WP: Ray Lewis Weighs in on Haynesworth "Football is Football Man"

[addicted]

Except it oversimplifies the whole situation.

First it's a business...agents deal with teams all the time. This isn't elementary school. It's a business.

Disrespect goes both ways. IFFF Shanny didn't talk directly to Albert, well Albert then didn't talk directly to Shanny either. BOTH were disrespected. It's not a one way street. Regardless, both sides knew there was an issue. I can't blame either side. But if you sign a contract you ought to honor it????

I completely agree with this but you have it twisted...

What are leaders supposed to do? Lead by example. What is the role of head coach in the league? Leader

Now you can argue that both were wrong, sounds like something I've said repeatedly, but the problem here is most everyone wants to give Shannahan and Allen a pass and put this completely and solely at the feet of a 20 something year old man instead of sharing the blame. Who should be expected to do the right thing? Both parties. Who is shouldering all of the blame, one side. To me that's not right.

Point out in my posts where I have said Albert wasn't wrong to not show up last week. What I have been trying to do is point our to the hundreds of posters who simply see this as a simple issue and show them another perspective and complicate it. We are dealing with a complex issue, not a simple one. To think that this is just a single issue of Albert not showing up last week is not understanding what has been happening over the past few years and months with this team.

Oversimplfying this is giving Snyder, Allen, and Shanny zero blame and that's exactly what I try and not do. All along I've said share the blame because there is plenty to go around. The team is not always right, the owner is not always right, the player is not always wrong. It's easy to fall into that trap and believe the player is always wrong but the preconceived notion that all athletes are selfish, greedy, and lazy is what is behind the hatred towards Albert and it's high time that someone spoke up about the owner and what he's been doing around here over the years while it's going on and said something. I believe you should see both sides in this argument, not just the teams.

Trust me on the eve of a collective bargaining agreement, there are players in this league who are being negatively impacted by the moves of Haynesworth...and they would love to give him a what for.

Most definitely. I see this with Albert as possible grounds for changing how contracts are written, grounds for owners refusing to give big contracts to Free Agents, grounds for including provisions for voiding contracts for mini camp, as just some examples of how this issue is much larger then just the Redskins and Albert. Too bad most people don't see this right now but I said a few days ago, I think this could very well be one of the reasons there is NOT a strike shut out next year. The owners got a blessing with this one, if the NFLPA decides to break it's rule book and side with them on this. Albert hurt his fellow players, but that doesn't mean that the Redskins aren't also guilty.

Uh and yes there is the contract. It's much more complicated than a feel good post on humanity on a message board. To defend it as such is just silly.

Agents represent their players daily in the NFL. They don't have a big hug session like in preschool. It's money and legal contracts. Haynesworth is hurting the new CBA. And a lot of players will make him pay.

Neither is writing a disguised threatening post with zero details and saying that I am over simplifying anything must be a joke right? I don't see how you could have come to any of the conclusions you actually have and not say more then this. I guess this was just a fly by posting huh? You seem more intelligent then most posters but you saying I don't "get it" is laughable. Buddy I get it, I'm one of the few that openly admits "getting it", sounds like you do as well. It's the hundreds of knuckleheads who post "Fat Albert eats Twinkies" and other nonsense that just don't "get it" and over simplify. Don't group me in that, I don't deserve it.

[Forever21]

I'm a bit shocked at the full throated support that AH is getting from a few.

But then again OJ has supporters too. All *******s end up having a small band of brothers who support them even when they're showing their true colours and are so obviously in the wrong.

And yes I'm using hyperbole to make my point so don't come at me with "are you seriously comparing AH to OJ?" quotes please.

[gortiz]

Oh Ray and that Miami education. So eloquent. I'm a big fan of Ray Lewis but this made my head spin...

"Sometimes you got to do things you ain't want to do to get something you ain't never got. So be ok with it. But you can't always win selfishly. If you always win selfishly, then I don't know what the walk of Jesus ever represented then...."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/06/ray_lewis_on_haynesworth.html

get over it man ... people are so damn petty, picky, and petulant.

