Program alert: Houston texans vs titans on Sunday

[gutlead74]

Hey guys, just a heads up the texans vs titans is on NFL network Sunday at 5:30. Of course this is important to us seeing Kyle at work.

[Mr. Sinister]

Thanks! Although it'll be good to get a look at his playcalling tendencies, chances are he'll have to tweak things a little bit to cater to the strengths of his players. So his offense here could look waayyy different as far as his philosophy. I still think he'll get the job done though.

[Yeen80]

Training Camp is still 5 months away

[gutlead74]

I think a lot of the concepts will transfer.

[Laxpunk2006]

I think a lot of the concepts will transfer.

I think you're absolutely correct. I wish I got NFLN here at college so I could take a peek.

Obviously we're going to see a better mix of Run/Pass as we aren't quite as one-dimensional as Houston. They have a real strength in the passing game and a real weakness on the ground. Unfortunately for us neither is quite the strength they have but our running game wasn't as bad either. Zorn at least succeeded in "keeping us medium" .

The game could be interesting to see how our personnel match matches up and how certain players may be used. Vinny Cerratto (I know :doh:) described Malcolm Kelly as an Andre Johnson type reciever. Obviously not the same talent but supposedly a similar style. If there is any merit to this claim we might be able to see what kind of routes we can expect him to be running.

I'm not sure if Slaton was injured at this point but it could also be interesting to see how he is used. I would think as a speed back if Alridge makes the team he might be used in a similar although more limited role.

Lastly I think we should get a big look at how Fred Davis/Chris Cooley are going to be implemented into our offense. Owen Daniels put up great numbers in only half a season so it looks like young Shanahan has the same TE friendly offense as his father.

[SIXX99]

I think his offence will look a lot different. In Houston he had a huge target wide receiver to work with and here is biggest passing threat is a tight end. Hopefully his new offence will elevate Malcolm and Devin's games to new levels. I'm nothing but optimistic about Kyle.

[Laxpunk2006]

I think his offence will look a lot different. In Houston he had a huge target wide receiver to work with and here is biggest passing threat is a tight end. Hopefully his new offence will elevate Malcolm and Devin's games to new levels. I'm nothing but optimistic about Kyle.

Well like I said earlier Malcolm Kelly certainly isn't as good as Andre Johnson but his role although more limited, could be very similar. He also had a good TE in Owen Daniel in Houston who actually put up much better numbers than Cooley. Granted Cooley was called on to block frequently and we aren't as strong at the QB position but it does show potential for a strong emphasis on that position.

[gutlead74]

Kelly is similar in dimensions, but not in speed.

[CRobi21]

Of course its gonna look different in terms of the overall picture. We don't have an explosive WR like Andre Johnson, or a QB who put up the kind of numbers their QB did.

You have to look at the small things. OL play, blocking schemes. Route combinations the WRs run. Things like that.

Thanks gut, I'll be tuning in.

[gutlead74]

It's nice to see someone watching blocking schemes.

[darrelgreenie]

Hey guys, just a heads up the texans vs titans is on NFL network Sunday at 5:30. Of course this is important to us seeing Kyle at work.

I watched some Texans game last year but i'll be paying much closer attention, in fact i might already have this game saved.

It a chance to take a look at what Kyle did offensively, especially in the passing game.

I think we could learn a lot from looking at and charting the following:

o formations: which ones and how often

o run/pass split specific to the formations

o types of runs specific to the formations

o 3-5-7 step drop, action and play-action passes how many times were each used

o how was the pass protection how often did Schuab get pressured or hit vs how often he had a clean pocket

o types of routes hitches, slants, posts etc...

o specific plays that stood out

o how open were the WR?

o how often were 2 TEs passing plays used

Thanks for the heads up

[theboomking]

I'd also check out Dunta Robinson on D.

[NoVaSkins21]

Of course its gonna look different in terms of the overall picture. We don't have an explosive WR like Andre Johnson, or a QB who put up the kind of numbers their QB did.

You have to look at the small things. OL play, blocking schemes. Route combinations the WRs run. Things like that.

Thanks gut, I'll be tuning in.

Exactly. It's something that we can hope the Skins can aspire to be.

[Chicken Fried]

Training Camp is still 5 months away

Yeah, but the draft is only 2 months away!

[Hitman21ST]

or a QB who put up the kind of numbers their QB did.

I don't want to turn this into a love/hate JC thread, but can someone research how productive Matt Schaub was before he played under Shanahan? I don't remember him being a world beater before these last two years.

If that's true, and he put up numbers similar to or worse than JC, then I'm really optimistic. Scratch that, I'm optimistic anyway, just that this might make me even more.

[darrelgreenie]

Its on right now, we can get a idea of some the concepts we might see this season with Kyle

[darrelgreenie]

Quick takes from the Texans v Titans NFL replay:

o The Texans often use 'tight' formations with a Twin WR concept

e.g.- they often went singleback 3 WR 1 TE except the flanker WR was in tight to the TE and not side:

WR...............WR.......T-G-C-G-T-TE

......................................QB............WR

.......................................RB

They used a lot of double TEs formations and both TEs get targeted:

They often used this set: it shares the same Twin WR concept above and adds a double TE stack at the U and Y

-They used this set^^ to attack the seam w/ their 2nd TE Dresden

They use some common formations that we used like this 2 TE set (except they actually passed form it and often to their TEs)

The share classics like: I-Form pro and they use a lot more Off-set I which i haven't seen use often

o Kyle didn't give up on the running game

o They use a lot of motion and it works to get receivers favorable often 1-on-1 match-ups

o I was amazed at how often they found away to get Andre Johnson matched up 1-on-1 and how often they got him and Jacoby Jones WIDE OPEN

o They are effective with the RB screen game

o They run a lot of 5 and 7 step drop passing

They ran I-Form tight where they motioned the Z receiver into the backfield

..............T--G--C-G-T-TE.....................WR

..............WR.....Q

.......................FB

.......................RB

They did a 7 step playaction pass where Schaub had all day to wait for a wide open Andre Johnson beautiful play

o The routes: they scored on a Post route which was practically absent from the Zorn offence in general anyone remember they last Post route we even threw?: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80d543de/Santana-Moss-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Bengals-2008,

they also attacked with the Seam route with the TEs

and the got Andre Johnson matched up 1-on-1 and threw slants

They ran a fan favorite TE screen from a 5 receivers no back set very similiar to this one against the Cards from shotgun @1:21 http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b02019/NFL-GameDay-Cardinals-vs-Redskins-highlights

They ran playaction to the TE on the goalline

Other notes:

o Early on the Texans called a draw on 3rd and 18 they didn't get it

-funny thing is the Titans also called a draw on 3rd and 18 and scored a TD

i thought it was a good reminder that fans always overeact i can just see the posts when Kyles calls a run on 3rd and long, lol

Andre Johnson has great focus and body control he was running a drag route and the ball was thrown about 2 yard behind him he had the presence of mind to reach back and tip the ball to himself and made a great catch

The main thing i took from this game is that Kyle is gonna make good use of this formation with 2 WR/2 TE personnel and with 3 WR 1 TE personnel

Anyone watch the game?

[redskns21]

Greenie, that was a great breakdown, thanks for the work and the pictures to explain. It'll sure be crazy to see a real NFL offense installed on this team. Definately didn't have it under Zorn and as much as I love Coach Gibbs, his offense was dated and I never really felt as though it was innovative at any point, even with Al's 700+ page playbook.

[gutlead74]

I watched some of the game, kind of in and out today havent had time to study it yet. first blush is a whole lot of screens and two TE sets and of course some zone scheme.

[Enter Apotheosis]

o They use a lot of motion and it works to get receivers favorable often 1-on-1 match-ups

Both Shanahans tend to rely heavily on pre-snap motion and aren't terribly concerned with having somewhat unorthodox personnel groupings for certain formations (WRs in the backfield, backs split out wide, etc.). I haven't watched much of the Texans but it's definitely a big part of how Mike Shanahan was able to get a bead on opposing defenses and exploit their weaknesses later in the game.

[Brett81]

...can someone research how productive Matt Schaub was before he played under Shanahan? I don't remember him being a world beater before these last two years.

He's not a world beater per se, but it was obvious back when Schaub played at UVA that he had a lot of promise. Coming in in place of Vick while Vick was still with the Falcon's, he showed that ability. The reason Houston went out and stole him from Atlanta in the first place.

Oh and I've seen probably 12 Texans games or so over the past 2 years since Schaub has been there, and this is the reason I was clamoring for Kyle Shanahan back when daddy was an option for coming here as HC months ago. Thankfully, I got my wish.

BTW, nobody really even knew about Owen Daniels before the last couple years, and if he hadn't gotten hurt would have put up top numbers by a tight end this year...good news for Cooley and Davis.

[gutlead74]

BTW, nobody really even knew about Owen Daniels before the last couple years, and if he hadn't gotten hurt would have put up top numbers by a tight end this year...good news for Cooley and Davis.

yah and all the two TE sets will shut these fools up that want to trade Cooley

[darrelgreenie]

Both Shanahans tend to rely heavily on pre-snap motion and aren't terribly concerned with having somewhat unorthodox personnel groupings for certain formations (WRs in the backfield, backs split out wide, etc.). I haven't watched much of the Texans but it's definitely a big part of how Mike Shanahan was able to get a bead on opposing defenses and exploit their weaknesses later in the game.

I thought people would be excited to talk about which if any of the Texans concepts would translate to our Redskins team.

I think a lot of Kyle's concepts will translate.

I think Mike/Kyle's ability to diagnose and attack defenses and dictate coverage will result in our primary receivers being open more consistently which will result in simpler reads for our QB.

The question is personnel and i think we have similiar talent at the skill positions.

Matt Schaub at this point is a superior QB to anyone we have now and will have next year. But, with the guidance from Mike S/Kyle/LeFleuer i think our QB is going to get top level coaching and a chance to have success.

I think the our TEs as a unit are as good if not better.

The Texans receiving corp is clearly better then ours mainly because of the singular talent of Andre Johnson.

But, i think Moss and Thomas speed could give a similar vertical component and run after the catch ability and Kelly's similar size and hands. So the combination of our 3 top receivers could fit different elements of their passing game that Johnson provided. In one respect our receiving corps could be better then their because while we don't have 1 receiver as good as AJ each of our top 3 has at least 1 similiar trait.

The running back comparison is difficult because they had a down year with Slaton's sophmore slump but we have a proven back in Portis whose dedication and health are a hige question mark.

I hope that we don't forget about our other backs and as a unit i think we have the better backfield.

The major area of difference other then QB was OL.

They run a lot of 5 and 7 step drop passes, with play-action and bootlegs mixed in.

And quite frankly at this point we don't have an OL that can play anywhere near their level.

So the question becomes how much can we upgrade our OL and how much can coaching and continuity improve our OL?

And how much can they tweak their scheme to match the ability or lack thereof of our OL and still have a productive offense?

[Gregpeck99]

Shaub was successful aginst Titans because time and again he read the blitz and threw accurate passes quickly ... stuff Campbell absolutely is incapable of doing ... just sayin ....

[darrelgreenie]

Shaub was successful aginst Titans because time and again he read the blitz and threw accurate passes quickly ... stuff Campbell absolutely is incapable of doing ... just sayin ....

I bet you didn't even watch the game just couldn't pass the opportunity to add your nonsense, thanks again greg.