Cnn.com - Green Bay Packers players questioned in alleged assaults of two women

[jkypoo]

Not to make light of a serious situation, but, logistically speaking, how does one man sexually assault two women simultaneously? Also, if six other innocent men were in the condo, wouldn't one if not all of them respond to or at least report cries for help? From an outside perspective, this story sounds like a streeetch. Still, hopefully justice is served one way or another.

[PokerPacker]

Also, if six other innocent men were in the condo, wouldn't one if not all of them respond to or at least report cries for help? From an outside perspective, this story sounds like a streeetch. Still, hopefully justice is served one way or another.

If I recall the reports correctly, the others arrived back there a bit later than Underwood.

On a somewhat related note, Matthews and Flynn are not happy about their names getting tacked onto this seeing as how they had no part in what happened.

[mojobo]

Based off the fact that they went home with him at 2 AM after meeting him in a bar it sounds like they may just be looking for a pay day. If the investigation finds reason to believe he did in fact rape them then they need to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law, but we've seen how destructive false accusations can be (Duke Lacrosse case comes to mind). The girls may have put themselves in a dangerous situation, but its not their responsibility to not be raped... its his responsibility not to rape them.

With that said the NFL needs to be removing him from all team functions until he is no longer a suspect in the investigation. The NFL should take the position that if a player who is accused of sexual assault claims that the act was consensual then the NFL will remove that player (either with or without pay) until the investigation is complete. I'm all for allowing innocent until proven guilty from the NFL if the player claims he had no involvement with his accuser, as not doing so would leave them vulnerable to false accusations, but at some point you have to hold them responsible for their reckless behavior that puts themselves in a compromising situation, and paints a bad image on the NFL.

[jkypoo]

If I recall the reports correctly, the others arrived back there a bit later than Underwood.

Ah, that makes sense. But that doesn't look good for the accusers. Assuming the six innocent men weren't there for the entirety of the alleged sexual assault, that sort of blows up their initial claim that all seven assaulted them. And somewhat, if not entirely, destroys their credibility.

On a somewhat related note, Matthews and Flynn are not happy about their names getting tacked onto this seeing as how they had no part in what happened.

I wouldn't be happy either. This affects not just them directly (e.g. professional and personal image, embarrassment, etc.), but impacts those closest to them (e.g. trust issues and embarrassment). Of course, all of those things are trumped by what the accusers experienced and are experiencing, if, that is, their claims are found accurate.

[PokerPacker]

Based off the fact that they went home with him at 2 AM after meeting him in a bar it sounds like they may just be looking for a pay day. If the investigation finds reason to believe he did in fact rape them then they need to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law, but we've seen how destructive false accusations can be (Duke Lacrosse case comes to mind). The girls may have put themselves in a dangerous situation, but its not their responsibility to not be raped... its his responsibility not to rape them.

With that said the NFL needs to be removing him from all team functions until he is no longer a suspect in the investigation. The NFL should take the position that if a player who is accused of sexual assault claims that the act was consensual then the NFL will remove that player (either with or without pay) until the investigation is complete. I'm all for allowing innocent until proven guilty from the NFL if the player claims he had no involvement with his accuser, as not doing so would leave them vulnerable to false accusations, but at some point you have to hold them responsible for their reckless behavior that puts themselves in a compromising situation, and paints a bad image on the NFL.

I agree with pretty much everything in this post.

[NewCliche21]

I am not saying that anyone did anything. I don't know squat about the case any more than any of you do. However, what I *AM* saying is:

1) I doubt that anyone named in this article would be getting any defense from posters if those named didn't happen to play in the NFL.

2) The reference to women as "gold diggers" or "acting like sluts" is atrocious. I can't wait for some of you to be fathers and have your daughter referred to as one of those.

3) The automatic blaming of the women given no knowledge of what transpired is equally disgusting.

4) The facts, not my opinions, but the FACTS of sexual assault and rape, including their preponderance, report rates, false report rates, and other information in general need to be learned by many on this board.

One in four, people. Your family probably includes a mother, grandmother, aunt, sister, cousin, niece, daughter, or wife. I'm wondering which YOU are calling a liar, slut, or gold digger. Let me know.

[darklight1216]

Did the players (and former players) declare war on the NFL's image?

