ES: Redskins free agency plan: just say no

[Conn]

To be honest, I've thought about the posibility of trading Carter. Certainly given his age, it is a posibility in my eyes.

Right now, the only thing driving the Peppers stuff, as far as I can see, is Haslett's comments.

Agreed on both points.

[Hitman21ST]

Right now, the only thing driving the Peppers stuff, as far as I can see, is Haslett's comments.

How much weight are Shanahan and Allen putting on Haslett's comments though? If Mike is of the mindset that he'll give way to Haslett when it comes to defensive personnel, I think we should pay attention.

[TSO]

So it's not even a remote possibility to you, Mr. Murf man, that if we do go out and get Julius Peppers that the coaches view him as a player that fits a specific role in the best way, just like your Team USA analogy? :pfft:

What if we only sign him to a 3 year deal or less? Does his age concern you then?

I'm not saying I'd love the move... just that I'm willing to give it a chance if it happens and am certainly unwilling to say "nothing has changed" if they do it.

[themurf]

So it's not even a remote possibility to you, Mr. Murf man, that if we do go out and get Julius Peppers that the coaches view him as a player that fits a specific role in the best way, just like your Team USA analogy? :pfft:

What if we only sign him to a 3 year deal or less? Does his age concern you then?

I'm not saying I'd love the move... just that I'm willing to give it a chance if it happens and am certainly unwilling to say "nothing has changed" if they do it.

Of course if the Redskins make a run at Peppers they'll say "He's exactly what this team needs." They have to. What else would you say? "We like to overpay for big names because it makes us relevant for one month out of each year."

I'm just tired of the cycle. Every year it's the same thing. Free agency splash. Fans talk themselves into this being a playoff team. Season starts and the 'Skins have no margin for error. If anything goes wrong or anyone gets hurt the entire season is down the drain and the Redskins finish last in NFC East. Again.

Meanwhile, real teams actually have long-term vision and plans. They build a team using draft picks (GASP!) and try to fill specific needs rather than sell jerseys. You'd think with the Capitals successfully blowing up their "good enough to occasionally make the playoffs, but no real threat once they get there" team and rebuilding the right way (waving goodbye to "name" players in favor of draft picks and youth) that more people in this town would see the light.

But people will dismiss it because 1.) hockey is not football and 2.) it's easier to close our eyes and pray a fatally-flawed team gets hot enough to back into the playoffs rather than admit this organization has zero chance of winning a Super Bowl if they continue to embrace a fantasy football mindset.

I'm not mad at Shanahan and Allen. Hell, we don't even know what will happen once free agency kicks off. I just hope that they avoid the pitfalls that have doomed this franchise since the day The Danny took over.

[TheLongshot]

I'm just tired of the cycle. Every year it's the same thing. Free agency splash. Fans talk themselves into this being a playoff team. Season starts and the 'Skins have no margin for error. If anything goes wrong or anyone gets hurt the entire season is down the drain and the Redskins finish last in NFC East. Again.

The same? The team for the last couple of years has been focused on the draft, mostly. Really, Big Al is the exception in all of that, and his position was expressed as a need when Blache took the job.

But, a lot of it is pointless if you keep having turnover at the top, especially if you are making major changes each time you make that change.

Meanwhile, real teams actually have long-term vision and plans. They build a team using draft picks (GASP!) and try to fill specific needs rather than sell jerseys. You'd think with the Capitals successfully blowing up their "good enough to occasionally make the playoffs, but no real threat once they get there" team and rebuilding the right way (waving goodbye to "name" players in favor of draft picks and youth) that more people in this town would see the light.

I wonder how good the Caps would have been if they didn't luck into Ovechkin.

I'm not mad at Shanahan and Allen. Hell, we don't even know what will happen once free agency kicks off. I just hope that they avoid the pitfalls that have doomed this franchise since the day The Danny took over.

The person that needs to avoid the pitfall is Danny and making sure that the guys at the top are able to hold their jobs, either by being successful or having the wherewithal to stick it out. Hopefully putting Allen in charge of football operations is a good first step in that direction.

[Going Commando]

Peppers might not make much sense for us but other big name free agents would. I think both Antrel Rolle and Karlos Dansby could be beneficial signings and both look like they will command some money in a thin market. I probably wouldn't sign both but it'd be nice to get one of them, especially Dansby.

Free agency is a useful tool but it's only one tool to build with. Our problem hasn't been so much that we sign lots of free agents. It's been that we've squandered away our draft picks in stupid trades that have mostly failed. Because of our carelessness with the draft, we've been forced to rely so heavily on free agency which hasn't been successful.

[authentic]

And there's still a lot of fluff out there that people are buying into & becoming nervous about. Where would you even put Peppers at with Rak & Carter on the ends & Carter coming off a career year.

