NBC News: Pat-downs for all travelers from some nations

[Destino]

I'm fine with profiling and directing increased scrutiny to people flying to and from certain nations, but blanket rules do not work...particularly when they are being implemented by basically untrained officers.

The problem is that short of having a CIA/FBI office at every airport the security on site will never have top notch training in threat detection. Most of our security already comes from the intelligence organizations and that will remain the case. The only thing this changes is the perceived security in certain areas, and the effectiveness of perception changes shouldn't be downplayed. I'd be shocked if terrorists would attempt to go through mandatory pat down airports as their first choice following this change.

[twa]

Oh boy.....Anybody see the major problem with this strategy?

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/air-marshal-surge-race-time/story?id=9493323

President Barack Obama has ordered a "surge" of federal air marshals to be in place by Feb.1 in what officials said was a "race against time," with other suicide bombers believed to be in the terrorist pipeline, although there is no specific imminent threat, federal officials told ABC News.

Under a preliminary plan, the officials said the already existing federal air marshal force of more than 3,200 personnel would be deployed almost exclusively to overseas flights flown by U.S. carriers.

"The United States does not have a security system; it has a system for bothering people."

Shlomo Dror, an Israeli air security expert

[DeanCollins]

I like it, how about adding $350 per ticket to travelers from those countries to pay for TSA so we don't have to. When do we get down to profiling the "religion of peace"? After all, not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists (in airports) are Muslims. So if you're born in a certain country, and or a Muslim, you get strip searched, your bags turned inside out, and pay a few hundred dollars for the privilege.

[Thiebear]

The people in Detroit were prepared to look at him in secondary inspection," a senior law enforcement official said. "The decision had been made. The [database] had picked up the State Department concern about this guy -- that this guy may have been involved with extremist elements in Yemen."

I mean come on, they were going to talk to the pieces of him that landed in Detroit...

no reason to overblow this.

[Larry]

Oh boy.....Anybody see the major problem with this strategy?

Well, I have a problem with the melodramatic language.

However, I think that if the vulnerability is "aircraft flying through US airspace, loaded with people who went through security systems that the US can't control", then this sounds like a pretty good solution.

I don't know how much good an air marshal could have done against Joe Crotchbomber. I would assume that the only way he's going to be stopped in the act is if someone who's within a few seats of him stops him. I don't think an air marshal who's sitting 5 rows away could have done much.

But it doesn't seem like a bad response. Especially since it can be implemented quickly.

[da#1skinsfan]

Targeting specific countries or ethnicities is a stupid idea - it just gives Al Qaeda a profile of the type of airplane bomber they should recruit who won't be seen as suspicious. For example:

The best thing we could ever do is keep ALL of this quiet and make it the most highly top secret info that nobody knows. I guess there is no way around it since the TSA guards have to enforce it but as you said, all this will do is ensure that Al Qaeda uses different passports next time.

[Corcaigh]

I like it, how about adding $350 per ticket to travelers from those countries to pay for TSA so we don't have to. When do we get down to profiling the "religion of peace"? After all, not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists (in airports) are Muslims. So if you're born in a certain country, and or a Muslim, you get strip searched, your bags turned inside out, and pay a few hundred dollars for the privilege.

That's a brilliant strategy.

First we tell Al Qaeda exactly what and who we're looking for.

Second we demand every one of the millions of visitors to the USA who bring us tens of billions of dollars in revenue that they must disclose their religion. For 20% of the people on the planet this will involve additional cost and intrusion. None of this will do any good because we've already told Al Qaeda exactly who and what we're looking for.

The underpants bomber was a single male travelling:

(1) WITHOUT BAGS

(2) ON A ONE WAY TICKET

(3) PAID FOR IN CASH

(4) AND WAS KNOWN TO FEDERAL AUTHORITIES AS AN EXTREMIST

(5) AND HAD BEEN DENIED A VISA BY THE BRITISH AUTHORITIES

None of these five items caused him to be stopped, but you think every Muslim should be checked as a precaution when we simply can't be bothered to implement security to catch such obvious warning flags.

Foolproof security is very hard, but basic stuff like the above, and having TSA employees watch for BEHAVIOR, (not nail clippers or over-sized shampoo bottles) will improve chances of success. The LA bomber was caught not because of skin color, religion or anything else but because the lowly employee thought he was acting 'hinky' when she asked him questions. Based on this behavior his truck was searched and explosives found. Similalrly stories have been reported on the behavior of the 9/11 attackers as they passed through the airport.

[twa]

Well, I have a problem with the melodramatic language.

However, I think that if the vulnerability is "aircraft flying through US airspace, loaded with people who went through security systems that the US can't control", then this sounds like a pretty good solution.

I don't know how much good an air marshal could have done against Joe Crotchbomber. I would assume that the only way he's going to be stopped in the act is if someone who's within a few seats of him stops him. I don't think an air marshal who's sitting 5 rows away could have done much.

But it doesn't seem like a bad response. Especially since it can be implemented quickly.

Wouldn't the manpower be better directed on the ground before the flight?

With that type of bomb there is nothing to stop it but detection(or direct intel),the measures taken to secure the cabin and the change in peoples attitudes have made the Air Marshal superfluous to a large degree.

Just something to placate the masses.

[DeanCollins]

That's a brilliant strategy.

First we tell Al Qaeda exactly what and who we're looking for.

Second we demand every one of the millions of visitors to the USA who bring us tens of billions of dollars in revenue that they must disclose their religion. For 20% of the people on the planet this will involve additional cost and intrusion. None of this will do any good because we've already told Al Qaeda exactly who and what we're looking for.

The underpants bomber was a single male travelling:

(1) WITHOUT BAGS

(2) ON A ONE WAY TICKET

(3) PAID FOR IN CASH

(4) AND WAS KNOWN TO FEDERAL AUTHORITIES AS AN EXTREMIST

(5) AND HAD BEEN DENIED A VISA BY THE BRITISH AUTHORITIES

None of these five items caused him to be stopped, but you think every Muslim should be checked as a precaution when we simply can't be bothered to implement security to catch such obvious warning flags.

Foolproof security is very hard, but basic stuff like the above, and having TSA employees watch for BEHAVIOR, (not nail clippers or over-sized shampoo bottles) will improve chances of success. The LA bomber was caught not because of skin color, religion or anything else but because the lowly employee thought he was acting 'hinky' when she asked him questions. Based on this behavior his truck was searched and explosives found. Similalrly stories have been reported on the behavior of the 9/11 attackers as they passed through the airport.

Oh, you took my post seriously . Of course it wouldn't prevent the islamic extremists form using other methods, but it would significantly burden their ability to use there natural resources (young radicalized muslim men).

[Corcaigh]

Oh, you took my post seriously . Of course it wouldn't prevent the islamic extremists form using other methods, but it would significantly burden their ability to use there natural resources (young radicalized muslim men).

I'm all for stopping radicalized Muslims and giving them a second check (and a third and a fourth and then refusing them boarding 'cause why the **** not).

But how do we spot the radicals among the billion or so other Muslims on the planet? If only it said on their passport: "Religion: Radical Muslim and so proud of it I don't mind paying DeanCollins' additional $350 security fee per flight, 'cause after all I'm saving the cost of the return ticket and any baggage fees".