WP/Jason Reid: Mike Mayock agrees with taking a QB at 4

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I wish SB and CM were both going to throw this wknd. I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison of the route tree and see what throws each struggled with.

No one else responded b/c its a difficult question to answer. Plus you won't get as many emotional responses, so how is that any funnnnn.

What are you talking about I responded to why we should draft Bradford.

[The Tris]

What are you talking about I responded to why we should draft Bradford.

Oh my bad dude, theres a lot of posting going on.

I went back and check it out, we cool.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Oh my bad dude, theres a lot of posting going on.

I went back and check it out, we cool.

No problem man.

[ArmchairRedskin]

You guys questioning the Schefter guarantee that Bradford will be picked #1, here's the link

http://www.101espn.com/post/38853_burwell_and_stelton_show_note_wednesday_22410/audio

It was first posted yesterday in the BoB thread. I listened to it and it's true. Schefter did claim Bradford #1.

[shemp nixon]

You should be a little bit more detailed before you carry on. By first pick, did he mean the first overall pick in the draft, our first pick, the first QB picked, and where is the link???

In the Backers of Bradford thread, post 311. Sorry about that, my bad....Shefter says the Rams will take Bradford with the first pick.

[J-bomb]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sp...#ixzz0gPjyYj0U

Mayock does think Bradford is a franchise QB though.

"Sam Bradford is a franchise quarterback and he is a top-10 player," Mayock said.

Then why won't the rams take him?

[Going Commando]

You guys questioning the Schefter guarantee that Bradford will be picked #1, here's the link

http://www.101espn.com/post/38853_burwell_and_stelton_show_note_wednesday_22410/audio

It was first posted yesterday in the BoB thread. I listened to it and it's true. Schefter did claim Bradford #1.

Nice I just listened to that. Schefter is a gentleman and a scholar. He's a bit of an oracle so if Schefter says it, it usually comes to pass. I have to admit though that I've got mixed feelings about this.

If the Rams take Bradford does that mean we are going to take Jimmy Clausen at 4? If that's the case then this is terrible news.

But if it means we'll go ahead and draft a guy like Anthony Davis or Russell Okung and either target a guy like Colt McCoy later on, or look to the 2011 class for help then I'm relieved.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Then why won't the rams take him?

Who says they won't?

[J-bomb]

Who says they won't?

I want them too. I'm tired of hearing the "If he's a franchise QB then you take him at 4........ What are the skins the only one to think Bradford is a franchise QB? Rams need a franchise QB as well so my question to all of those that think that, is shouldn't the Rams draft Bradford at 1 if he is all that?

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I want them too. I'm tired of hearing the "If he's a franchise QB then you take him at 4........ What are the skins the only one to think Bradford is a franchise QB? Rams need a franchise QB as well so my question to all of those that think that, is shouldn't the Rams draft Bradford at 1 if he is all that?

Because they may feel Suh is to Dominate to pass up. I mean honestly Suh has been the most DT I have ever seen so I wouldn't blame them taking him.

[J-bomb]

Because they may feel Suh is to Dominate to pass up. I mean honestly Suh has been the most DT I have ever seen so I wouldn't blame them taking him.

I agree but some boards don't even have him as the best DT.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I agree but some boards don't even have him as the best DT.

Yeah some think that McCoy has more upside. I don't agree I mean Kiper said he was the best player he had seen in 32 years that is saying alot. I know Mayock likes McCoy along with McShay but things will change once after the Combine and the Pro Day work out. Suh sold me on the Big 12 Championship game against Texas and how dominant he was.

[J-bomb]

Yeah some think that McCoy has more upside. I don't agree I mean Kiper said he was the best player he had seen in 32 years that is saying alot. I know Mayock likes McCoy along with McShay but things will change once after the Combine and the Pro Day work out. Suh sold me on the Big 12 Championship game against Texas and how dominant he was.

Yes his Reggie white impersonation sold me also!

[darrelgreenie]

If the Rams take Bradford does that mean we are going to take Jimmy Clausen at 4? If that's the case then this is terrible news.

