since his rookie season. hes still the same player, just older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 But that happens all the time. But i agree he has underachieved for the most part so far. After his rookie season i was so hyped about him, but nothing that i have noticed has improved since his rookie season. hes still the same player, just older. He's better than he used to be. But not enough better to satisfy people with his growth. And mainly the team is still losing. We've been unlucky and we made mistakes. 2011 stopped the clock on the rebuild because of the friggin lockout and the awful draft class. We went too young and Wall being out longest tenured player is a disaster of roster turnover. The cupboard was actually, literally bare before we picked Wall. And you can thank the disastrous decision to trade the 2009 pick for that. Wall should have had at least one good young teammate to play with when he got here. And we still haven't gotten out from under the Blatche and Arenas mistakes. The Arenas contract is even worse than the 2009 decision to trade the pick. We've spent 20 million dollars a year for the past three years for virtually nothing. 27 million when you count Blatche. Look what we got from Arenas and Shard! Like maybe 5 20 point games? We essentially said, **** it, take almost half our cap NBA. We'll play without it. And then look at our coaches. Wittman makes Vinny Del Negro seem like John Wooden. And finally, our core, our big 3 that we've worked so hard for, spent so much money for, endured so much losing to get, has played a grand total of 18 games together... The Curse o' Les Boules gentlemen. Horrible luck + incompetence = Wizards. It's hindsight bias to say Wall wasn't as good a #1 prospect as Griffin, Rose, and Irving. I think he was every bit the prospect those guys were. The truth is he got drafted into an absolutely horrible situation. We could've gotten any one of those other guys and I don't doubt we would've ruined them. And if Wall was playing in Chicago or LA or even Cleveland, he'd be well on his way towards success and be considered one of the bright young stars of the league. He came into the league doing things only Oscar and Magic had done before him. He came in bigger and more athletic than Derrick Rose, transcendent athleticism paired with unbelievable court vision and passing instincts, motor and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I think Wall has been let down by this franchise just like every other young player. It is no coincidence that we draft high potential athletes, both with low and high IQ, but none of them seem to improve and eventually most of them get shipped off for other teams unwanted crap. Edited March 9, 2013 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 He was definitely the right pick at the time, but he's in danger of being passed by a couple of players drafted after him. He's already been passed by DeMarcus Cousins, Paul George, and Greg Monroe. But I don't think it's his fault. None of those guys would have been any better at #1. Probably worse. They'd have probably had friggin' AJ Price as their PG. They'd have been stunted here just the same as Wall. We're so used to incompetence here that it almost goes unnoticed. Getting next to nothing out of Vesely and that 6th pick is bad, but the class sucked. Getting literally nothing out of the 5th overall pick in 2009 is unspeakably bad. A fireable offense. Ernie should have been fired on the spot for that alone. But worst of all is getting nothing for all of the dollars we spent for Arenas/Shard/Blatche. Actually it was probably worse than nothing because Blatche was harmful to the team by his very presence. We actually paid those guys that obscene amount of money to stay away from us. That was almost half of our salary cap for 2010 through 2012. Let that sink in for a minute. That horrific, monstrous, ungodly failure basically ensured had no chance to be successful. You simply can not be successful getting 0 contribution from half of your cap. Now we've turned that enormous cap commitment into two decent but vastly overpaid role players. We're at least getting in game contribution from them. They play defense and score the occasional assisted baskets. Oak rebounds. They have good attitudes. They play pretty hard. And that is such a huge improvement over what we got from Arenas and Shard that we've gone from "utter holocaust of an NBA team" to "capable of playing .500 ball when everyone is healthy." We will never be good until we actually get a good player (s) worth the full dollar amount of that 20 million we're spending every year on nothing. And this is a crap draft class and there is no savior in it for us. We can get a good player out of it but nobody is going to turn our franchise around. Otto Porter isn't going to be KD or Melo and suddenly vault us into contention. And then top it all off with the NBA being an uncompetitive joke where the only teams that are ever going to win championships while LeBron James and Kevin Durant are in their primes are the teams that LeBron James and Kevin Durant play for. Actually I don't know... there might be a team with some other super star that might get super lucky and have everything come together for them and get one championship. Or if Dwight Howard goes and plays for some team with a good construction he'll get a ring. I pray that the new CBA destroys the old way of doing business for the league and institutes genuine parity. Or