P's were not harmed during writing of this post ...

you know what the man does for a living, he's a human crusher. you want eloquent language, go to a tennis message board.

[NavyDave]

I'm a bit shocked at the full throated support that AH is getting from a few.

But then again OJ has supporters too. All *******s end up having a small band of brothers who support them even when they're showing their true colours and are so obviously in the wrong.

And yes I'm using hyperbole to make my point so don't come at me with "are you seriously comparing AH to OJ?" quotes please.

I'm shocked that most of you are blowing a gasket in June.

Yes OJ has Supporters just as Ray Lewis has skins fans showing him love because he took the easy route to join in on the AH bashing. (both OJ and Ray should be in jail for murder)

comparing AH to OJ is not any more foolish than comparing curling to a credible sport.

[Hitman21ST]

comparing AH to OJ is not any more foolish than comparing curling to a credible sport.

Does it need to be a credible sport?

If this is too racy, mods, I'll take it down with apologies.

[Forever21]

I'm shocked that most of you are blowing a gasket in June.

Yes OJ has Supporters just as Ray Lewis has skins fans showing him love because he took the easy route to join in on the AH bashing. (both OJ and Ray should be in jail for murder)

comparing AH to OJ is not any more foolish than comparing curling to a credible sport.

Dave! Man curling rules! You obviously haven't tried it because it's a ton of fun and ridiculously hard!

[NavyDave]

Dave! Man curling rules! You obviously haven't tried it because it's a ton of fun and ridiculously hard!

Yes it is fun but so is strip scrabble or naked twister, but they should not be considered sports either.

yeah I fell on my a** when I first tried it.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

H21ST,

I think I speak on behalf of the masses who are eager to get into curling by asking for the location of the rink these girls do their stuff at. :pfft:.

Hail.

[Hitman21ST]

H21ST,

I think I speak on behalf of the masses who are eager to get into curling by asking for the location of the rink these girls do their stuff at. :pfft:.

Hail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Arce

It's a conglomeration of curling's finest.

[SKOALSKIN]

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2010/jun/22/clayton-bank-sues-former-vol-albert-haynesworth/

Looks like Al can't afford to pay back the money. This dude is broke as a joke.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Arce

It's a conglomeration of curling's finest.

Now see that lady's work could really turn a fella onto "art." .

Hail.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2010/jun/22/clayton-bank-sues-former-vol-albert-haynesworth/

Looks like Al can't afford to pay back the money. This dude is broke as a joke.

A $100 million contract, $21 million in bonuses just recently picked up; and he's let a paltry, (in his World), $2.38 million loan go unpaid and end up in court.

The arrogance of the fat man thinking he's above everything is astounding.

Hail.

[Skins24]

Wow, guess he was being serious...

For the record I'm not an AH fan but I am a sympathizer to him.

I think you and Ryan are just contrarians as there is no logical reason why any sane person would be the slightest sympathetic for him. There's nothing wrong with that, some people are just wired that way.

The next thing that happened with AH was he announced in Feb he wasn't attending the new volentary camps. We come to learn last week that in Feb, around the time that ShannyAllen just came on board that they spoke with AH for 15 minutes, then spoke with AH's agent and gave him an ultimatium. Stay and do as your told, go and lose your guarentee.

And you go this from where?

First sign of a contrarian. They start skewing things to fit their perspectives.

The only thing we know about any meeting is that Shanahan explained what we're trying to do here. Instead of helping the team out, Fat **** thinks his stats will do down and wants no part of what we're building.

wp:

At one point, the Redskins and Haynesworth were at such odds over their plans for him that both parties discussed the possibility of walking away from the remainder of the contract before the bonus payment was due.