But if it means we'll go ahead and draft a guy like Anthony Davis or Russell Okung and either target a guy like Colt McCoy later on, or look to the 2011 class for help then I'm relieved.

I have great respect for Schefter, but how can a team pass up Suh or McCoy?

I don't think our staff will view Bradford as a 'franchise' QB.

But, if they do then they'll should view Clausen as a 'franchise' QB also.

And if that's the case then they should take Clausen at 4.

But, i would be surprised if our staff will value Bradford/Clausen as must have 'franchise' QB especially when our choice of the top LTs are on the board.

[Going Commando]

I have great respect for Schefter, but how can a team pass up Suh or McCoy?

I don't think our staff will view Bradford as a 'franchise' QB.

But, if they do then they'll should view Clausen as a 'franchise' QB also.

And if that's the case then they should take Clausen at 4.

But, i would be surprised if our staff will value Bradford/Clausen as must have 'franchise' QB especially when our choice of the top LTs are on the board.

I don't know... do you really think they'd be so high on Clausen? Mayock thinks he should go around 13 or 14 and said he'd be a reach at 4. Shanahan and Allen are staking their careers here on any QB they take, particularly in the top 5. Do you really think they are going to want to do that with a guy like Clausen? This is their first season here and they are still learning the ins and outs of our roster. I think you are right about the FO--I'm not sure they will feel comfortable with that kind of risk when there are good offensive tackles on the board.

One thing to keep in mind is that Shanny and Allen haven't gotten a chance to hire some of their own scouts yet since they can't wipe out a whole year of work the current staff has already put in on these prospects. They might not even fully trust the scouting department yet. Given all that, I don't think they'll feel comfortable going to war with a prospect like Clausen.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't know... do you really think they'd be so high on Clausen?

Nope.

But, if they're high on Bradford i don't see why they wouldn't be high on Clausen.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if Clausen was selected; something i heard months ago has stuck with me:Mike Golick mentioned that he ran into Mike Shanahan at a ND game.

Mayock thinks he should go around 13 or 14 and said he'd be a reach at 4.

Different scouts different opinions, Kiper has Clausen as the No.1 QB going to the Skins at 4.

Shanahan and Allen are staking their careers here on any QB they take, particularly in the top 5. Do you really think they are going to want to do that with a guy like Clausen?

I don't think the which QB matters as much as the situation (OL etc) and the coaching.

Me personally, i think that Clausen is the better QB prospect.

I think you are right about the FO--I'm not sure they will feel comfortable with that kind of risk when there are good offensive tackles on the board.

I think coaches that have faith in their abilities to groom a QB don't feel the need to take a QB with a top pick. Shanahan has only done it once, imo because of a situation with Plummer forced his hand. Holmgren's QB pipeline has produced many starting QBs and none if i can recall were 1st round picks. McCarthy took Rodgers what late 1st or 2nd? Andy Reid is an exception but he's also doing a good job of grooming Kolb who's a 2nd round pick? Childress is doing a good grooming with T. Jackson whose a 2nd round pick? (BTW i find it amusing that Eagles fans and the general sports media think more of Kolb then Vikings fans and general sports media think of Jackson). Bill Walsh took Montana in the 3rd? And acquired Steve Young with 2nd and 4th.

And its hard to imagine our staff could value either QBs above the top LTs especially when considering our need.

Given all that, I don't think they'll feel comfortable going to war with a prospect like Clausen.

I don't see why they wouldn't, i don't know enough about Clausen 'attitude' to either believe or disbelieve opinions about them so i don't even factor them in to my opinion of Clausen, i'm just looking at what i saw from watching him play.

If i had to pick which draft prospect QB would most appeal to Shanahan independent of the draft ranking i think it would be Colt McCoy

[The Tris]

And its hard to imagine our staff could value either QBs above the top LTs especially when considering our need.

If i had to pick which draft prospect QB would most appeal to Shanahan independent of the draft ranking i think it would be Colt McCoy

Who's to say Shanny doesn't feel QB is a bigger need than LT?

I don't think McCoy's arm is going to appeal to someone who's best QBs have been Elway and Cutler.

[blindlywewander]

Who's to say Shanny doesn't feel QB is a bigger need than LT?

I don't think McCoy's arm is going to appeal to someone who's best QBs have been Elway and Cutler.

We've got a mobile QB with a strong arm on the roster already.. just sayin..

[The Tris]

We've got a mobile QB with a strong arm on the roster already.. just sayin..

Accuracy is overrated

[Taylor 36]

Accuracy is overrated

:laugh:Exactly. What good does it do a team to have a strong armed QB that can't hit the broad side of a barn if it is more than 15 yards away from him???

[Going Commando]

Who's to say Shanny doesn't feel QB is a bigger need than LT?

I don't think McCoy's arm is going to appeal to someone who's best QBs have been Elway and Cutler.

That's debatable. If I had the choice today, I would actually take Steve Young over John Elway. Young's accuracy, efficiency, fire, competitiveness, and athleticism would translate to dominance in any era.

Joe Montana was Shany's best QB resume wise, but I think Steve Young was the best for Mike Shanahan specifically. They were on a whole other plane together from 92-94. Shanahan might be a Vulcan because I think he mind melded with Young over that time period. They were probably the most efficient scoring machine of my life time. Young led the NFL in touchdown passes and QB rating all three years Shanahan was his coordinator. This was the golden age of QBs too where Marino, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Kelly, Montana, Moon, Cunningham, and Bledsoe populated the NFL. Hell even Jeff George was pretty good around that time but Young was better than all them. If he had managed to stay healthy, people would talk about him as the GOAT.

Also I think you are underestimating Colt McCoy's arm strength. This is from CBSS:

Arm Strength: Improved arm strength over his career, and now has good zip on underneath patterns and short outs. Only adequate arm strength on deeper throws, although he can sneak a 40-yard rope into the end zone if he spots an open man. Inconsistent spiral on intermediate and longer tosses. Rarely throws into tight spots between defenders.

It's not a backup arm. I doubt he's got much less arm strength than Clausen and no one ever questions him.

look what else they say:

NFL Comparison: Jake Plummer, ex-Cardinals/Broncos

so the comparison is there.

And when asked about what his most important traits in a QB were, Mike Shanahan responded something like accuracy and a love of football/the desire to be great. Arm strength never came up in the conversation.

[The Tris]

That's debatable. If I had the choice today, I would actually take Steve Young over John Elway. Young's accuracy, efficiency, fire, competitiveness, and athleticism would translate to dominance in any era.

Also I think you are underestimating Colt McCoy's arm strength. This is from CBSS:

look what else they say: so the comparison is there.

And when asked about what his most important traits in a QB were, Mike Shanahan responded something like accuracy and a love of football/the desire to be great. Arm strength never came up in the conversation.

Sure, I am just saying. I don't want to get into a debate about who out of JM, SY, or JE would be the best QB today, that is ball of wax to be saved for the Jully doldrums. But I agree.

This issue with CM is arm strenght aside, QBs that can't hit and 18 yd out and "flutter" their deep balls have issues in the pros. If I am Shanny, I am trying to minimize my risk on the QB I take to groom for the next 5 years. His success will be tied directly, so if you say that CM would appeal to him, then why would SB not. SB is a bigger, stronger version of a CM. They both have concerns coming out of spread offenses, and they both were sheltered by great lines and solid skill position players. To re word your favorite question, "If McCoy appeals to Shanny's tastes, why would Bradford not?"

I think Plummer was Shanny's stopgab solution, and he replaced him in the middle of a 7-4 season so he could put in his draft pick Culter. Wheather it was the right move or not at the time is debatable, but what is not is that the JP skill set was used out of necessity not choice by Shanny. I don't factor that into a ringing endorsement for McCoy.

That last comment is the most damning piece of evidence for Jason Campbell yet.

[Going Commando]

Sure, I am just saying. I don't want to get into a debate about who out of JM, SY, or JE would be the best QB today, that is ball of wax to be saved for the Jully doldrums. But I agree.