something approaching it. I would also fire everyone, blow our entire team up to draft Andrew Wiggins. Let Okafor and Ariza expire, get Nene's money off the team, probably trade Wall and Beal to get the draft pick necessary to get Wiggins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It's hindsight bias to say Wall wasn't as good a #1 prospect as Griffin, Rose, and Irving. I think he was every bit the prospect those guys were. The truth is he got drafted into an absolutely horrible situation. We could've gotten any one of those other guys and I don't doubt we would've ruined them. And if Wall was playing in Chicago or LA or even Cleveland, he'd be well on his way towards success and be considered one of the bright young stars of the league. He came into the league doing things only Oscar and Magic had done before him. He came in bigger and more athletic than Derrick Rose, transcendent athleticism paired with unbelievable court vision and passing instincts, motor and energy. Wall was absolutely the right pick that year, you'll get no argument from me there. I disagree that the problem Wall has is the team around him. Rose, Magic, Robertson, and most star players in general are vastly superior at scoring the basketball than Wall. There is a difference between "pass first" and "pass because you have to". Wall is he latter. Defenses give him 2 yards to shoot, and not just from the 3 point line. He needs to get to the rim to score and once there he doesn't have the strength of a Westbrook or the variety of a Derrick Rose. Last night he tried to take the game over and put up more than twice the field goal attempts of any teammate... and he squeezed 16 points out of 19 shots. Walls problem is that his game has the same damn holes in it that it had in year one and his defense isn't good enough for his head coach to trust him. Was he tasked with DWill last night? Of course not. Wittman won't say it but his actions speak for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I say it over and over again, how in the world can a GM be able to rebuild a team (and fail) THREE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!??????? Edited March 9, 2013 by SuperBash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Wall was absolutely the right pick that year, you'll get no argument from me there. I disagree that the problem Wall has is the team around him. Rose, Magic, Robertson, and most star players in general are vastly superior at scoring the basketball than Wall. There is a difference between "pass first" and "pass because you have to". Wall is he latter. Defenses give him 2 yards to shoot, and not just from the 3 point line. He needs to get to the rim to score and once there he doesn't have the strength of a Westbrook or the variety of a Derrick Rose. Last night he tried to take the game over and put up more than twice the field goal attempts of any teammate... and he squeezed 16 points out of 19 shots. Walls problem is that his game has the same damn holes in it that it had in year one and his defense isn't good enough for his head coach to trust him. Was he tasked with DWill last night? Of course not. Wittman won't say it but his actions speak for him. Wall didn't have these problems scoring his rookie year. He came in dropping 20 and 30 point games, getting to the rim and the FT line like a young Wade, piling up assists. His jumper has actually gotten worse from where it was at Kentucky and he stopped shooting 3s. Wall is potentially the best fast break PG in the NBA and we've put him with a glacially paced offense and loser coach who doesn't seem to be interested in playing up tempo at all and spent a ton of money on bigs and other players who can't run. Our team construction doesn't make much sense. We've put him in a situation that features his weaknesses rather than his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It doesn't matter who the wiz draft, the culture of this team still has not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Anyway, stepping away from the ledge to look at something distracting: Porter Jr has been pretty good the past several games. His usage rate has climbed and he's playing very efficient. He's not scored or shot quite as well the past two games but he's rebounded and played defense and gotten assists and gotten to the FT line at an excellent rate. ---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 02:02 PM ---------- My thoughts on Porter: - His shot is weird looking and unconventional but it goes in. Some guys become really good shooters with bizarre mechanics, like Eric Gordon. - He's got a creative mid range game. - He gets to the FT line. He can score in volume with efficiency. - His personality fits with our organization IMO. I don't know him personally but everything I've heard him say and read about him leads me to this speculation. - His length makes him an ideal fit at SF for us. - He's got a great BBall IQ like Beal and it allows him to impact the game in a ton of different ways almost like Beal. He can't block shots like Beal does. Beal absolutely crushed all of the other guards last year at rebounding, blocking shots, and getting steals and things. Porter rebounds at a tremendous rate for a SF and he gets steals and assists. - He can shoot the three ball, Wall must have at least two three ball shooters on the court with him at all times IMO. Negatives: - He's slow. He's an awkward runner who looks like he runs the floor with a foot injury. He lacks explosiveness and fluidity and has to gather himself so much to change directions or start and stop. He looks like a Looney Tunes character when he's trying to accelerate from a standstill, running in place for what feels like an eternity before he finally gets off. - He can't jump. - He doesn't have advanced ball handling skills and the ability to drive it to the rim and finish like the best SFs in the NBA. - He's not strong (yet). He'll be a good NBA player. But he's only going to be so good. He'll never be the kind of player that LeBron, Melo, or Durant are. He'll be nowhere near as good as Andrew Wiggins will be. He's probably the best we can do and our upside is probably a half decade or so of mediocrity, just outside contention while we watch the current group of future HoFers collect all of the championships until we're horrible again. :chug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I drafted Wiggins on 2k13, he was an MVP in 3 years. He'll be the next great wing for sure. Lebron, Melo, Durant, then him. ---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 02:24 PM ---------- Look at those 3's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Check out Shabazz on CBS. Tie game with less than 4 to go, Shabazz is 8-17, 18 points, 4 boards and 0 assists so far. He's got that killer instinct too, we kinda need one of those players on offense. Unselfish players are nice and all but contending teams need at least one player that says, "Give me the damn ball, I'm gonna score." Edited March 9, 2013 by SuperBash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Bait Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 anyone want to go to the game tonight? I've got an extra ticket in the lower level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I drafted Wiggins on 2k13, he was an MVP in 3 years. He'll be the next great wing for sure. Lebron, Melo, Durant, then him. He's amazing. His mixtapes look like LeBron from H.S. I don't know if he'll get as big as LeBron but he's got the same speed and ridiculous leaping ability and body control. He's a marvelous talent and he'll be the best #1 pick since LeBron. I'd probably give up the entire team to get him. But we will never, ever get him. We could win 0 games next year and not get him. We could somehow trade for 13 of the lottery picks next year and the 14th will be the one that wins. We could get the first overall pick and he'll decide to stay in school or perhaps give up basketball to pursue his dream of being a Mountie. Or if we did actually somehow get him, he'd have both his ACLs explode in a freak fall on his way up the podium on draft day after Stern reads his name. Seriously though, you know one of two things will happen: Scenario A: Dwight leaves LA for somewhere like Houston or Dallas, Lakers end up in the lottery, Andrew Wiggins is a Laker. Scenario B: Dwight stays in LA so no Wiggins for them. But Seattle fire sales off the roster, wins the lottery and gets Wiggins just in time for their big move to the Emerald City. David Stern's way of saying "sorry Seattle for letting Clay Bennett screw you over, here you go. You're welcome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 steve I completely agree with you on Otto-matic (if that's not his nickname, it should be). I think Tayshaun Prince is a good comparison but he'll be less athletic and a better three point shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I am spending my Saturday night watching the Wizards/Bobcats. Pretty sure this is a cry for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This game is boring as hell already. ---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 08:22 PM ---------- This is a brutal game to watch. Combine who the teams are with all of these fouls, and you have yourself a sleeping pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This game is boring as hell already.---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 08:22 PM ---------- This is a brutal game to watch. Combine who the teams are with all of these fouls, and you have yourself a sleeping pill. Some ugly, ugly basketball being played. Temple got the start, already back on the bench. ---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 08:54 PM ---------- Charlotte should be contracted. ---------- Post added March-9th-2013 at 09:07 PM ---------- Wall made a 3pt shot, I have been rewarded for watching this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yeah god, how can Charlotte be so much worse than us? How can an NBA team be that bad? Wall has been better on that pull up from around the top of the key. Look at Nene and Okafor getting up over the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 [/color]Wall made a 3pt shot, I have been rewarded for watching this game. haha... awesome. On a side note: we arent that far off from Charlotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 But Wall takes that jumper too early in the clock IMO. He'll be able to get that whenever the hell he wants. The defense plays off him and even when they don't, he always gets that separation from his ability to stop. I prefer when he plays pass first. Get your guys some shots, especially when they just check in the game, get them running and playing D. Wall always gets that chase down block. Can't remember the last time he didn't get it when the guy tried to lay it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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