Doesn't quite sound like an ultimatum to me.

more details (which you seem to lack) here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mike-shanahan/shanahan-redskins-were-willing.html

I have several problems with this. In no paticular order they are:

1. Why not talk to AH the man himself instead of talking to agent? I don't care who you are, every man wants respected and talking to an agent and not the player is disrespect. Disrespecting anyone is the fast track to a breakup.

They did talk to him. Where are you getting that they talked to his agent?

They talked to him. Explained what we're doing. And he decided he didn't want to be a part of this.

Do you have some other info? Please share if you do.

No way do I think that AH was confused about the Skins intentions, the team tried to breakup with him but didn't want to cover the end of the bargain they owed him. They wanted him to be sympathetic to the team, how could anyone expect that to happen unless he was one selfless man in love with the game with no desire for financial stability. Sorry but if you put most of us in that situation, disrespect us and then ask for a favor the answer is hell no almost always.

This makes no sense at all....

LOL @ financial stability. He stole a ton of money from us last year. This year, with this bonus, him stealing even more would signal he's willing to do what it takes to be a part of this team. He's taking our money, not his money. We are paying him to play. He takes the money then decides he doesn't want to play. Name one company that would let you take a paycheck and not come in for work.

The team didn't try to break this up, HE wanted out, fearing his precious stats.

2. What right did the Redskins have to actually have that conversation with his agent? The Redskins were stuck paying him that 21 million if he were on the team or off it April 1st.

Again with the agent thing. Link??

We were on the hook to pay him and it wasn't optional. We had to pay him that money. Make no mistake about that, we had to pay him that money. Why do so many of you think we had any option there at that time when we didn't?

Pretty sure if we traded him to another team, his contract would have went with him. He was given permission to seek a team willing to pay that $21 mil.

name on thing AH did at that point to not get his money?

Umm...how about telling the team he didn't want to play for us.

You don't play, we don't pay.

3. What exactly was the intention of the Redskins to ask that of him in Feb? They speak of acting honorable, how is it honorable to intentionally damage a relationship with someone just because you don't want to honor your end of the bargain? The honorable thing wasn't done by either side

Again with the skewing. They didn't ask him anything.

They gave him permission to seek a trade because that's what he wanted. IF he wanted to be just released outright, then he would have until April 1st to decide to do that.

I'm excusing him for being human.

A greedy lazy one.

If I were privately told you weren't needed by my company I would also feel betrayed and bitter. That's how I see Hanyesworth.

And you'd be alone in seeing that because that's NOT how all this happened.

I believe he looked at this June camp situation and said he'd rather pay 10,000 then to deal with a company that treated him like royality then crapped down his back. I sympathize with him for not showing up but don't like it.

:ols:

Wow man.

Like most everything written about AH over the past week is about what he did in June, yet the same people saying the negative posts were saying crap about him last month, the month before that, and further past.

Look what's he's done. He has been nothing but a huge distraction. From his fake injuries to his complaints about the coaches to his off the field problems. We were warned about all this from Titans fans. I choose to ignore it because he's a Redskin now. Unfortunately....they were right.

The truth is AH isn't right to skip mini camp, but he certainily has me understanding why he did.

That's because you have your info all wrong.

We're trying to build a team here. He's all about his stats. He has the nerve to saying he's all about team when absolutely NOTHING he's ever done has been team oriented.

Anyway, you'd be against Snyder and the front office regardless of what really happened...screw the facts right?

[SKOALSKIN]

A $100 million contract, $21 million in bonuses just recently picked up; and he's let a paltry, (in his World), $2.38 million loan go unpaid and end up in court.

The arrogance of the fat man thinking he's above everything is astounding.

Hail.

Al has expensive taste. That 21million turns to 13-14 after taxes and agency fees. Factor in child support. Buy a couple boats and pay your mortgage. Not to mention settlements for your reckless driving and paternity suits. Fat Al will be broke.

[Cambl2Moss]

"want me to murder a person coach? Sure I'll do that"

[Hitman21ST]

"want me to murder a person coach? Sure I'll do that"

Off the field issues aside, the man knows his football. You can't say that because his off field persona is less than desired his player presence takes a hit.

