WP: Santana Moss received HGH from accused Canadian doctor, sources say

[jnhay]

I don't know where you are from, but I was taught as early as I can remember, that cheating is wrong. Period.

Using HGH is cheating. If Moss is guilty, he needs to be cut.

If it helped his knees get better, I don't think it's wrong. If he used it to just run faster or be strong, I'd consider that wrong. From all his interviews, he seems like a nice guy, so I hope he's not doing the latter.

[Ashburn Dave]

"I ain't got nothing to do with nothing that ain't about me."

:doh:

Really Santana? Didn't you go to college? Anyway, here's to hoping this is not an issue.

He didn't go to college. He went to the U.

[Long-Time-Fan]

If he wasn't guilty he would have been very adamant to say that he didn't do HGH.

But by going with.........."I ain't got nothing to do with nothing that ain't about me."

Tells me all I need to know.

[pvkeeper19]

I don't know anymore than you do, but even if it was true I don't think it reflects negatively on Moss. If you'll recall he is coming back from an injury and surgery. While it's not technically legal for him to use HGH, I don't personally see anything morally or ethically wrong with using HGH to recover from an injury and get back to normal. It's not like he was turning himself into David Boston.

If the accusations are true, it absolutely reflects poorly on Moss. That would mean he has violated both US law and NFL rules. I see something ethically and morally wrong with intentionally violating rules set down by the federal government and by your employer.

Why a player cheats and violates laws isn't important. What matters is what happened, and if what happened was that Moss used HGH, he needs to be punished--and, in my opinion, removed from the team.

[Mooka]

Again, can the league actually punish Santana without a positive test?

There would have to be proof he used HGH and that seems unlikely.

Not sure what will come of this if anything other then some really bad press.

[WARPATH85]

You're out your Mother Truckin Mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NewCliche21]

The double-standards are insane on this board.

Going to the doctor was a really, really, REALLY stupid decision, and Moss is one of my favorite players. He should be suspended because of that dumbass choice, putting himself/the team/the league in this position, and maybe even using.

What a ****ing idiot. You just don't do stupid **** like that.

[NewCliche21]

I'd be willing to be that's an incredibly small percentage. The problem for Moss, Cushing, Merriman, etc. is that they got caught

No, the problem is that they used (supposedly).

A man is responsible for his own actions. Cheating because everyone else is doing it is still cheating.

[Horton_Predator48]

If he's guilty then he'll pay the price and move on. If not then move on.

[WARPATH85]

I don't know where you are from, but I was taught as early as I can remember, that cheating is wrong. Period.

Using HGH is cheating. If Moss is guilty, he needs to be cut.

You're out your Mother Truckin Mind!!!!

[pvkeeper19]

If it helped his knees get better, I don't think it's wrong.

Players who use it to "heal faster" are still in the wrong, because they are using an illegal substance to gain an unfair advantage over other players who operate within the rules. Those law-abiding players are essentially punished for following the rules.

[mcpingist]

It doesn't need to be "proven". This looks bad for the NFL. Real bad. And if you tarnish the "shield", as they say, justice is served on you swiftly. His simple involvement with this doctor and the fact that the doc was arrested is enough grounds for a 4 game suspension.

I fully expect Goodell to drop the hammer on Moss quickly in this case.

Nonsense. I'm not saying the NFL wouldn't try it, although I seriously doubt it. If they did suspend him with no more evidence than you cite, it would never stand up in court.

[pvkeeper19]

Again, can the league actually punish Santana without a positive test?

There would have to be proof he used HGH and that seems unlikely.

Not sure what will come of this if anything other then some really bad press.

An admission of guilt is sufficient for a suspension. That precedent was set with Rodney Harrison in 2007.

[WARPATH85]

If the accusations are true, it absolutely reflects poorly on Moss. That would mean he has violated both US law and NFL rules. I see something ethically and morally wrong with intentionally violating rules set down by the federal government and by your employer.

Why a player cheats and violates laws isn't important. What matters is what happened, and if what happened was that Moss used HGH, he needs to be punished--and, in my opinion, removed from the team.

Being in the military, I tell my soldiers not to do drugs. With that being said, have you done everything 100% PERFECT in your life? Have you lived the straight and narrow each and everyday? Have you ever taken stationary, pens, pencils, staples, staplers, or anything from your work place, that now sits in your home?

Don't be so quick to pass judgement on others!..So you never told a lie to family, friends, or your Superiors?

[Mooka]

An admission of guilt is sufficient for a suspension. That precedent was set with Rodney Harrison in 2007.

Thanks. Good info.

So if police have something on Santana then he'll be in the same exact situation as Harrison and have to admit his guilt.

[honejc]

He didn't go to college. He went to the U.

correction -- he went to convict U

[skinsfan1523]

hmmm... a professional football player taking something that might help him make more money. What a surprise.....

[TotalRecall]

That's a bad sign. When he doesn't want to talk about it, that usually means he is hiding something and doesn't want to say something that he has to take back. For starters, there's obviously an association with the HGH doctor or he would have denied ever knowing him.

[WARPATH85]

Or I can just expect that players who are caught cheating be punished to the fullest extent to which teams and the league are able.

I don't see what's wrong with wanting players who cheat out of the league. Do you not see a problem with a player using illegal substances to gain an advantage over other players who compete fairly and within the rules laid down and agreed to as a condition of employment in the NFL? If someone you work with lied and cheated to get ahead at your expense, wouldn't you be upset?

What advantage did Moss have in Zorn's system?

[ExoDus84]

So many more players use HGH than what we know about. It's extremely common. If he tests positive, he should be suspended a few games. But all the holier-than-thou members pleading for his release need to get a grip.

[WorshiptheMonk81]

I think much more info/evidence is needed for anything to come of it, but Goodell is a disciplinary madman. My guess is a lot of talk but no action on Moss. Moss has been gimpy the last few years, but when he’s on , he’s pretty solid. I’m not sold on him playing 16 games with or without PED's. I’m waiting for the 08' kids to come through, and I’m a believer in that.

[The Diesel]

Players who use it to "heal faster" are still in the wrong, because they are using an illegal substance to gain an unfair advantage over other players who operate within the rules. Those law-abiding players are essentially punished for following the rules.

Exactly. There are players trying to take his job. If he's using something artificial and illegal (banned) to get him back on the field faster then he is cheating everyone trying to get up to his spot on the ladder. It's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong.

But it's different when it's your player. Now everybody wants to make excuses. Ivan Carter, for instance, was embarrassingly ignorant of the above logic on WPL today. I don't even want to read the rationalization I know are being thrown out in this thread.

It's cheating. It's gaining an advantage that you are not supposed to have. It's wrong. Period. Santana Moss is a cheater.

[pvkeeper19]

Being in the military, I tell my soldiers not to do drugs. With that being said, have you done everything 100% PERFECT in your life? Have you lived the straight and narrow each and everyday? Have you ever taken stationary, pens, pencils, staples, staplers, or anything from your work place, that now sits in your home?

Don't be so quick to pass judgement on others!..So you never told a lie to family, friends, or your Superiors?

What do you do in the military when someone breaks a rule? Let him slide, because "nobody's perfect?"

HGH use is explicitly prohibited by the NFL, and the punishment for violating that rule is established: 4-game suspension. Additionally, it's a violation of federal law.

If this was a Cowboy we were talking about, everybody would be throwing the book at him.

[TotalRecall]

Nonsense. I'm not saying the NFL wouldn't try it, although I seriously doubt it. If they did suspend him with no more evidence than you cite, it would never stand up in court.

It doesn't have to stand-up in court. Roger Goodell has the final say. Appeals usually never work. All a player has to do is put the NFL in a bad light for a punishment to come down.

[SittingBull]

I don't see how Moss is violating any US law. The doctor might have by transporting it across borders. It is against NFL rules though and even if it was just to help rehab an injury it still gives him an unfair advantage if it allows him to heal from a specific injury faster than someone else with the same injury that's not using HGH.