Nfl.com- Gil Brandt predicts afc west title for Oakland

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I can see them in the playoffs ...team is not as bad as some think you never know in the NFL

Most here don't follow or even watch any Raiders games, they only know it's run by Al Davis and has a long streak of double-digit losing seasons. I don't actually follow them either, but living in California I've seen my share of Russell-led Raiders games and, hoo boy lol ...

[Mursilis]

Except for that part where you walked it back to bash your favorite player.

Does anyone else find BLC's outright obsession with JC to be beyond bizarre? It just reeks of a huge secret and scorned man-crush. He just can't seem to let go.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You completely misread his post.

He didn't say Russell started the majority of the Raiders' wins...he said the Raiders had 5 wins with Russell starting the majority of the games. What that means is that essentially the Raiders threw away any real chance of winning in 9 games last year...and they won 5 games. Tossing Russell off the team should result in a best-case scenario of FAR more than merely one extra win.

and my point was russell wasnt the SOLE reason they lost many games. russell started 9, they won 2. in the other 7, they won 3. a little better? sure. but that team is terrible anyways, and a QB like campbell isnt going to fix much.

it just seems people have deluded themselves yet again into thinking campbell is going to be some big contributor and a huge upgrade for them just because count jamarcula is the worst QB ever. there isnt a QB in the NFL that wasnt an upgrade over him.

so instead of losing games 38-3 theyll just be losing 31-17 now. if losing less embarrassingly is exciting for raiders fans, they should be very excited now.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Does anyone else find BLC's outright obsession with JC to be beyond bizarre? It just reeks of a huge secret and scorned man-crush. He just can't seem to let go.

as long as people continue to tell me how good and how much of an upgrade he is, rest assured if i see it ill gladly chime in to lol.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Most here don't follow or even watch any Raiders games, they only know it's run by Al Davis and has a long streak of double-digit losing seasons. I don't actually follow them either, but living in California I've seen my share of Russell-led Raiders games and, hoo boy lol ...

its beyond just their players. their defense is so risky and leaves them susceptible to blow outs, and their offense (at least previously) was still rooted in 1982. its why they are the place for players to go and die.

randy moss is still the prime example. everyone thought he was finished. turns out he was just living in oakland.

[Mahons21]

Does anyone else find BLC's outright obsession with JC to be beyond bizarre? It just reeks of a huge secret and scorned man-crush. He just can't seem to let go.

-The lengths people are going to and have gone to in order to portray JC both as a victim and an above average NFL QB are much more bizarre. I can't think of a single QB in NFL history who has had anywhere near the amount of leeway Campbell has had from both the team and fanbase.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

and my point was russell wasnt the SOLE reason they lost many games. russell started 9, they won 2. in the other 7, they won 3. a little better? sure. but that team is terrible anyways, and a QB like campbell isnt going to fix much.

No, that wasn't your point at all lol ...When BigBlue correctly pointed out that the Raiders won 5 games last year even though Russell started 9 of them, here's how you responded:

again, with 12 seconds of research youd know how wrong this is. jamarcus started 2 of their wins, gradkowski started 2 of their wins, and charlie frye started 1 win.

russell started 9 games, and was pulled in 1 of those 9 and never started again.

What, prey tell, would "12 seconds of research" have shown him? Yep...it would have shown him how many games Russell, Gradkowski and the other sorry-ass QBs on the Raiders started--and won--last season.

And for the record, 3 wins in 7 games is a .43% winning percentage. 2 wins in 9 games is a .22% winning percentage. Basically what that says is that the Raiders win twice as many games when ANYONE but Russell was the starter lol...that's more than just "a little better".

it just seems people have deluded themselves yet again into thinking campbell is going to be some big contributor and a huge upgrade for them just because count jamarcula is the worst QB ever. there isnt a QB in the NFL that wasnt an upgrade over him.