[Ryman of the North]

Wow, guess he was being serious...

I think you and Ryan are just contrarians as there is no logical reason why any sane person would be the slightest sympathetic for him. There's nothing wrong with that, some people are just wired that way.

And you go this from where?

First sign of a contrarian. They start skewing things to fit their perspectives.

The only thing we know about any meeting is that Shanahan explained what we're trying to do here. Instead of helping the team out, Fat **** thinks his stats will do down and wants no part of what we're building.

Doesn't quite sound like an ultimatum to me.

more details (which you seem to lack) here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mike-shanahan/shanahan-redskins-were-willing.html

They did talk to him. Where are you getting that they talked to his agent?

They talked to him. Explained what we're doing. And he decided he didn't want to be a part of this.

Do you have some other info? Please share if you do.

This makes no sense at all....

LOL @ financial stability. He stole a ton of money from us last year. This year, with this bonus, him stealing even more would signal he's willing to do what it takes to be a part of this team. He's taking our money, not his money. We are paying him to play. He takes the money then decides he doesn't want to play. Name one company that would let you take a paycheck and not come in for work.

The team didn't try to break this up, HE wanted out, fearing his precious stats.

Again with the agent thing. Link??

Pretty sure if we traded him to another team, his contract would have went with him. He was given permission to seek a team willing to pay that $21 mil.

Umm...how about telling the team he didn't want to play for us.

You don't play, we don't pay.

Again with the skewing. They didn't ask him anything.

They gave him permission to seek a trade because that's what he wanted. IF he wanted to be just released outright, then he would have until April 1st to decide to do that.

A greedy lazy one.

And you'd be alone in seeing that because that's NOT how all this happened.

:ols:

Wow man.

Look what's he's done. He has been nothing but a huge distraction. From his fake injuries to his complaints about the coaches to his off the field problems. We were warned about all this from Titans fans. I choose to ignore it because he's a Redskin now. Unfortunately....they were right.

That's because you have your info all wrong.

We're trying to build a team here. He's all about his stats. He has the nerve to saying he's all about team when absolutely NOTHING he's ever done has been team oriented.

Anyway, you'd be against Snyder and the front office regardless of what really happened...screw the facts right?

No logical reason? except that some of us take our word very seriously and think that if someone breaks their word to us then perhaps we should stop keeping our word to them? never mind the fact that the TEAM not only went against their word first but actually tried to give Albert an unltimatum.

actually the first sign of trouble was when Shannahan openly stated we would be running a 3-4 in the first interview there was no mention of a "hybrid" and he stated that we had a perfect NT already here. You havent been following this very close I think.

The Ultimatum was the team saying " dont cash in your roster bonus of 21 million and we will cut or trade you" any sane person who plays a game where you can lose your career in a minute would have laughed at that. perhaps you dont understand but that BONUS had already been earned by him simply playing.

Your post is filled with the typical fallcies but at least you stayed away from stupidity for the most part with one notable exception, the comment that Albert stole money from us last year was classic idiocy, Albert AS VERIFIED WITH STATS PLAYED VERY WELL LAST SEASON AND PLAYED MORE THAN ALL BUT A VERY VERY FEW dLINEMEN. So right there you lost any crediibity despite a not too badly written post.

btw neithe of us is saying Albert is handling this well or that he is entirely in the right, as a matter of fact we both have said Albert has done this poorly, what we are saying is that frankly this team has handled this very poorly.

[flexxskins]

"want me to murder a person coach? Sure I'll do that"

Why do people do this?:doh:

Great, now we all know your position on whether or not Lewis had a hand in killing someone. The amazing thing is that's not the thread subject, no one asked and most here ****ing cares.

The bottomline is that Ray Lewis is talking about what he was asked about at the time. He's speaking on a profession that he knows a great deal about and happens to be very good at.