Thats why I haven't even wasted my time commented on Peppers. It makes no sense what so ever.

[Hitman21ST]

It's a vicious circle:

bad big name free agent pickups -> trading away draft picks to fill holes left by free agent pick ups -> not being able to complete roster with the draft -> bad big name free agent pickups

[SkinsGuy]

Thats why I haven't even wasted my time commented on Peppers. It makes no sense what so ever.

True on the overreacting part.

It's a waste of time to lament over anything right now, b/c nothing has been done.

It is a nice article, but a bit presumptive for March 2nd.

Shanahan and Allen have said NOTHING about anything. Their plans have been a very tightly held secret.

All the talk about free agent pick-ups have come from fans and the media, not the team.

I'm not suggesting fans stop talking and speculating about FA pick-ups b/c that is what message boards are for.

However, there is a difference between talking about something and getting very upset over things that haven't even happened (yet).

Folks need to relax.

[pjfootballer]

Longshot,

I disagree that we have been concentrating on the draft. Have we been better at picking players in the draft? Yes. Have we had our full complement of picks (7 or more)? No. Only once (2008?) in the last 5 years or so have we had all 7 picks and didn't have to rely on getting comp picks to help bring the numbers up. I agree that the FO did a better job evaluting the draft, but we still go out to sign the most expensive FAs when 12:01 rolls around.

As for the Capitals, it wasn't luck. It was the fact that they traded away all their star players for picks. Ovechkin was because we were the worst team in the league. No luck there. We got alot of picks from other teams for Jagr, Lang, et al. and it gave us Fleischmann, Green, Backstom, etc. from those picks we acquired.

And the team (not just Dan, but Mike and Bruce) need to make sure they get guys in Free Agency that fill team needs and not go after name. It's nice to be able to outspend other teams, but if they don't fit the system, its a moot point.

[Hitman21ST]

PJFB, and what I'm saying is if the FO all agrees that Peppers is what fits our defense, would it be a bad thing or just "going back to the old ways" if we get him?

[themurf]

True on the overreacting part.

It's a waste of time to lament over anything right now, b/c nothing has been done.

It is a nice article, but a bit presumptive for March 2nd.

Shanahan and Allen have said NOTHING about anything. Their plans have been a very tightly held secret.

All the talk about free agent pick-ups have come from fans and the media, not the team.

I'm not suggesting fans stop talking and speculating about FA pick-ups b/c that is what message boards are for.

However, there is a difference between talking about something and getting very upset over things that haven't even happened (yet).

Folks need to relax.

You and I actually agree that no one knows for sure what will happen next. The point of this article is simply my admission that I bought in completely to the hype around the new regime. I gave the entire organization a "do-over" when Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan came on board because I felt it was the first step in making this a professionally run franchise. I couldn't help but believe that the old ways of (unsuccessfully) doing business were a thing of the past.

Going after Julius Peppers represents that old-school way of thinking that they could buy a ring. It makes no sense if you're actually familiar with the Redskins as presently constructed because he plays what might be the only position of strength (other than tight end) this team has.

Plus he's moody. And his work ethic has been questioned. And his teammates have never really gone out of their way to praise anything about him other than his on-field talent. He's this years Albert Haynesworth. And since last year's Albert Haynesworth didn't exactly work out the way we all hoped, I was kind of hoping they'd stop playing in a Yahoo! online league and start acting like a competent NFL front office.

My only hope is that Pepper's agent is floating their name in hopes of driving up the price tag on his client and that the Redskins are staying mum on the subject because they don't feel obligated to say anything. If that's not the case, the pessimistic side of me can only believe this is the first sign that although the names have changed, the results likely won't.

[pjfootballer]

Hitman,

My last paragraph says that. I'm not saying we shouldn't go after free agents. We only have 5 picks, so we really have no choice. I was referring to Longshot saying we've concentrated on the draft more than free agency, which I believe is not true. By all means, sign guys, as long as they fit the budget and the need. If Peppers can fill at LDE in the 3-4, get him as long as they are budget conscious.

[themurf]

I wonder how good the Caps would have been if they didn't luck into Ovechkin.

I don't play hypotheticals. But if you do, then feel free to look at the Baltimore Ravens, New England Patriots or any other team (in any of the other professional sports) that smartly chooses to build through the draft and targets youth/players who fit a specific need rather than overpaying aging veterans for past successes.

If you do your homework the rest of the year, then free agency is icing on the cake. If you sleep through class and then wake up at midnight Friday ready to overpay ... well, you get the hint.

The Redskins aren't alone. The New York Knicks and Rangers also come to mind. But the difference is, this actually involves my favorite football team. If you're fine with it, that's fine. I'm not.

[eeyeats]

We bring Team USA up for good reason. Take a look at their roster. You won’t see an all-star team. You won’t find a collection of the biggest names. Instead, you’ll find players handpicked to play a very specific role.

first of all, great post! hoever, i must quibble with the above comparison. no disrespect intended, at all, i understand the sentiment you're trying to convey here, and it's accurate to a point, but i think you've severely underplayed, or at the very least misrepresented, the talent on team USA's roster.

to cite a few examples:

Brian Rafalski, 2 All-Star games, 3 Stanley Cups

Erik Johnson, 1st Overall Pick, WCHA All-Rookie Team

Brooks Orpik, Top 20 pick, 1 Stanley Cup

Bobby Ryan, 2nd Overall Pick

Zach Parise, 1 All-Star Game

Dustin Brown, 1 All-Star Game

Jamie Langenbrunner, 2 Stanley Cups

Patrick Kane, 1 All-Star Game, 1st Overall Pick

Ryan Miller, has pretty much been lights out for the sabres since 2005.

these may not be the "all-stars" like ovechkin and crosby, but there is no doubt that the roster reads like a who's-who of young american superstar hockey players. yes they were picked to play roles, but don't think just because they're young that they're not all-star caliber. this is a far cry from the 1980 team they have been recently compared to. these guys are all pros, and all stars on their respective teams.

not trying to make a hockey thread on a football board, just trying to point out to non regular NHL fans that these are not no-name players; in fact, quite the opposite. for USA-born NHLers this is pretty much an all-star team.

[themurf]

first of all, great post! hoever, i must quibble with the above comparison. no disrespect intended, at all, i understand the sentiment you're trying to convey here, and it's accurate to a point, but i think you've severely underplayed, or at the very least misrepresented, the talent on team USA's roster.

to cite a few examples:

Brian Rafalski, 2 All-Star games, 3 Stanley Cups

Erik Johnson, 1st Overall Pick, WCHA All-Rookie Team

Brooks Orpik, Top 20 pick, 1 Stanley Cup

Bobby Ryan, 2nd Overall Pick

Zach Parise, 1 All-Star Game

Dustin Brown, 1 All-Star Game

Jamie Langenbrunner, 2 Stanley Cups

Patrick Kane, 1 All-Star Game, 1st Overall Pick

Ryan Miller, has pretty much been lights out for the sabres since 2005.

these may not be the "all-stars" like ovechkin and crosby, but there is no doubt that the roster reads like a who's-who of young american superstar hockey players. yes they were picked to play roles, but don't think just because they're young that they're not all-star caliber. this is a far cry from the 1980 team they have been recently compared to. these guys are all pros, and all stars on their respective teams.

not trying to make a hockey thread on a football board, just trying to point out to non regular NHL fans that these are not no-name players; in fact, quite the opposite. for USA-born NHLers this is pretty much an all-star team.

Like I said, they could have gone with bigger names, such as Mike Modano and Chris Chelios, but they opted to stick with young, lesser-known players. If you follow hockey as closely as I do, then yeah, you know who these guys are. But I'm writing a football article while referencing hockey. I don't automatically assume everyone is diehard about every sport I follow.

Everyone in the discussion has talent. Never said anything different. I simply said that Team USA had a plan to stick with young guys who might not have the same name recognition or resume as others, but were a better fit for the style they wanted to play.

[McD5]

Great responses Murf, and you are absolutely correct.

I have noticed an absence of "Haynesworth is awesome" threads on ES.

Maybe because he only put up numbers roughly 50% of what he did the year prior to coming to Washington?

And Orakpo had his biggest game with out-of-shape Al on the bench.

The cycle just keeps repeating. Either the player slacks off, or our coaching has just sucked, but they never outperform. The truth is probably a combination of the two.

[Hiro]

But, as I've found out in other threads (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=318263), would Rak be a better 3-4 DE or OLB?

A 3-4 OLB. Orakpo's skillset is a virtual carbon-copy of DeMarcus Ware's and I have a feeling that Orakpo would absolutely thrive in the role of a pass rushing OLB.

[eeyeats]

Like I said, they could have gone with bigger names, such as Mike Modano and Chris Chelios, but they opted to stick with young, lesser-known players. If you follow hockey as closely as I do, then yeah, you know who these guys are. But I'm writing a football article while referencing hockey. I don't automatically assume everyone is diehard about every sport I follow.

Everyone in the discussion has talent. Never said anything different. I simply said that Team USA had a plan to stick with young guys who might not have the same name recognition or resume as others, but were a better fit for the style they wanted to play.

i know you're writing a football post, not a hockey post, and i i said it's quite good. i wasn't challenging your hockey knowledge. i just wanted to take a minute to point out to people who don't follow the sport closely that these are not merely role players, they also happen to be the best age-32-and-under american players in the league (the only exception being rafalski).

its true, they could have gone with modano and chelios, but that's not realistic at this point. if they had, i would argue it would have been for name recognition only, and not for their current talent level (especially chelios, who is 48 and really horrible at this point).

each of the players on team USA may have been good for their role, but they also were the best players available. the "snub" list is short and the names on it dubious at best. Team USA went with an all-star team, they used age as a tie-breaker when making the roster.

lastly, good hockey fans (as with football fans) could argue these points all day. i guess, at the end of the day, i'm tired of the national media coverage of the olympics talking about this team of unheralded youngsters and making comparisons to 1980, and perhaps my sensitivity to this is at a high point. so in reading your redskins story, i just wanted to give an FYI for the non-hockey fans; no challenge intended.

[TheLongshot]

I disagree that we have been concentrating on the draft. Have we been better at picking players in the draft? Yes. Have we had our full complement of picks (7 or more)? No. Only once (2008?) in the last 5 years or so have we had all 7 picks and didn't have to rely on getting comp picks to help bring the numbers up. I agree that the FO did a better job evaluting the draft, but we still go out to sign the most expensive FAs when 12:01 rolls around.

Actually, if you count the selection of Jarmon, we have had at least 7 picks the last two years.

I'm not sure why you think drafting and signing FAs are considered mutually exclusive. I guess you are expecting the Skins to become the Steelers or the Colts. While they do have a successful formula, it isn't the only successful formula out there.

I don't play hypotheticals. But if you do, then feel free to look at the Baltimore Ravens, New England Patriots or any other team (in any of the other professional sports) that smartly chooses to build through the draft and targets youth/players who fit a specific need rather than overpaying aging veterans for past successes.

If you do your homework the rest of the year, then free agency is icing on the cake. If you sleep through class and then wake up at midnight Friday ready to overpay ... well, you get the hint.

The Redskins aren't alone. The New York Knicks and Rangers also come to mind. But the difference is, this actually involves my favorite football team. If you're fine with it, that's fine. I'm not.

There is a point, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree a little bit. I look at all the turnover and changes in philosophy in the past ten years that this team has gone though and it is pretty obvious that that is the main reason for the lack of success in this town. The one coach that did last more than a couple of years (Gibbs) also is the coach that most played for success in the short term.

It is one thing that does have me nervous about Shanahan, that he's going to be looking more at short term success than long-term building of a team. It is something I hope that Allan balances out somewhat.

That being said, I'm not taking a sign that the team might be aggressive in FA as a bad sign in itself. In fact, I expect that it will be the norm for all team under Snyder, because he enables his football people to be aggressive. Overall, I do not think that is a bad thing, as long as the FO guys make good decisions.

[themurf]

i know you're writing a football post, not a hockey post, and i i said it's quite good. i wasn't challenging your hockey knowledge. i just wanted to take a minute to point out to people who don't follow the sport closely that these are not merely role players, they also happen to be the best age-32-and-under american players in the league (the only exception being rafalski).

its true, they could have gone with modano and chelios, but that's not realistic at this point. if they had, i would argue it would have been for name recognition only, and not for their current talent level (especially chelios, who is 48 and really horrible at this point).

You saw elderly players like Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer out there for Team Canada and Sergei Fedorov and Viktor Kozlov out there for Team Russia, right? Team USA was one of the few teams to actually try to keep the old folks off the roster.

And I didn't take any of your comments as a challenge or disrespect. I'm all for debate and intelligent sports conversation. Thanks for participating.

[Travdaskin]

While I don't see a need for Peppers, if we had Orakpo, London Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh, and Julius Peppers at the LB spots I wouldn't complain at all. If they feel like Peppers will bring it every game for them and he is worth the risk why not. It relies on them EVALUATING him and other players correctly...

[allskins]

I'm thinking there's a good possibility that the agents of these free agents are conjurring up these stories to get the best possible offer for their clients. I know if I were their agent I would. Everybody knows the Redskins have deep pockets and aren't afraid to spend, what better way to market your client than to say the Redskins are interested in them.

If the stories are true and the Redskins are interested in Peppers and Sprolles and whoever else is out there, my only hope is that they only go for players who's possition is a need and at the market price, not OVER spend on these players (any of them). I hope my expectations are not too high?

[dfbovey]

And there's still a lot of fluff out there that people are buying into & becoming nervous about. Where would you even put Peppers at with Rak & Carter on the ends & Carter coming off a career year.

Carter would go on the trading block if Pepper's is signed. There wouldn't be any reason to keep him. He struggled as a LB in San Fransisco when he was asked to play the position. Which is why he was even available to the Redskins to begin with. I wouldn't expect his success from last year to carry over.

[authentic]

I think Carter should go on the block regardless.