NFP: Williams over Okung a 'big mistake'

[PleaseGoForTheWin]

I keep hearing this point stressed by fans and the media, but ultimately I am going to value the coaches' opinions more.

[skinsfan4128]

I stopped reading after I read that. So we made a pick that was a better fit for our team, yet we made a "big mistake"? Sure thing, slugger.

And just when you thought the media were starting to give the Skins some respect. I believe that Shanny's resume concerning Olinemen speaks for itself. If he thinks Williams is the better fit, then I'm sold. These draft pundits are :beatdeadhorse: with the Okung and Williams debate. We got our guy, and I hope he spends the next 10 years rubbing it in their faces that they were wrong. :point2sky

[pvkeeper19]

Okung is not that much better than Williams in pass pro, although he is slightly better. Okung does a better job on the counter moves, but overall Williams isn't too far behind. His pass protection will need to progress at the NFL level, but it's not as bad as some of these people try to make it out to be.

Inherent in your argument is this: Russell Okung is a better tackle than the guy we drafted. That's why the Okung people aren't convinced this was the right move.

Besides, who's to say Williams has a "higher ceiling" than Okung? He may be more athletically gifted, but Okung has always been a hard worker, and it's not as though he's a clumsy oaf. Chris Samuels wasn't super athletic for a lineman--he was just smart and worked hard to maximize his talent, and it worked out brilliantly. I think there's a pretty good chance Okung is the same kind of player, and from what I've seen and read of Williams, there's a pretty good chance he's not that sort of guy.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

[theboomking]

This is one concern that I'll gladly accept. Williams simply isn't all that strong. His bench press reps are pretty low for a 300 lb. lineman. Fortunately, though, bench press strength isn't necessarily what being a lineman is all about. I'd rather see his Squat and deadlift (or clean) numbers. I'm still not sure why those aren't things that these guys look at.

I've never understood the complete fascination with the bench press for a football player. Sure, if you can bench big weight you have a strong upper body, and a strong upper body is important for a lineman, but the most important aspect of strength performance is what you can do on your squat.

I wish we had those numbers.

The squat is probably a more predictive lift for the running game, where players try to explode from the hips and drive the other guy off the ball.

The bench does seem like the best measure for pass protection, were you are using your legs to try not to get outflanked, and using your arms to try to punch the guy back and impede his progress.

That being said, I don't think the bench press numbers mean much in this case, other than that Okung has clearly been the more diligent worker in the weight room. Trent Williams probably has the best punch in this year's class and is also the best run blocker. I don't think Williams has any functional strength deficit on the field.

I do think Okung is the safer pick, but if Shannahan liked Williams, and Alex Gibbs liked Williams, who am I to argue?

[monkeezgob]

Well, we've got him, so we'll see exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are next season. Let's just wait and see what he does on the field before we big him up or destroy him.

[Chump Bailey]

I agree with him. I would have taken Okung too.

[skinsfan4128]

The squat is probably a more predictive lift for the running game, where players try to explode from the hips and drive the other guy off the ball.

The bench does seem like the best measure for pass protection, were you are using your legs to try not to get outflanked, and using your arms to try to punch the guy back and impede his progress.

That being said, I don't think the bench press numbers mean much in this case, other than that Okung has clearly been the more diligent worker in the weight room. Trent Williams probably has the best punch in this year's class and is also the best run blocker. I don't think Williams has any functional strength deficit on the field.

I do think Okung is the safer pick, but if Shannahan liked Williams, and Alex Gibbs liked Williams, who am I to argue?

Good points. I think the hoopla surrounding the Okung vs. Williams debate is overblown. Fact is, we took the player that represents the best fit for the offensive scheme. Okung did not fit the scheme as well as Williams. Shanny has had tremedous success with his olines in the past, so I'm going to trust he knows what he's doing.

[redskins55]

Shanahan is tied to this puppy not us. So there really is no need for an entrenched debate. I liked Okung better and believe Okung will have a better career.. BUT when its all said and done its Shanahan's legacy that is riding on that draft pick, not ours. So hopefully he will prove doubters wrong.

[rookieskin]

I love that fact that TW has played other spots on the line and if he does not work out at LT, can slide over.

My only concern is that if he does not work out, who the heck are we going to plug in.

As of right now, who is ou best OLineman?

Derrick?

Artis?

The rookie?

Rabach?

I like that BMW was selected as Buffalo's 4th pick as well.

You will have 2 first round 4th picks working with something to prove!

[Rocky21]

What is NFPost.com and what makes their opinion better than this board's?

[jfr3ek]

i think its more to just pure talent than anything...ya, Okung may have been the more talented player out of the draft, but i think with a little coaching up, Williams will be a better football player due to the scheme and superior coaching. Good luck to Okung in Seattle. But Williams has the upper hand in my opinion.

[skinsfan4128]

I love that fact that TW has played other spots on the line and if he does not work out at LT, can slide over.

My only concern is that if he does not work out, who the heck are we going to plug in.

As of right now, who is ou best OLineman?

Derrick?

Artis?

The rookie?

Rabach?

I like that BMW was selected as Buffalo's 4th pick as well.

You will have 2 first round 4th picks working with something to prove!

Truth is, should TW not work out at LT, we can plug him in at RT. The only true concern Shanny would have then is who would man the LT position. My guess is that we haven't seen the last of the oline signings yet. Perhaps a team cuts a lineman soon, or maybe "hotel" adams is signed as insurance. Should be interesting.

[bird_1972]

Either way, who cares?