VERY few people have said they're convinced Campbell will be anything close to a "big contributor", but yes, many feel he is a significant upgrade over Russell, and why shouldn't they? Hell, even you have no qualms in portraying Russell as the "worst QB ever". If Campbell is NOT a significant upgrade over him then that means JC is, what...the 2nd or 3rd worst QB ever? lol ...Yeah, ok.

here's a fact that another 12 seconds of research would point out: In 5 of the 6 losses in which Russell started and the Raiders lost by 8 points or more, he had yard per attempt averages of--get this:

2.9

3.9

5.5

5.0

2.8

That is waaaaay beyond atrocious. And to add to that atrociousness, here's another "12 second stat": Percentage of throws that went for 1st downs:

Campbell - 36.7% (11th best in the league)

Russell - 23.6% (dead last in the league)

Try and imagine this, seriously (and I mean everyone lol)...a QB who throws for 3 stinkin' yards per attempt and who only completes 23% of his passes for 1st downs. Insert vomit emoticon here lol...But, yeah, it's ludicrous for anyone to think that Campbell will be a significant upgrade over that level of production, you're right. He's just a small, minor upgrade at best.

[tr1]

No, that wasn't your point at all lol ...When BigBlue correctly pointed out that the Raiders won 5 games last year even though Russell started 9 of them, here's how you responded:

What, prey tell, would "12 seconds of research" have shown him? Yep...it would have shown him how many games Russell, Gradkowski and the other sorry-ass QBs on the Raiders started--and won--last season.

And for the record, 3 wins in 7 games is a .43% winning percentage. 2 wins in 9 games is a .22% winning percentage. Basically what that says is that the Raiders win twice as many games when ANYONE but Russell was the starter lol...that's more than just "a little better".

VERY few people have said they're convinced Campbell will be anything close to a "big contributor", but yes, many feel he is a significant upgrade over Russell, and why shouldn't they? Hell, even you have no qualms in portraying Russell as the "worst QB ever". If Campbell is NOT a significant upgrade over him then that means JC is, what...the 2nd or 3rd worst QB ever? lol ...Yeah, ok.

here's a fact that another 12 seconds of research would point out: In 5 of the 6 losses in which Russell started and the Raiders lost by 8 points or more, he had yard per attempt averages of--get this:

2.9

3.9

5.5

5.0

2.8

That is waaaaay beyond atrocious. And to add to that atrociousness, here's another "12 second stat": Percentage of throws that went for 1st downs:

Campbell - 36.7% (11th best in the league)

Russell - 23.6% (dead last in the league)

Try and imagine this, seriously (and I mean everyone lol)...a QB who throws for 3 stinkin' yards per attempt and who only completes 23% of his passes for 1st downs. Insert vomit emoticon here lol...But, yeah, it's ludicrous for anyone to think that Campbell will be a significant upgrade over that level of production, you're right. He's just a small, minor upgrade at best.

Califan, BLC doesn't like logic or facts...best just laugh like the rest of us at his posts and let him slither into message board oblivion...

[SonnyJ]

No, that wasn't your point at all lol ...When BigBlue correctly pointed out that the Raiders won 5 games last year even though Russell started 9 of them, here's how you responded:...

Great research as usual, Califan. Doesn't matter, though. After seeing Campbell up close and personal for 4 seasons, it is clear that, while Campbell may produce significantly better stats than Russell, it is highly doubtful that he will bump up point production to the point that will allow the Raiders to win a majority of their games.

Unless the Raider D can routinely hold opposing teams to 14 points or less, than the Raiders, with Campbell at QB, will lose more often than not. Just as the stats show how awful Russell is, they also show that a Campbell-led offense is a meager point producer.

[Spartacus87]

Gil Brandt is roughly 95 years old and continues to lose his credibility as the years go by.

He had a useful opinion in 1995. Now he just slobbers on the Cowboys as his fall back plan and blatantly steals Football Outsiders articles and ideas to try and pass off as his own.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think the people ripping Gil Brandt fully understand how silly it makes them look.

[ntotoro]

Does anyone else find BLC's outright obsession with JC to be beyond bizarre? It just reeks of a huge secret and scorned man-crush. He just can't seem to let go.

No less odd than people who think Oakland is now headed to the playoffs because of the presence of a guy who has only proven he can take a hit and is a stand-up guy.

[Spartacus87]

I don't think the people ripping Gil Brandt fully understand how silly it makes them look.

And why is that?

[darrelgreenie]

And why is that?

If you need me or anyone to tell you why then you either don't know or lack respect the proper respect for Gil Brandt.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Gil is just doing his fellow AARP member Al a solid.

[jflow78]

Of course I lack respect for a former Cowboy FO man. Unless he saves the world, regardless of how much he's done for the precious Cowboys, he can still kiss my ***.

Sorry if I'm a Redskins fan that doesn't agree with a Dallas man, I guess that's a first. But Brandt has been wrong many times before, and will be on Oakland this year as well. Those who think because he's Gil Brandt you should agree with everything he says, obviously don't know how ridiculous it makes them sound. wink wink;)

[Spartacus87]

If you need me or anyone to tell you why then you either don't know or lack respect the proper respect for Gil Brandt.

Is this real?

So because he was an excellent personnel man in the 70s and 80s, he gets some kind of eternal pass for things he says in 2010?

Yeah, I don't think that's how it works. Especially when he's doing things like blatantly stealing material from new, more advanced metric websites:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings/2007/familiar-words

In Pro Football Prospectus 2006, we ran an article by David Lewin that introduced a new system for projecting rookie quarterbacks based on college statistics. As far as we know, this research was the first of its kind. We've talked a lot about the college quarterback projection system since then. We feel it is one of the signature pieces of Football Outsiders research, on the same level as DVOA ratings, the third-down rebound theory, and the inconsistency of fumble recovery.

As some of you may know, three weeks ago Gil Brandt wrote an article on NFL.com previewing quarterbacks for the draft. This article contained a section about projecting rookie quarterbacks based on college games started and completion percentage that resembled David Lewin's research.

Since this article ran on April 26, FO has not commented on the Brandt article publicly. However, it is now three weeks since this article ran. Although our editors at ESPN The Magazine are still trying to settle this matter with NFL.com, we feel that we need to say something before our research is permanently identified with another writer.

But hey, he found Everson Walls in 1980, so it's cool.

[darrelgreenie]

Is this real?

So because he was an excellent personnel man in the 70s and 80s, he gets some kind of eternal pass for things he says in 2010?

But hey, he found Everson Walls in 1980, so it's cool.

This might be news to you but Gil Brandt is still widely considered as one of the sharpest talent evaluators today and his football opinion is still well respected by most football people; excluding you i guess.

That crazy old dude just happened to basically create the NFL combine.

And accomplished and respected football guys in their own right like Mike Mayock and Mike Lombardi speak about Gil Brandt with down right reverence.

And no he wouldn't get a pass IF he actual said something that was crazy.

And BTW the thread title isn't a direct quote from Brandt so what exactly did he say that has you all in a tizzy?

This is what Brandt said about the Raiders:

Ryan, NJ

12:01 PM ET

If both Marcus McNeil and Vincent Jackson holdout until week 10, what would be your guess for the final standings in the AFC West?

Gil Brandt, NFL.com

Hi Ryan, if that were to happen, I think you'd see the Oakland Raiders at the top of the AFC West. San Diego probably finishes second, followed by Kansas City and Denver.

[Spartacus87]

This might be news to you but Gil Brandt is still widely considered as one of the sharpest talent evaluators today and his football opinion is still well respected by most football people; excluding you i guess.

That crazy old dude just happened to basically create the NFL combine.

And accomplished and respected football guys in their own right like Mike Mayock and Mike Lombardi speak about Gil Brandt with down right reverence.

And no he wouldn't get a pass IF he actual said something that was crazy.

And BTW the thread title isn't a direct quote from Brandt so what exactly did he say that has you all in a tizzy?

This is what Brandt said about the Raiders:

If both Marcus McNeil and Vincent Jackson holdout until week 10, what would be your guess for the final standings in the AFC West?

Hi Ryan, if that were to happen, I think you'd see the Oakland Raiders at the top of the AFC West. San Diego probably finishes second, followed by Kansas City and Denver.

That's great that Brandt did all that stuff back in the day. I'm well aware of his accomplishments and what he's contributed to the game.

All I did was make a quick remark about Brandt starting to lose his marbles in recent years, and these were your following responses:

I don't think the people ripping Gil Brandt fully understand how silly it makes them look.

If you need me or anyone to tell you why then you either don't know or lack respect the proper respect for Gil Brandt.

So you're probably the one who should pump the brakes here.

I'm sorry that I don't hold Brandt as a football deity, especially in recent years when he's doing things like outright stealing from Football Outsiders and passing it off as his own expertise (note: I'm clearly not mentioning or diminishing anything the guy did 30 years ago, we're talking about 2010 here), but you don't need to start quoting things in bold, large font with bright colors. I can read it just fine.

It's like people joking on John Madden for the stuff he was saying before he finally left the booth. Nobody jokes on him because they're trying to tear him down, these guys just get older and start to say crazier things. Gil Brandt just happens to write his recently crazy pieces for NFL.com rather than say it on national TV broadcasts.

So relax. We're all just having some fun here talking about the Raiders, Campbell, and Brandt. Just please don't start highlighting, enlarging, and underlining any more posts.

[darrelgreenie]

Gil Brandt just happens to write his recently crazy pieces for NFL.com rather than say it on national TV broadcasts.

I'm still waiting to hear/read what Brandt said in regards to this thread that you think is crazy?

So relax. We're all just having some fun here talking about the Raiders, Campbell, and Brandt. Just please don't start highlighting, enlarging, and underlining any more posts.

Nah, i'm cool by all means poke fun, but i don't see anyhthing worthy of poking fun at from his comments about the Raiders from the hypothetical situation presented to him in the question.

And its bolded and highlighted b/c it appears that you missed that part of the question and his answer.

But don't let something like the truth stop you from your jokes.

HTTR!

[Oldfan]

Campbell is an average QB. He should improve Oakland since they didn't have an average QB.

A rebound this year wouldn't surprise me since they had a good offseason on paper.

[SWFLSkins]

July

With defensive tackles' value rising, 2010 draft to feature bumper crop July 29, 2009

Dave Weaver / Associated Press Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh doesn't only stuff the run and rush the passer, he can also intercept passes. Editor's note: This is part of a weekly series detailing the top senior prospects, by position, for the 2010... more

Sackmaster Thomas was all smiles. Opposing QBs? Not so much July 23, 2009

I first met Derrick Thomas in May 1988 at a preseason All-America weekend in Miami. On the first day, after arriving in town for a photo shoot that took place after sundown at what was then Joe Robbie Stadium, a group of us decided to go out for a late dinner. The group... more

Rising number of 3-4 defenses has impact on 2010 DE prospects July 23, 2009

Tony Ding / Associated Press Michigan's Brandon Graham has an impressive work ethic and was the Wolverines' MVP last season. Editor's note: This is part of a weekly series detailing the top senior prospects, by position, for the 2010 NFL... more

Skip forward to 2010...

July

Defensive line crop has plenty of talent to offer in 2011 July 08, 2010

Charlie Neibergall / Associated Press Iowa's Adrian Clayborn reached double digits in sacks and tackles for loss last season, which has scouts intrigued. Editor's note: This is the fourth in a weekly series detailing the top senior prospects, by... more

___________________________________________

Other than being a Cowboy homer(to be expected) I don't see where this guy has lost it. I found some interesting read on the 3-4 and DL prospects.

Linky...

http://www.nfl.com/news/author?id=09000d5d80026e07

[SWFLSkins]

Campbell is an average QB. He should improve Oakland since they didn't have an average QB.

A rebound this year wouldn't surprise me since they had a good offseason on paper.

I would not be surprised for Oak. to take a step forward while Den. and S.D. both go backwards. Oak. winning the division would not suprise nor impress me considering where the other teams are at. KC will improve as well. So it is a toss up as to which team or teams has that second gear.

[Hooper]

Football Outsiders nails it in their new almanac.

"And so it came to pass that Al Davis, whose one offensive dictate is to throw deep at all costs, did trade for Campbell, whose most glaring shortcoming is a pathological unwillingness to throw more than 20 yards downfield. And lo, it was fated that Campbell, cursed to wander from offensive system to system, once again had to learn a new offense. And Campbell did gamely try to throw passes to Darrius Heyward-Bey and Louis Murphy, but when those passes fell to earth, he lapsed into old habits, throwing six-yard passes to Zach Miller on third-and-15. And Davis’ heart did harden, and he ordered the dismissals of Campbell, Tom Cable, and anyone else upon whom his disfavor fell. And Campbell’s journey continued; to this day, there’s a veteran listed fourth on a minicamp depth chart somewhere, and he answers to Campbell’s name, and he is a figure of pity."

They also point out that "as bad as Washington’s pass protection was in 2009, Oakland’s was worse. Only injury-riddled Buffalo had a worse Adjusted Sack Rate than the Raiders."

[skinsforlife101]

I can’t see the Raiders winning more than 7 games Campbell is only a slight upgrade from Gradkowski. Plus the Raiders have a hard non conference schedule playing Pittsburg, Miami, Tennessee, Indianapolis, Houston, and San Francisco (who will be improved). Most likely the Chargers will win the AFC West.