I am not saying that anyone did anything. I don't know squat about the case any more than any of you do. However, what I *AM* saying is:

Then why do you say things like this?

He should be in JAIL, not in the NFL.

One in four, people. Your family probably includes a mother, grandmother, aunt, sister, cousin, niece, daughter, or wife. I'm wondering which YOU are calling a liar, slut, or gold digger. Let me know.

Many people also have a father, grandfather, brothers, an uncle, male cousins, etc. Which one are you implying is a rapist?

[SonnyJ]

I am not saying that anyone did anything. I don't know squat about the case any more than any of you do. However, what I *AM* saying is:

1) I doubt that anyone named in this article would be getting any defense from posters if those named didn't happen to play in the NFL.

I'm not sure which is worse in this statement - the condescending attitude or the ridiculous lack of awareness of context. On the one hand, you have the implication inherent in this statement that anyone who doesn't immediately condemn the alleged assailant is a mindless jock worshipper. On the other, well, you're in the Around the NFL section of an NFL team's messageboard - we wouldn't even be here discussing this if there weren't an NFL slant on this situation.

2) The reference to women as "gold diggers" or "acting like sluts" is atrocious. I can't wait for some of you to be fathers and have your daughter referred to as one of those.

But it does happen. That's the problem. If every claim of sexual assault was unquestionable, there wouldn't be any debate. But, the fact is, there's a lot of gray area. And, when rich and famous people are involved, it brings up the issue of money, which is a prime motive to call into question.

Women aren't as helpless as you seem to think they are. They are capable of conniving behavior, too. Why should only us guys be crooks ?

3) The automatic blaming of the women given no knowledge of what transpired is equally disgusting.

As is your knee-jerk response that the accused are automatically guilty. It seems to be self-evident to you.

My sister was sexually assaulted. She would tell you that her attacker got what he deserved. And, in the next sentence, she would tell you that she was stupid for putting herself in that situation. Again, women aren't helpless - they are capable of taking common sense measures to ensure their safety. Of course, just putting themselves in a risky situation does not mean that they deserve to be raped - I don't think anyone is suggesting that. But, avoiding those obviously risky situations would be prudent, don't you think?

Put another way, getting in the car as a passenger with an obviously drunk person driving is pretty stupid, wouldn't you say? It's a risky move that, while the person that does so doesn't deserve to be injured (or killed) when that drunk driver wraps the car around a telephone pole, there is a certain level of culpability that person has to assume for putting himself in that situation.

4) The facts, not my opinions, but the FACTS of sexual assault and rape, including their preponderance, report rates, false report rates, and other information in general need to be learned by many on this board.

One in four, people. Your family probably includes a mother, grandmother, aunt, sister, cousin, niece, daughter, or wife. I'm wondering which YOU are calling a liar, slut, or gold digger. Let me know.

Basically, you are completely incapable of rendering a sound, rational, and impartial verdict on this. It's clear that you are WAY too close to victims to display any sort of objectivity. And, really, good for you for helping those who have suffered unspeakable trauma, as there are countless instances of women who have been ruthlessly violated by men and they need (and deserve) all the support they can get from compassionate people such as yourself.

That said, it's awfully nervy of you to lecture people who have posted some pretty tame stuff. You've taken their posts and turned them into crimes against the female race. As stated, there are women out there who do take advantage of these situations. To believe there not to be is to live in a fantasy world. In the context of the world of athletes (which this board is), it is a legitimate point to be made.

[NewCliche21]

Recusing myself for not being able to have a rational debate about this on this site.

And no, that's not an attack on any given poster; it's more due to self-awareness and not wanting to hurt the cause by being too harsh with my statements. It's difficult to separate the type of heated debate of stupid things, such as Haynesworth and Campbell, and things that actually matter, such as this.

[Xameil]

2) The reference to women as "gold diggers" or "acting like sluts" is atrocious. I can't wait for some of you to be fathers and have your daughter referred to as one of those.

Actually...I would hope I would have raised my daughter correctly to not be in that situation.

Also, I have seen a father call one of his daughters a slut, because they were, and deserved to be called one. The guy I am refering to is a great father to his daughters btw...but he will not turn a blind eye to something because he doesn't like it.

