Baltimore Sun : DOJ Officer Shoots Dog... While Fenced In at a Dog Park...

[Redskins Diehard]

I'm with these guys, RD. This dude had his leash in hand but felt it was more prudent to fire away. He endangered the lives of the people around him (even his wife's) a lot more than any dog did. I don't think an investigation will reveal much more than that. If you shot a dog at a dog park you'd be waiting on bail and your name would be in the newspapers.

This case walks and talks like a duck but let's give his fellow federal officers enough time to fashion a swan.

Alright, if you want to assume that a swan is on the way then there isn't much to do to convince you otherwise. I find it interesting that many believe in innocent until proven guilty right up to the point that a law enforcement official is involved. Recklessness with a firearm is a dangerous thing. No doubt about it. Endangering human life to protect a dog is not justified in my opinion, although at least a few people here think it is. You seem to think that I am saying the guy did nothing wrong. I am not. I am saying 2 things...1) Give the "system" a chance to work before saying it is broken 2) Human life is more valuable than an animal's life. That is it.

As far as federal officers doing the investigation. I am pretty sure it is Anne Arundel county doing the investigation at this point. I do not think, contrary to what people in this thread might believe, shooting a dog is a federal offense.

[Redskins Diehard]

I'm pretty sure breaking up dogs that are rough housing isn't one of the good reasons to discharge a fire arm in a public park.

Police are not hired to protect the safety of other dogs, otherwise cops would be shooting dogs on a daily basis.

Okay, you just switched back. "Dogs rough housing" is you word and the word of the dearly departed Bear-Bear's "relative". I'm pretty sure that is the only "evidence" you are going on at this time.

[generaltso]

hmmmmm heckled by the swabbies at the bar. he'll be the laughing stock of the barbary coast wars.

like this dude even got two glass eyes

or he wearing his patch on the wrong side

[Chachie]

As far as federal officers doing the investigation. I am pretty sure it is Anne Arundel county doing the investigation at this point. I do not think, contrary to what people in this thread might believe, shooting a dog is a federal offense.

I didn't say feds were doing the investigation. I said they'd be able to fashion a swan out of this duck. You can muddy the picture all you want with snarky replies but this "investigation" is moot without charges being filed. Mighty convenient for our DOJ guy. The rug is lifted and the dirt is going under.

Okay, you just switched back. "Dogs rough housing" is you word and the word of the dearly departed Bear-Bear's "relative". I'm pretty sure that is the only "evidence" you are going on at this time.

The local animal control official examined both dogs and found zero scratches or bite marks on them. That's called "zero evidence."

Unless of course you count the bullet hole which would indeed fall under the category "evidence." Something Anne Arundel police apparently deem irrelevant. The tangible should dictate this "investigation" not the wait-and-see.

[Destino]

Why shouldn't I be allowed to protect my "best friend" and "family member" from your "best friend" and "family member"? If we are going to treat the victim of the shooting like a person shouldn't we treat all the dogs in there as a person?

Who said you couldn't protect your dog? Have you ever been to a dog park, people have to pull dogs apart all the time. These untrained civilians including soccer moms, old people, and teenagers are able to protect their "family member" and "best friends" without drawing a weapon and blasting away. Imagine that.

I think you forgot to type something in the last part. I think you missed something in the last paragraph that you quoted. We don't know what happened. As you pointed out in your very first post here... You don't know if he did anything right or wrong. Neither does anyone else at this point

I didn't miss anything. I was mocking how ridiculously low you set the bar for this individual to be excused.

[Destino]

The local animal control official examined both dogs and found zero scratches or bite marks on them. That's called "zero evidence."

Unless of course you count the bullet hole which would indeed fall under the category "evidence." Something Anne Arundel police apparently deem irrelevant. The tangible should dictate this "investigation" not the wait-and-see.

So the shooter and his dog had no injuries at all... is there anything other than the shooters word supporting the claim that he (or his dog) was in so much danger that it justified discharging a firearm?

[Chachie]

So the shooter and his dog had no injuries at all... is there anything other than the shooters word supporting the claim that he (or his dog) was in so much danger that it justified discharging a firearm?

No. There isn't. We're on the same side, Desty.

[Ellis]

maybe his wife could shed an opinion on the matter.

[JimboDaMan]

maybe his wife could shed an opinion on the matter.

"Shed". Ha ha, you said "shed".

[Chachie]

maybe his wife could shed an opinion on the matter.

I'm sure she's too terrified to speak on this matter. She just watched her husband go Clint Eastwood on a playful husky at a dog park.

[Ellis]

The only changes to this story so far is that the Officer has been placed on Administrative Leave.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-breaking-news/maryland/officer-who-shot-dog-placed-on.html

[Redskins Diehard]

Who said you couldn't protect your dog? Have you ever been to a dog park, people have to pull dogs apart all the time. These untrained civilians including soccer moms, old people, and teenagers are able to protect their "family member" and "best friends" without drawing a weapon and blasting away. Imagine that.

I didn't miss anything. I was mocking how ridiculously low you set the bar for this individual to be excused.

Okay, if you equate killing an animal to killing a person, which people in this thread have done...then you have to equate protecting an animal to protecting a person. You feel that Bear-Bear's family should be outraged that a member of their family was killed. But I haven't seen you mention any consideration that this dude was protecting his "kid".

No, actually you clearly did miss something. And you continue to.

[Destino]

Okay, if you equate killing an animal to killing a person, which people in this thread have done...then you have to equate protecting an animal to protecting a person. You feel that Bear-Bear's family should be outraged that a member of their family was killed. But I haven't seen you mention any consideration that this dude was protecting his "kid".

I have not equated those things but even if we do your logic is flawed. If dogs = kids then one kid APPEARED to be getting aggressive towards another and got shot for it. The "kid" that was defended was never injured in any way. It was a "preemptive" shooting of a "kid" to defend another "kid".

That would be murder. Being that we are talking about dogs however this gets more complicated. Because people say stupid **** like "it's just a dog" and lose sight of the fact that someone shot a dog in a dog park for in essence acting like a dog in an area designated for such things.

No, actually you clearly did miss something. And you continue to.

No. I completely understand your little angry fence sitter routine and mocked how low you set the bar to clear the DOJ employee. You presented a scenario in which he would have acted wrongly in your opinion, that everyone knows didn't happen based on the victim's statement alone.

[Redskins Diehard]

I have not equated those things but even if we do your logic is flawed. If dogs = kids then one kid APPEARED to be getting aggressive towards another and got shot for it. The "kid" that was defended was never injured in any way. It was a "preemptive" shooting of a "kid" to defend another "kid".

That would be murder. Being that we are talking about dogs however this gets more complicated. Because people say stupid **** like "it's just a dog" and lose sight of the fact that someone shot a dog in a dog park for in essence acting like a dog in an area designated for such things.

No. I completely understand your little angry fence sitter routine and mocked how low you set the bar to clear the DOJ employee. You presented a scenario in which he would have acted wrongly in your opinion, that everyone knows didn't happen based on the victim's statement alone.

Actually you don't. I haven't cleared anyone. Nor have I convicted anyone. What I have said is that I do not believe that it is okay to just kill any dog for no reason.

What gets you mad is not that a dog was killed in a dog park. What gets you mad is an off duty law enforcement officer is involved. In your early post you acknowledged you didn't know whether he did anything wrong. But you have since abandoned that position without any further facts coming to light. You were concerned about a lack of investigation, which is ongoing.

This, like Tshamba is not a case of a law enforcement officer being heavy handed in performance of his duty. The shooting of Bear-Bear is not the beating of Rodney King or shooting of Sean Bell. The fact that you can't, or won't, differentiate clearly illustrates your agenda. You jump to the same predetermined conclusion every time one of these threads come up.

[Chachie]

Okay, if you equate killing an animal to killing a person, which people in this thread have done...

Are you still trying to work this angle? Those people piped down a couple pages ago. You are now speaking to the folks who have known the difference throughout. Get some new material, RD.

[Redskins Diehard]

Are you still trying to work this angle? Those people piped down a couple pages ago. You are now speaking to the folks who have known the difference throughout. Get some new material, RD.

Just responding to other people piping up to my responses to the first people that were piping up. I'm not working any angle...I am angrily sitting on the fence waiting for information to come out...the horror of that proposition.

This guy put people at risk so he should have a really good reason to have pulled out his gun and discharged rounds. So far there has been one side of the story presented. Just like so many people in this thread I think things would be different if it were John Q. Public instead of John Q. Law involved....I think more people would share the let the facts come out viewpoint.

[Destino]

Actually you don't. I haven't cleared anyone. Nor have I convicted anyone. What I have said is that I do not believe that it is okay to just kill any dog for no reason.

What you said is:

"I definitely agree that if he walked into the park and busted a cap in Bear-Bear's ass for no reason then it definitely is a problem."

Which is like saying "puppies are cute". Obviously if the guy simply wandered into a dog park and shot a dog and walked off that would be a problem. Being that the first post in this thread mentioned:

"Bear-Bear, a brown and white Husky that’s about three years old, was playing in the Quail Run dog park at about 6:30 p.m., running off leash inside the fenced-in area, when the officer and his wife arrived with a German Shepherd, who was kept on a leash. When the dogs began to play roughly — the federal officer asked Bear-Bear’s guardian, his owner’s brother, to call off the dog. But before he could do anything, the officer pulled out a gun and shot Bear-Bear."

We know that your scenario for what would constitute "a problem" isn't the case. This is why I laughed at how low you had set the bar. I assume you're smart enough to know that EVERYONE agrees that he didn't just walk into a dog park for no reason what-so-ever and shoot a dog. There a no reports of him stealing candy from babies or telling teenage girls that their pants made them look fat either. Though I haven't heard reports to the contrary so we should wait for more information I guess. :pfft:

What gets you mad is not that a dog was killed in a dog park. What gets you mad is an off duty law enforcement officer is involved.

What are you trying to get in my head now? Here's a thought, check out any thread on animal welfare on this forum. Let me know how many include off duty cops and see if you can find a correlation to prove this laughable theory of yours. News flash: it's the fact that a dog was harmed needlessly that pissed me off. If the "off duty cop" had been a gun toting grandma I'd be just as annoyed... especially if in less than 48 hours the local authorities had announced no wrong doing only to reverse that statement in response to public interest (political pressure).

In your early post you acknowledged you didn't know whether he did anything wrong. But you have since abandoned that position without any further facts coming to light. You were concerned about a lack of investigation, which is ongoing.

New information came up throughout the thread.

1 - initially the authorities, via a spokesperson, announced that no evidence of wrong doing had been found. Then the paper ran it and suddenly the police chief is taking questions on this on a radio show. Suddenly the investigation is ongoing. Imagine that.

2 - I didn't know that the shooters dog and the shooter himself had received no injuries at all. None. My dogs have been bitten at dog parks in minor altercations. For a gun to be drawn and discharged and it to be argued responsible one would think some physical evidence of an aggressive attack would be needed. According to the latest there is none. Do you dispute that these facts were presented later in the thread?

This, like Tshamba is not a case of a law enforcement officer being heavy handed in performance of his duty.

I never claimed that either involved an officer on duty.

The shooting of Bear-Bear is not the beating of Rodney King or shooting of Sean Bell. The fact that you can't, or won't, differentiate clearly illustrates your agenda. You jump to the same predetermined conclusion every time one of these threads come up.

Let me know when I'm proven wrong. I also said that the kids that beat an illegal immigrant to death in PA were murderers and was told I was wrong by everyone... turned out the cops in the case had worked to help them get off and not the cops and kids are all up on federal charges. Not every situation in life is all that difficult to figure out... though if new evidence shows up I'm happy to reevaluate.

And here is one that will really annoying you: sometimes I think the courts get things wrong too. HOW DARE I QUESTION THEM?! I dare.

[Teller]

NBC4 just reported that the officer has been placed on administrative leave. I hope the investigation is thorough and fair.

[GoSkins561]

What is fair in your opinion?

[Chachie]

Just responding to other people piping up to my responses to the first people that were piping up. I'm not working any angle...I am angrily sitting on the fence waiting for information to come out...the horror of that proposition.

I want you to know that I do hear you and I do know I'm going the emotional road and it runs under your rational road when they cross. I even think the guy was genuinely scared for a second when Bear bit at him. Huskies are vocal. I lived with one for 4 years so I know. In the original article something was said about huskies being very aggressive and vocal when playing and this undoubtedly caused the heightened awareness by DOJ and wife. I can easily deduce that this was the dog's "fault" even if he didn't actually bite DOJ. They emote and overreact.

Wait for it.. wait for it..

Here's the rub- The guy took one second of being startled and a little hurt and turned it into 15 seconds of shame. He did indeed abuse the privilege and responsibility he carries with that badge and gun. He freaked out and shot a dog. Not even totally inexcusable except for the fact that he was at a dog park. I feel pretty safe saying he's been to a picnic and seen two dogs roughhousing. I honestly feel safe saying he spent 1 second scared and 9 seconds angry while unholstering, aiming, and firing. If he'd waited 5 more seconds- 5 more seconds even just aiming at a stupid, overexcited dog (at a DOG park) this would never have happened. The reason I feel safe saying these things are two fold..

1. This "investigation" won't amount to much because it was a dog. The administrative leave thing is for the benefit of all the dog lovers out there. I don't think he should lose his job or his pay or anything anyway. I'm not sure what kind of action should be taken but maybe some desk time with no boom stick for a while. I doubt he'll even get that which saddens me.

2. This is an internet message board, not a court of law. The guy shot a dog. Your shock that folks are peeved and kneejerking surprises me. If he'd shot a dog in a movie we were at you would follow me to the exits and you know it!

I hope you know this post isn't designed to incite more cyber vitriol but only to bridge us in discussion. We are both here for the Redskins after all.

(But dude did shoot a dog for playing rough at a dog park. With a bunch of people around. There! I got one more in!) :evilg:

[[[ghost]]]

This happened right around teh corner from me. Haven't heard a thing about it around Amills.

[Teller]

What is fair in your opinion?

Thorough examination of the facts, with no pre-judgment either way (thin blue line or crucify him) going in.

[HSW]

this is the sort of context that drives me nuts.

Its a dog. A dog. A dog.

As people get more vehement in their defence of their canine "members of their family" i get driven more and more into the "its a piece of personal property" camp. I am much more concerned that someone is looking to make sure that correct firearms procedures were followed (and no humans were put in danger from the possiblity of an errant shot) than for the dog.

Its a dog.

+1

[Skin'Em84]

I figured the discharge of a weapon was a big deal...

Cops can't just fire off a round when they feel like it.

What the hell are you doing pointing out the obvious?

Jeez.. some people's kids..

~Bang

The dog was someone's pet too. That should make a difference.

[HailtoClark#84]

Looks like the dog I used to have years ago.

P***es me off!

No justice here.

In Baltimore??Nuff said.