The half assed jokes are tired.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

@addicted

Are you serious? He's being payed $21 million dollars of a contract worth $100 million dollars. I work every year for what is relatively a pittance of a pittance compared to that. I don't complain to my boss when he tells me that we are going to change something up, I don't mouth off and not come the company retreat and expect everything to be all hunky dory. Maybe its a difference of perspective.

It's also a difference of value. He apparently has a lot of value. You apparently do not.

It's really a shame what has happened to the American worker over the past 25 years. We've all accepted our life as drones too easily.

"My life sucks. My boss can piss in the mouth, and I would say that I like lemonade. Please don't fire me." Show some balls!

If Warren Zevon were alive, he might write a song about Albert Haynesworth. And it would probably rock.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Why do people do this?:doh:

Great, now we all know your position on whether or not Lewis had a hand in killing someone. The amazing thing is that's not the thread subject, no one asked and most here ****ing cares.

The bottomline is that Ray Lewis is talking about what he was asked about at the time. He's speaking on a profession that he knows a great deal about and happens to be very good at.

The half assed jokes are tired.

He did kill someone. It's kind of hard to overlook that.

But aside from his role in a murder, he seems to be a man of great character.

[SKOALSKIN]

How long are these "promises" good for. The Redskins gave Albert every chance to succeded in his defense last year. However he showed up out of shape, he missed games, and acted like an *******.

His way didn't work. Everything that was promised to him was given to him. If it's anyones fault it's his agents. The NFL is a year to year league. When **** goes wrong, coaches and coordinators get fired. His agent should have hammered that home, before signing on the dotted line. Bottom line he didn't live up to his end of the agreement last year and he's not living up to it this year.

Albert is one more pay check away from retiring completely. He is an un motivated player. But I'm going to enjoy watching him play the nose this season.

[Hitman21ST]

But aside from his role in a murder' date=' he seems to be a man of great character.[/quote']

This isn't about his character. This is about whether or not he would do what his coaches wanted and play where he's paid to play. We all know his character isn't of the highest quality, but he gets the job done in football and does it at a HoF level.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This isn't about his character. This is about whether or not he would do what his coaches wanted and play where he's paid to play. We all know his character isn't of the highest quality, but he gets the job done in football and does it at a HoF level.

Except for all those games he missed because he murdered someone.

[Hitman21ST]

Except for all those games he missed because he murdered someone.

All those missed games and he's still HoF worthy.

[Skins24]

No logical reason? except that some of us take our word very seriously and think that if someone breaks their word to us then perhaps we should stop keeping our word to them?

Do tell. What word was given and how have the Redskins broken that word.

Please enlighten us.

never mind the fact that the TEAM not only went against their word first but actually tried to give Albert an unltimatum.

Link?

actually the first sign of trouble was when Shannahan openly stated we would be running a 3-4 in the first interview there was no mention of a "hybrid" and he stated that we had a perfect NT already here. You havent been following this very close I think.

You're kidding right? They were mum for the longest time about a 3-4 switch.

Couple articles from Jan:

http://www.examiner.com/x-450-Washington-Redskins-Examiner~y2010m1d14-Shanahan-hires-two-more-assistants-Haynesworth-doesnt-like-in-34-defense?cid=exrss-Washington-Redskins-Examiner

The addition of Spanos indicates that Shanahan and Haslett are seriously considering shifting to a 3-4 defensive scheme. Jason LaCanfora at NFL Network is reporting that defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth will not be happy about any switch and the run/gap responsibilities assigned to the nosetackle in the 3-4. Haynesworth criticized previous defensive coordinator Greg Blache for not allowing him to freelance and create havoc behind the line.

couple weeks later, still no official word

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Fan_Mailbag__Will_the_Defense_Switch_To_a_3_4__102053.jsp

Question: Will the Redskins run a 3-4 or 4-3 defense next season? Will a 3-4 mesh with the current defensive roster?

-- Sammy M.

Gary: It seems everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are switching to a 3-4 this offseason, but for now defensive coordinator Jim Haslett has only said (in an interview with The Washington Post) that the defense could have success running either a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment. Haslett and the coaches are still evaluating the current defensive roster, potential free agents and the 2010 rookie crop, so it’s too soon to say what direction they will go. If they opt for the 3-4--and that’s still a big if at this point--then Haslett has some pieces that could fit, particularly Brian Orakpo who could play outside linebacker. Albert Haynesworth would have to transition to defensive end and Andre Carter would have to drop back to outside linebacker, something he has done before. London Fletcher would have to share space in the middle. And new linebackers coach Lou Spanos helped guide the Pittsburgh Steelers’ linebackers in their 3-4 defense the last 15 years. Switching to 3-4 would be a significant change in defensive mindset for the team. To the best of my knowledge, the Redskins have never run a 3-4 as their base defense.

How about, a couple MONTHS later.

From March

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/3-4-defense/mike-shanahan-elaborates-on-wh.html

The whispers that Mike Shanahan was entertaining a change to the 3-4 defense were in circulation well before he even was hired as Redskins' head coach. But in his nearly three months on the job, he's been reluctant to confirm the pending change. And apparently he has a good reason.

Even as players are preparing to change to a 3-4 base, Shanahan said the Redskins have not ruled out the possibility of playing with a 4-3 base next season.

During the NFL's annual owner meetings in Orlando this week, I asked Shanahan why he's been coy on the topic of the 3-4 defense.

"I just don't want people to start preparing for it right away," he said with a laugh.

But there's a real reason, and he explained that, too.

"Until you actually know what your personnel is, I think it's a little premature," he said. "We have--everybody on our staff has run the 3-4 and the 4-3. You may get to the middle of your second minicamp and say, 'Hey, we might be running a little bit more of a four-man front than a three-man front.' To say you're going to do something that early is to be a little premature. So what I've said is, we're going to run the Redskins Defense, which could be a combination of both. Until you look at the personnel, I just hate to say blanketly, 'This is what we're going to do.'"

Shanahan was also asked how exactly Albert Haynesworth might fit in the Redskins' version of a 3-4, and in side-stepping the question, he noted the intricacies and varieties the 3-4 offers.

"People say the 3-4 -- well, what kind of 3-4 are you using?" he said. "Are you using Pittsburgh's 3-4? Are you using Dallas' 3-4? San Diego? A lot of people don't even know the differences of the 3-4 defense. Are you using New England's 3-4? Are you using [Vince] Wilfork? Or are you using Pittsburgh's defense? What's the differences in the 3-4?

"There's big differences in the 3-4. But a lot of people don't even know what the differences are. And players don't even know," he continued. "So it's a little premature to say if a guy is going to play nose tackle [or] defensive end."

You my friend have not been following closely. Or you're just making (stuff) up

The Ultimatum was the team saying " dont cash in your roster bonus of 21 million and we will cut or trade you" any sane person who plays a game where you can lose your career in a minute would have laughed at that. perhaps you dont understand but that BONUS had already been earned by him simply playing.

:doh:

Him taking 21 million to play for us, would have indicated that....he would play for us. We gave him an opportunity to do as HE wanted and leave before we paid him to play for us.

Your post is filled with the typical fallcies but at least you stayed away from stupidity for the most part with one notable exception, the comment that Albert stole money from us last year was classic idiocy, Albert AS VERIFIED WITH STATS PLAYED VERY WELL LAST SEASON AND PLAYED MORE THAN ALL BUT A VERY VERY FEW dLINEMEN. So right there you lost any crediibity despite a not too badly written post.

I didn't say it was totally his fault. Yeah he played well for us, but for what we were paying him, he should have played great for us. Our fault though for paying him that much. We left the door to the vault open....

what we are saying is that frankly this team has handled this very poorly.

And neither of you have really explained how - with facts, not stuff you all made up.