[Mad Hatter]

If this plays out like Big Ben's situation did, this guy might not be lucky enough to get a 6 game suspension. He might just get outright released instead. I believe someone already mentioned this earlier in the thread, but these guys need to be more careful about what they do and who they meet. They're in the NFL, it's different than if he were, say, an accountant. At the same time, agreeing to go to a guy's condo at 2 AM after you met him in a bar? He isn't exactly inviting them over so they can watch TV and play video games. Women have to be careful about what they do and who they meet also, and I'm saying this as a woman. They need to look out for themselves because if they don't, no one else is going to do it for them.

[PokerPacker]

Police: Women in Packers case changed statements

(AP) – 3 hours ago

LAKE DELTON, Wis. — A Wisconsin police chief says two women who accused a Green Bay Packers player of sexually assaulting them changed their statements during the investigation.

Lake Delton Police Chief Tom Dorner says the women first said they were sexually assaulted by more than one person while others held them down. He says they later said only one person was involved and that they were not held down by others.

Dorner says there were no weapons involved in the alleged incident.

Police were called to a Lake Delton condo early Saturday where seven Packers players were staying. The women said they had been sexually assaulted. Police cleared six of the seven players, but one remains under investigation.

Dorner declined to name that player or his accusers.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iDDzpyJWgTWRYgQ7SMUkMif2mCUgD9G6L1I84

Highly doubting these women's story now.

[darklight1216]

Highly doubting these women's story now.

I have to agree.

[darklight1216]

Everyone who doubted the rape allegation just might be right.

The latest report comes from Bill Michaels WTMJ in Milwaukee.

According to Michaels, Underwood met the two women who would later claim sexual assault at a "Gentleman's Club" named Chubby's. He allegedly solicited one or both to return to the condo where he and other members of the team were staying.

And so while an "encounter" between Underwood and one of the women was taking place, the other woman tried to rob him.

When the theft was discovered, the women were thrown out -- and then they cried rape.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/08/report-brandon-underwood-could-be-charged-with-solitication-of-prostitution/

Underwood might be charged with solicitation of a prostitute.

[PokerPacker]

Everyone who doubted the rape allegation just might be right.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/08/report-brandon-underwood-could-be-charged-with-solitication-of-prostitution/

Underwood might be charged with solicitation of a prostitute.

Now THAT is a story I can believe. Wouldn't be surprised to see him get a little suspension for soliciting prostitution if that is indeed how it went down.

[ibarramedia]

the 6 who are not under suspicion:

OLB Clay Matthews

QB Matt Flynn

OG Josh Sitton

FB Korey Hall

OLB Brad Jones

S Khalil Jones

Not sure what to think of this. I always liked that the Packers tended to be high-character players, but with Jolly and his drugs (and headbutting), Havner and his DUI, and now this, well... I dunno.

With commissioner Roger Goodell running a very tight ship considering discipline and off the field incidents, the questioned players might be a little nervous even if they are not under suspicion. The standard has been set so high now that you cannot have any kind of negative news about you at all.

[PokerPacker]

With commissioner Roger Goodell running a very tight ship considering discipline and off the field incidents, the questioned players might be a little nervous even if they are not under suspicion. The standard has been set so high now that you cannot have any kind of negative news about you at all.

And they seem quite upset that the police released their names to the media considering they did nothing wrong.

I'm a man of high character and high values and I don't stand for any (expletive) like that. Just to have my name tainted is disappointing. I'm the most disappointed that our names even got out because there are no allegations against us.

It is unfortunate that my name is involved with all that. We went down there for a golf tournament. I don't think we can talk about the legal stuff, but it's just unfortunate.

I was just there for a golf tournament. I had nothing to do with anything that supposedly happened. Obviously NFL players are targets, but I don't know what happened, honestly. I wasn't involved. I don't like that my name is even attached to something like that.

You never want to be portrayed poorly. Unfortunately, that one individual has to deal with it and we'll see what happens.

I'm sure they'll all be fine, though I would not be surprised in the slightest to see Underwood get a suspension. It may be just what he needs, anyways, to give him the kick in the rear to tell him he needs to mature.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I stopped reading after "Wisconsin resort."

I want to go to a Wisconsin resort. Do they have cheese baths? I've always wanted a cheese bath.