Haha. that's probably true. But when you say the phrase "Mike Shanahan QB" Steve Young is the first name that pops into my mind, not John Elway although obviously both were great.

This issue with CM is arm strenght aside, QBs that can't hit and 18 yd out and "flutter" their deep balls have issues in the pros.

The scouting report says he can throw 40 yard ropes in the end zone so I don't think his deep ball is questionable. Also, I've seen Peyton Manning throw more fluttery deep balls to perfect spots than any QB of the past ten years. I don't think it's that big a deal if your timing and placement are correct. Some guys just don't have to spin it perfectly to get it done.

We'll see if CM can stick the deep out at his proday I guess. It's disappointing he's not throwing this week but it could be beneficial to us in the long run if it keeps him in the second round.

If I am Shanny, I am trying to minimize my risk on the QB I take to groom for the next 5 years. His success will be tied directly, so if you say that CM would appeal to him, then why would SB not. SB is a bigger, stronger version of a CM. They both have concerns coming out of spread offenses, and they both were sheltered by great lines and solid skill position players. To re word your favorite question, "If McCoy appeals to Shanny's tastes, why would Bradford not?"

Because McCoy is a senior and Bradford is a junior who missed almost all of last season to start. But mainly because Bradford is a likely top 10 pick and Colt McCoy should be available in the second round. If the difference between them is pretty slim like I think it is, it's better draft value to go OT-QB.

I think Plummer was Shanny's stopgab solution, and he replaced him in the middle of a 7-4 season so he could put in his draft pick Culter. Wheather it was the right move or not at the time is debatable, but what is not is that the JP skill set was used out of necessity not choice by Shanny. I don't factor that into a ringing endorsement for McCoy.

I don't know, they were pretty serious about Jake Plummer when they signed him. His undoing was his awful decision-making and propensity for turnovers. I don't think Colt McCoy has demonstrated those kinds of problems yet since he's one of the more efficient QBs in college. If I were drawing an NFL comparison for McCoy, again, I'd say it's Drew Brees. Coming out of college they are so similar:

-Similar offensive system

-Similar stature

-Similar athleticism

-Similar arm, similar release and throwing motion

-Similar college accolades

-Similar college stats

-Similar competitiveness and on-field demeanor, similar intangibles

-Similar "chip on your shoulder" mentality

but most of all,

-Similar ridiculous touch and accuracy

Both are/were considered late first to second round picks because of physical reasons. The difference could be that teams might know better now than to pass on a Drew Brees style QB. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings draft him at the end of round 1.

That last comment is the most damning piece of evidence for Jason Campbell yet.

Campbell is actually pretty accurate on his intermediate passes which is what I think Shanahan will build this year's offense around. He lacks timing on his deep ball and touch on the short passes, but he can stick those mid range throws so I actually think he'll be alright this year if we can get him protection.

[darrelgreenie]

Who's to say Shanny doesn't feel QB is a bigger need than LT?

They very well could value a QB higher then the LTs.

But, personally i have a hard time imagining they would.

Taking a QB would surprise me but not shock me because they media pundits seem to think its pretty likely and where there's smoke....

I don't think McCoy's arm is going to appeal to someone who's best QBs have been Elway and Cutler.

I don't consider Cutler in the conversation of Shanahan's best QBs.

Imo Cutler was equal to or only slighty better then Plummer (who btw ran himself out of town by missing OTAs)

I think anyone who worked with Montana even for a short time probably has him ranked as either their best or one of their best QBs and of course there Steve Young.

All three have varying levels of arm strength but they all have far above average mobility as a common trait.

[C26 Run]

Mayock is still thinking of the recent successes of Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez and thinks it would apply to our team. The Falcons, Ravens and the Jets all invested in the O-lines before drafting their QBs.

It's so easy for people to want to draft a "franchise" QB but if he doesn't have a line to protect him he'll be blown out of the pocket. I hate it when people talk about drafting a "franchise" QB, what does that mean? If you can't protect the franchise by protecting the "franchise" QB then you will almost always lose.

:helmet: