CSM - Sex shop and strip clubs near ground zero show double standard over Park51

[Predicto]

I love how naïve people are, "if we build the mosque near ground zero, the Muslims will like us".

Who's "we"?

Some Muslims want to build their own community center on their own property with their own money.

Seems like conservatives are all about die hard support for property rights and the right of religious expression, as long as it's their own property and their favorite religion.

[SkinsHokieFan]

SHF,

I know you are a Muslim and are not a bad person but don't play naive. There are 10's of millions of muslims alone who have very racist (Jews & Israel) beliefs.

Jews couldn't build a synagogue in Washington DC until 1856

Lets be real, replace the words "Muslim" with "Jew" and these were the same discussions that were being held 60 years ago.

Euroabia in 2040? Europeans were worried Jews would take over Europe, for centuries.

So please,lets not try and pin anti Semitism on the Muslim world when its literally something that has existed since Moses

[Mickalino]

Oh cool!

Muslims vs Christians!

This never gets old. Let's see who's dick is bigger today.

~Bang

When did the Jews get eliminated from the Tournament ?

There are 10's of millions of muslims alone who have very racist (Jews & Israel) beliefs.

Johnny comes in with the save, to get us back on track

[Predicto]

SHF,

I know you are a Muslim and are not a bad person but don't play naive. There are 10's of millions of muslims alone who have very racist (Jews & Israel) beliefs.

And there are tens of millions of Christians who have very racist beliefs too. So what? They can still build their churches on their own property and freely worship there - because of our Constitution.

[Dan T.]

When did the Jews get eliminated from the Tournament ?

Mohels make sure they start out at a disadvantage. But seriously, I just flew in and boy are my arms tired.

[jnhay]

I love how naïve people are, "if we build the mosque near ground zero, the Muslims will like us".

I want to know who's saying this. Most of the arguments I've heard are based on the Constitution and morals, not wanting people to like "us." If anything that's a secondary argument.

[Johnny Punani]

Jews couldn't build a synagogue in Washington DC until 1856

Lets be real, replace the words "Muslim" with "Jew" and these were the same discussions that were being held 60 years ago.

Euroabia in 2040? Europeans were worried Jews would take over Europe, for centuries.

So please,lets not try and pin anti Semitism on the Muslim world when its literally something that has existed since Moses

But how long something existed isn't the point. What is the point is that anti-semitism is wide spread throughout the muslim world.

[Predicto]

Honestly, if it wasn't for Pam Gellar and Robert Spencer nobody would have ever given a damn.

Not AQ, not some random guy in Falls Church, nobody around the world would have even noticed.

Thanks to Geller and Spencer this issue has exploded and been the dominant issue talked about this month.

All over an Islamic Center? Where one already exists? Really?

Yes, really.

The current ability of the right wing media to push "hot button" topics, stir the soup and get people riled up is quite astounding. I am frankly in awe of their prowess. They can reach the angry populist core of the America psyche in the way we liberals have never, ever been able to do.

[SkinsHokieFan]

But how long something existed isn't the point. What is the point is that anti-semitism is wide spread throughout the muslim world.

Are we really going to have this argument today? I am really not in the mood about talking about despicable anti-semitsm. In particular in places I have never visited nor with people that I have very little connection. In particular when Jewish citizens in America are still the largest victims of religious hate crimes

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32356

In 2005, 7,163 hate crime incidents were reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Of that total, 5,190 hate crimes were committed against persons (rather than businesses) broken down as follows: 49% were intimidation; 30% were simple assault, and 21% were aggravated assault (FBI, 2006).

Racial bias motivated 55% of these hate crime incidents; religious beliefs motivated 17%; sexual orientation motivated 14%; ethnicity or nationality motivated 13% and bias based on disability motivated less than 1% (Ibid.)

Of the almost 4,900 victims motivated by race, 68% were anti-black; anti-white bias formed 20%; anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias almost 5%, and anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias 2%. The victims of religious bias-related offenses were primarily anti-Jewish (70%) and anti-Islamic (11%). (Ibid).

In 2006, 1,393 hate and bias incidents against lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) victims were reported to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs. These incidents affected 1,672 victims, committed by 2,365 offenders. (New York: National Coalition of Anti-Violence Program, 2007).

Lets me ask another question-what does the rest of the world have to do with American citizens trying to build a place of worship?

[Predicto]

But how long something existed isn't the point. What is the point is that anti-semitism is wide spread throughout the muslim world.

Yes, and in the Western World as well. As I recall, the Holocaust didn't happen in the 14th century, and Auschwitz isn't in the Muslim world either.

Historically, Muslims treated Jews far better than we Christians did. The awkward creation of Israel has changed that dynamic for the time being, but I think that it is not reasonable to say that anti-semitism inherently is a greater part of the Muslim world than of the Western world.

Plus, the whole thing is a sidetrack to the real issue: whether WE AMERICANS can stay true to our own deepest constitutional principles... or not.

[twa]

They can reach the angry populist core of the America psyche in the way we liberals have never, ever been able to do.

Ya'll manage to piss me off regularly if it makes ya feel better.

[Predicto]

Ya'll manage to piss me off regularly if it makes ya feel better.

No, actually the right wing media manages to get you pissed off (at me) regularly. I can hardly take the credit myself.

[Kilmer17]

Yes, really.

The current ability of the right wing media to push "hot button" topics, stir the soup and get people riled up is quite astounding. I am frankly in awe of their prowess. They can reach the angry populist core of the America psyche in the way we liberals have never, ever been able to do.

It's not as if the left wing doesnt want or try to do that. They just suck at it.

[10fttall]

WE AMERICANS can stay true to our own deepest constitutional principles... or not.

Yes, that's a good idea. So that means no more bellyaching about American people expressing free speech opposition to the mosque being located there.

[Predicto]

It's not as if the left wing doesnt want or try to do that. They just suck at it.

Pretty much.

[jnhay]

Yes, that's a good idea. So that means no more bellyaching about American people expressing free speech opposition to the mosque being located there.

So now you're going to try to impede my right to bellyache, but say they're fine with their bellyaching?

[twa]

It's not as if the left wing doesnt want or try to do that. They just suck at it.

Eh, more along the lines of their belief system is counter to it.

They tend less towards absolute truths,which leaves them less likely to rally except on limited issues.

[10fttall]

So now you're going to try to impede my right to bellyache, but say they're fine with their bellyaching?

Now I've got a headache!

[Predicto]

Yes, that's a good idea. So that means no more bellyaching about American people expressing free speech opposition to the mosque being located there.

That is some fantastic twisting of the issue.

"How DARE you say anything about the way I am exercising my First Amendment right to express the view that other Americans should be denied their First Amendment rights? I'm the aggrieved party!"

However, you are correct. You do have an absolute First Amendment right to express the view that other people should be denied their First Amendment rights.

In fact, I may not agree with your attempt to deny other people their rights, but I will defend to the death your right to stand out in the public square and openly say that other Americans should be denied their rights. It is my duty as an American.

Of course, I will continue to exercise my First Amendment right to express the view that you are being intolerant and repulsive.

[twa]

That is some fantastic twisting of the issue.

Liberals

You having the freedom to do something does not restrict my right to show opposition....a right does not mandate public approval.

[Kilmer17]

I express my right to say the govt has no right to prevent P from exercising his right to call out anyone for calling out people who called out those who oppose the right of others to talk about why people want to build a mosque.

And I'll fight anyone who tries to take away my right to do so.

[Predicto]

Liberals

You having the freedom to do something does not restrict my right to show opposition....a right does not mandate public approval.

Of course. That's what I said. :laugh:

[Predicto]

I express my right to say the govt has no right to prevent P from exercising his right to call out anyone for calling out people who called out those who oppose the right of others to talk about why people want to build a mosque.

And I'll fight anyone who tries to take away my right to do so.

I think you got the quote wrong. You are supposed to be defending to the death MY right to be wrong, not YOUR right to be wrong.

[Kilmer17]

I think you got the quote wrong. You are supposed to be defending to the death MY right to be wrong, not YOUR right to be wrong.

Socialist.

[Predicto]

And I will continue to exercise my First Amendment right to think that the point being made in the opening post is stupid. So there! :beatdeadhorse: