Better Enjoy the World Cup and Soccer by understanding the Rules (ask questions here)

[Vilandil Tasardur]

To be clearer, it happened when the two guys slammed into each other at midfield, and then Dempsey kicked the ball out of bounds. Both were on the ground, and I just found the timing weird. Usually the guys who kick the ball out of bounds will get it right back, but this time they got it back after the injured guy came back in, which took a little while.

I probably wasn't paying close enough attention.

Yeah, I'm not too sure without seeing it. Did play resume while the guy was out of play, and then when he returned the Slovenians handed the ball over?

Is it possible that the Slovenians went to throw it in, thinking that the play had been out on the US, and the ref said otherwise?

[Elessar78]

The dumb thing, I thought, that the US did was kick it out in our own half! Probably ten yards into our half.

[Major Harris]

Okay, I see what you guys are saying:

But it looks like we've got a great keeper and when we switched to that formation, we started kicking ass and we almost won. Should we stick with it or does it only work for certain teams?

it depends on who you're playing against. you rarely see teams open up with only 3 in the back, though.

[ACW]

Okay, for the pitch setup:

I get the half-court line (though what's with the half-circles on each side?), but what are the things in the corners; what's the half-oval, the bigger box, and the smaller box in the goalkeeper area?

Thanks.

EDIT: Oh, and is ANY physical contact allowed?

[Vilandil Tasardur]

When play begins, like at the beginning of each half and after a goal, the team with possession gets the ball at the half way line. The circle around the half way line is a zone that the opposing team cannot penetrate until the ball is passed and officially put into play. It's just a free space for the team with the ball to pass the ball uncontested while the ball is put into play.

The bigger box is the goalie's box, and represents the area of the pitch during which the goalie can use his hands. If he is outside the box, he becomes like any normal defender. It is also the area during which a foul results in a penalty kick.

The smallest box is used for goal kicks. If the ball goes out on the attackers, possession goes to the goalie's team. He will put the ball back into play by essentially having a free kick; the only stipulation being that he can take this free kick from anywhere in the smaller box.

The things in the corners are mini zones used for corner kicks. As with the goalie box, when a player is taking a corner, he can place the ball anywhere in that mini zone that he would like and take the corner kick from there. It's because different footed players would try to move the ball further from the corner, so they just make a specific zone for it.

The half circle at the top of the goalie box is an arc that is designed for when taking penalty kicks. If it is a normal PK, and not a PK shootout, then all of the other players line up behind the guy taking the penalty. If the goalie saves the PK but the ball is in play, then it is a free ball. Strikers can try to score on a rebound and defenders must try to clear the ball. Like a 2nd basketball free throw. The penalty arc ensures that, no matter where they stand behind the guy taking the PK, they are never closer than 10 yards to the shooter.

Edit: Physical contact depends on the referees. The type of game that I see called most often, and which I like the most, is a game that allows contact with the hands and elbows as long as nothing ever goes at the feet, no malice is present in the contact, AND the player is not removed from the ball.

As a defender, I can't push you off of your run, but we can certainly jostle with elbows and give little shoves. However, if I go to the ground or go at you with my feet, I had better contact the ball first. Most refs will allow any contact to the legs and flat out trips even, as long as your tackle hits the ball first. If you miss the ball and take out the legs, it's a penalty. Cards come into play when coming from behind, when a slide has malice, or when it's a repeat offender.

Still, contact between the upper bodies is usually okay as long as there isn't outright shoving, again depending on the refs. It's usually also important to note that defenders get away with a little more when in the penalty box because a ref is loath to award a penalty on a "ticky tacky" call. What may be a foul outside the box is more of good defense in the box.

Also, sometimes cards come into play when the opposing team is on a breakaway. Even if the foul is very tame and barely a foul at all, but I trip a guy with the ball in a one on one situation, it's going to be at least a yellow, and probably a red. That's how goalies get awarded the red cards. They come out to play defense, miss the ball, and end up taking out the attacker at his knees without ever contacting the ball. Not only do they foul the player in the box, but they undue his scoring chance. It'll probably result in a PK and a red card.

[Elessar78]

The half circle at the top of the box is there because all opponents must be at least ten yards from any free kick (a penalty is a free kick). If the half circle (arc) isn't there then players would be in violation of the laws of the game.

[ACW]

Thanks guys

So basically, what would be a questionable, ticky-tac foul in basketball is generally allowed in soccer?

[Hubbs]

Thanks guys

So basically, what would be a questionable, ticky-tac foul in basketball is generally allowed in soccer?

...unless it happens when we score.

[jnhay]

Yeah, I'm not too sure without seeing it. Did play resume while the guy was out of play, and then when he returned the Slovenians handed the ball over?

Is it possible that the Slovenians went to throw it in, thinking that the play had been out on the US, and the ref said otherwise?

Yeah, that's what it looked like to me (the first statement). The ball was clearly kicked out by the US.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Thanks guys

So basically, what would be a questionable, ticky-tac foul in basketball is generally allowed in soccer?

Lol, you'd hope at least. The Germany game yesterday was a perfect example of ticky tacky calls ruining a match.

In basketball, getting into foul trouble is bad, but you get 6 fouls. In soccer, it only takes two yellows, AND that also suspends you for the next match. And a yellow carries over to the next one, so that two yellows in any given stage of the tournament will result an a suspension from the next game. So a bad call in soccer really alters the game.

[Elessar78]

There was a recent modification in the laws of the game though. Now you can be given a yellow card for "persistent infringement". If you keep fouling, albeit not haymakers, the ref can caution (issue the yellow) the player. I think the standard is three fouls within a reasonable amount of time from each other. Like if you had one at the second, 44th, and 75th minute you probably wouldn't get cautioned. But have, say, six fouls then probably.

[heyholetsgogrant]

how do they measure possession percentages?

[McD5]

how do they measure possession percentages?

By the clock. Like time of possession.

[Veretax]

the one I've never quit been able to understand is offsides calls.

[Kilmer17]

the one I've never quit been able to understand is offsides calls.

A player must have two opposing players between him and the opponents goal before a ball is passed to him while he is on the opponents side of the pitch.

[Major Harris]

the one I've never quit been able to understand is offsides calls.

basically, when a ball is passed to you, you have to have 2 defenders between you and the goal. one of those is usually the goalkeeper. so you can't go deeper than the last defender until after the ball is kicked.

you can be in an offside position away from the play and not be called offside if you aren't affecting the play, and you can't be offside in your own half of the field.

offside turns into a game of cat and mouse.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

the one I've never quit been able to understand is offsides calls.

This one is waaay more simple that people make it out to be.

At the time I pass you the ball, there must be two opposing players between you and the goal. in 99.9% of cases, the goalie will be one of them. Thus, there must be another defender between you and the goal, which with the goalie makes up the two defenders.

Where it gets tricky is if the goalie has run off of his line. In the Mexico South Africa game, on a corner kick, there was a defender standing right on the goal line. Mexico sent in a corner, and the goalie ran forward to punch the ball. He missed, and a mexican player headed it to a teammate, who scored a goal. The play was offside because, despite the fact that ONE defender was standing between the receiver and the goal, the goalie had run forward and was no longer between the receptor and the ball, thus meaning that there was no second defender.

Number 11 cannot legally pass the ball to number 10 because, at the time of the pass, only one blue defender is between 10 and the goal, in this case it is the goalie, number 1.

In this case, number 7 CAN pass to number 10 because number 2 is slightly (ever so slightly) ahead of number 10. This means that number 2 and the goalie, number 1, are between number 10 and the goalie. Thus number 10 is onside, has a great shot at goal, and number 2 will probably be benched for playing so far back so far out on the wing.

The two key things are two remember that it takes two defenders. Most of the time one will be the goalie, but it doesn't have to be. Also, the rule only applies at the time the ball is kicked. So if your striker is faster, he can be onside but then beat the defender to a longer kicked ball.

[Kilmer17]

One of them doesnt have to be the keeper, it just typically happens that way for obvious reasons.

[Major Harris]

One of them doesnt have to be the keeper, it just typically happens that way for obvious reasons.

right, i'll edit.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Maybe one of you two can help me out on this one.

My dad swears up and down that since the hey days of soccer the rule has stated that if the pass contacts a defender that it no longer matters whether the player was offside or not.

In other words, he claims that if I pass you the ball, and you are offside, but the defender deflects my pass and you receiver it anyways that you can legally play the ball because the defender has contacted it. He says that the defender contacting it is similar to him "stealing it" momentarily and losing it once more, and thus you can be offside because the ball briefly changed possession.

I believe my dad on this one, but I've never seen it in a game situation because it's so rare. Is this true?

[Kilmer17]

Maybe one of you two can help me out on this one.

My dad swears up and down that since the hey days of soccer the rule has stated that if the pass contacts a defender that it no longer matters whether the player was offside or not.

In other words, he claims that if I pass you the ball, and you are offside, but the defender deflects my pass and you receiver it anyways that you can legally play the ball because the defender has contacted it. He says that the defender contacting it is similar to him "stealing it" momentarily and losing it once more, and thus you can be offside because the ball briefly changed possession.

I believe my dad on this one, but I've never seen it in a game situation because it's so rare. Is this true?

Yes.

Donovan scored the second goal (later changed to an own goal) vs Portugal in 02 on this exact situation. He was offside, but the ball deflected off a Portugal player so the linesman kept the flag down correctly.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Yes.

Donovan scored the second goal (later changed to an own goal) vs Portugal in 02 on this exact situation. He was offside, but the ball deflected off a Portugal player so the linesman kept the flag down correctly.

I was 12 during that game...I remember watching it but sure didn't remember that play:ols:.

Thanks for helping me out on that one. My dad always says it but I've never seen it in practice, and the FIFA XBox game isn't smart enough to recognize this rule so I was starting to doubt my dad:silly:

[Kosher Ham]

Cool thread, thanks for the reference point gentlemen.

[Kilmer17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzfC8FkuZcc

Donovans goal vs portugal.

[Elessar78]

Maybe one of you two can help me out on this one.

My dad swears up and down that since the hey days of soccer the rule has stated that if the pass contacts a defender that it no longer matters whether the player was offside or not.

In other words, he claims that if I pass you the ball, and you are offside, but the defender deflects my pass and you receiver it anyways that you can legally play the ball because the defender has contacted it. He says that the defender contacting it is similar to him "stealing it" momentarily and losing it once more, and thus you can be offside because the ball briefly changed possession.

I believe my dad on this one, but I've never seen it in a game situation because it's so rare. Is this true?

You ARE offside regardless of the contact by the defender. Because the way the law is written you are penalized for being offside as soon as the ball is played to the teammate in an offside position.

Note: you can be in an offside position but not in violation of the law as long as you are not interfering with play, an opponent, or gaining an advantage by being in that position.

I watched that Donovan goal that Kilmer provides and I think that's a missed call. Assistant referees are instructed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. It was a bang bang play, so I can see how that would be missed. Maybe there was a Portuguese player keeping him onside off of the camera frame?