At the very least, he becomes our RT. We need that as well, so it's a win/win for us. I don't care, ultimately, if we took him with the #4 overall or not. If he sucks at LT, we will likely have another high draft pick next year anyways.

[pvkeeper19]

Either way, who cares?

At the very least, he becomes our RT. We need that as well, so it's a win/win for us. I don't care, ultimately, if we took him with the #4 overall or not. If he sucks at LT, we will likely have another high draft pick next year anyways.

I love that strategy! Get high draft picks next year by making bad picks this year! If we do it right, we can have the top pick EVERY YEAR!

[skinsfan4128]

i think its more to just pure talent than anything...ya, Okung may have been the more talented player out of the draft, but i think with a little coaching up, Williams will be a better football player due to the scheme and superior coaching. Good luck to Okung in Seattle. But Williams has the upper hand in my opinion.

I had thought about this as well. Okung is headed to Seattle with Pete Carroll and Alex Gibbs. We all know Alex Gibbs has been a terrific oline coach for years, but I'm kinda at a loss how Okung fits. Is Seattle going to run the ZBS? If not, why would Gibbs go there? :paranoid:

I think at the end of the day, both okung and TW will have solid careers. Here's to hoping that TW has the more productive one though.

[JimmyZ123]

I stopped reading after I read that. So we made a pick that was a better fit for our team, yet we made a "big mistake"? Sure thing, slugger.

yeah it really is amazing how we pick "the best fit" but its a mistake. get out of here joker. seattle woulda taken williams at 6 no questions asked. i understand shanahn doesnt have the BEST track record but when it comes to RB's and Olinement he is absolutely one of the best. i hope this guy watches every snap TW takes this season and watches how a real evaluator of talent works.

[The Tris]

What is NFPost.com and what makes their opinion better than this board's?

I think its a fairly good site, with their big slugger being Mike Lombardi. Lombardi has worked as a FO executive for the Broncos, 49ers, Raiders, Browns, and Eagles, and is now an analysis for the NFL Network as well.

And generally speaking, I enjoy Bunting's analysis, though his mock was way off this year.

Williams vs Okung is an easy argument to make, as it's the classic high ceiling vs. high floor debate. The topic has been beaten to death, and it basically breaks down to those who feel we should draft safe with high picks vs. those who think we should draft on who has the best potential.

Valid arguments on both sides, and as I don't think anyone will dispute that this pick carries some risk, I'm not sure how Wes Bunting is going to add to the many discussions we already have going on the topic.

[The Tris]

I love that strategy! Get high draft picks next year by making bad picks this year! If we do it right, we can have the top pick EVERY YEAR!

Thats a little dramatic don't you think?

[Quixote]

Okung could be the mistake.... we have to wait and see!

[skinsfan4128]

Okung could be the mistake.... we have to wait and see!

If the season started tomorrow, it wouldn't start soon enough. :point2sky

[RealisticSkinsLoyalist]

I agree that Okung would have been a better pick. Our O-Line is so bad that we need someone like Okung who can step in immediately, or else McNabb isn't going to look much better than JC. Also, if Williams doesn't come through, then we come away with nothing from the deepest draft in years, unless one of the later round guys comes through.

Williams may have more "upside" and may be a "better fit," but I'll take the sure thing who has proven that he can play.

[PlayAction]

How many times does an OT have to run the 40 yard dash in a game? Rarely. So, who cares? 4 cone drill is much more important as well as what the scouts see in his ability to get out to the LBs (considerably closer than 40 yards). The pundits thought that Williams was better in run blocking than Okung but not as good as Okung in pass protection. Shanny has a run-heavy version of the WCO in contrast to the Philly WCO. The pundits also thought that Williams was better than Okung when operating in space as would be required in the ZBS.

So, it really comes down to this...Okung may be the "better" OT overall if he was judged by all 32 teams. But Williams is the higher ranked OT for the Skins offense. So, which would you rather have for the Skins?

[The Tris]

I agree that Okung would have been a better pick. Our O-Line is so bad that we need someone like Okung who can step in immediately, or else McNabb isn't going to look much better than JC. Also, if Williams doesn't come through, then we come away with nothing from the deepest draft in years, unless one of the later round guys comes through.

Williams may have more "upside" and may be a "better fit," but I'll take the sure thing who has proven that he can play.

We are not drafting for this year alone. We are drafting for the next 5-10 years.

So if we are going all in this season, then yeah, Okung would be the pick, b/c he is more NFL ready today. But if Shanny is looking at at 3-5 year window, the thinking is that by the 2nd or 3rd season, when we should be really competing for a championship, Williams will be the better of the two after some seasoning.

Williams over Okung represents that we are not 100% win now IMO, but rather are trying to build for a 5 year window.

[skinsfan4128]

How many times does an OT have to run the 40 yard dash in a game? Rarely. So, who cares? 4 cone drill is much more important as well as what the scouts see in his ability to get out to the LBs (considerably closer than 40 yards). The pundits thought that Williams was better in run blocking than Okung but not as good as Okung in pass protection. Shanny has a run-heavy version of the WCO in contrast to the Philly WCO. The pundits also thought that Williams was better than Okung when operating in space as would be required in the ZBS.

So, it really comes down to this...Okung may be the "better" OT overall if he was judged by all 32 teams. But Williams is the higher ranked OT for the Skins offense. So, which would you rather have for the Skins?

I think this says it all. TW is the better tackle for what Shanny is running in DC. I'm certainly not implying that Okung won't be successful, just saying TW is better for us.

[warriorz]

Bruce Allen DID say that his approach to the draft was NOT Best Player Available but Best Player for what the Redskins want to do....said that in an interview a while ago.