Hitman#21 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Allen with this Cap space should do wonders. I wonder who he brings in at season end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 That sounds kind of different from what the St. Petersburg Times guy was saying about Allen being someone who rarely said no to Gruden or the owners. But if it's true, then that's good to hear. The verbal fights between Gruden and Allen are pretty well known. Gruden even talked about them on MNF earlier this year. Gruden: I know he has bad knees, but this kid could really be something. Allen: No. Too risky. Let's look at this other player in the same position, but without the risks. He also had to work for cheap owners. Like Pittsburgh cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 .Allen was the stabilizing rudder that would pull Gruden in, and stay away from "risky" drafts. This guy is professional. Boring. And solid. Exactly what we need. Which is the main reason why I don't think that Allen will advise Snyder to hire Gruden. He already will have his hands full with an owner who acts this way, why complicate an already complicated situation by having a manic HC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkSkins Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Gruden's beef was with McKay, not Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Oldfan, rejoice!You don't have to defend that loser Vinny anymore. A huge weight has been lifted off of the organization. And one guarantee--Bruce Allen will be drafting need. No more BPA in DC, which ultimately, is what got Vinny fired. Drafting need will have Bruce Allen out the door in three or four seasons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyno Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I would say it is the second biggest myth around the league. The 1st is that many fans think the Redskins are masters of the cap. This only pertains to redskins fans But.. It all depends on your definition of cap mastery.. If you define cap mastery as excellent management of resources and allocations, then you could say they are down right retarded. However, if you were to define it as an ability to manipulate numbers within the system in such a way that they can allocate resources pretty much anywhere they want if and when they want it, then they are geniuses. Eric Shaeffer (I believe) is responsible for cap resources and there likely isn't another individual in the league with the knowledge and ability to structure and restructure contracts and resources with such cunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeachRedskin Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I would say it is the second biggest myth around the league. The 1st is that many fans think the Redskins are masters of the cap. The "wizards of the cap" thought is a joke. It was our restructuring of deals every season that put us in our current situation of having an old, broken down roster. No team will benefit more than the Redskins if next season is an uncapped year as the potential cuts/retirements (and the resulting dead cap) would have seriously crippled our ability to put together a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Gruden's beef was with McKay, not Allen. At the end it also was with Allen. It ultimately was Gruden and his style of coaching that got Allen fired as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Drafting need will have Bruce Allen out the door in three or four seasons too. If you have needs, fill them. If you don't, you can't compete. Most are going to like this guy an awful lot. He is 180 degrees different from Vinny. He won't embarrass the organization. He values character. Bruce Allen players don't get arrested. No one on this board can name a Buc that had legal troubles when he ran the show. There won't be any Darius Hayward-bust type of picks. You won't be scratching your head wondering why the hell did we just draft another TE next year. Huge improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB17 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yeah, I keep wondering about that. I remember a story after Gruden was fired about the QB issues that they had and that Allen and Gruden never saw eye-to-eye on that issue. It is why there were so many QBs when he was there, because Gruden never had any confidence in any of the young guys that Allen provided.I don't know if that speaks good or ill of Allen or not. What I want to know is whether it speaks good or ill of Jason Campbell. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 If you have needs, fill them. If you don't, you can't compete.... I just talked to Belichick on the phone. He says you are full of it. You don't reach to fill needs. You use cheap FAs to fill gaps until the draft offers a high grade player at your position of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Our cap hell issue is one of the biggest myths around the league, still... Most fans only believe what they read on ESPN about other teams, and once ESPN stopped talking about "cap hell" and never really acknowledged that it never really came to happen, that myth just continued to perpetuate with uninformed and unknowledgable fans. To some extent the whole cap hell concept was a myth. It was in part an excuse used to cut certain players and give the player a chance to still swing a big deal so that parting terms were much more amicable than they appeared. It was in part a way FOs could excuse themselves for messing up with third and second tier players. It was in part away to create a level of excitement in fans during the off season. If next year is uncapped, it pretty much proves that the idea of cap hell, at least for us, was a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I just talked to Belichick on the phone. He says you are full of it.You don't reach to fill needs. You use cheap FAs to fill gaps until the draft offers a high grade player at your position of need. Nobody said anything about reaching. If the need is huge, but it would be reaching where you are currently at, then trade down. You won't see him make the same fatal mistakes that Vinny made--like 3 receivers in the same round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxpck Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 BLAH BLAH BLAH ALLEN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VINNY Done and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The verbal fights between Gruden and Allen are pretty well known.Gruden even talked about them on MNF earlier this year. Gruden: I know he has bad knees, but this kid could really be something. Allen: No. Too risky. Let's look at this other player in the same position, but without the risks. THAT'S a "verbal fight"? lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggosMohawk Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 He won't embarrass the organization. He values character. Bruce Allen players don't get arrested. No one on this board can name a Buc that had legal troubles when he ran the show. Do I get a prize for knowing that Jerramy Stevens got suspended 5 days after being signed for the 2d time by the Bucs? Granted he did not get arrested during his time there (that was all in Seattle), but it's the best I can do: On May 30, 2008, Stevens was re-signed by the Buccaneers after the team waived quarterback Bruce Gradkowski. On June 4, 2008, he was suspended for 2 games and fined 3 game checks after violating the NFL's substance abuse policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The "wizards of the cap" thought is a joke. It was our restructuring of deals every season that put us in our current situation of having an old, broken down roster. No team will benefit more than the Redskins if next season is an uncapped year as the potential cuts/retirements (and the resulting dead cap) would have seriously crippled our ability to put together a roster. I don't know about that. When I think of cap mastery, I don't really factor in the relative value of the players signed into the equation. It's strictly about numbers and being able to manage contracts in a way that will allow the owner/GM/coach to get their guy(s) signed. Whether or not the owner/GM/coach are making proper decisions on personnel is an entirely different thing altogether. You can't fault the cap wizards for a lack of youth and depth. I do agree that we will benefit from an uncapped season more than anyone, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 ];7122105']They think Bruce Allen is here to save our cap.A- No team managers the cap better than Washington. If we weren't so good at it' date=' we would have been in cap hell every year between 2003-2006. We are wizards with contracts. B- Allen has never had the resources he'll have here. That may be a bad thing though, because I don't like his past signings or draft picks.[/quote'] But I do wonder if our wizardry with the cap is part of why we have such an o-line issue. Remember, some of our biggest cap assignment was tied up in o-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The verbal fights between Gruden and Allen are pretty well known.Gruden even talked about them on MNF earlier this year. Gruden: I know he has bad knees, but this kid could really be something. Allen: No. Too risky. Let's look at this other player in the same position, but without the risks. He also had to work for cheap owners. Like Pittsburgh cheap. Now pair that with Dan Snyder in the background yelling to take X player and you have the perfect scenario why not to have Gruden here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 THAT'S a "verbal fight"? lol... Yes:) Gruden would get pretty vocal about it. On MNF, he said how emotional and fired up he would get. Allen is the calming, quiet influence. Professional. That is the best word to describe him. Or even-keeled. Do I get a prize for knowing that Jerramy Stevens got suspended 5 days after being signed for the 2d time by the Bucs? Granted he did not get arrested during his time there (that was all in Seattle), but it's the best I can do:On May 30, 2008, Stevens was re-signed by the Buccaneers after the team waived quarterback Bruce Gradkowski. On June 4, 2008, he was suspended for 2 games and fined 3 game checks after violating the NFL's substance abuse policy That's about as bad as it gets with Allen. He is Gibbsian in emphasis on character. We won't have the Tank Johnsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Nobody said anything about reaching.If the need is huge, but it would be reaching where you are currently at, then trade down. You won't see him make the same fatal mistakes that Vinny made--like 3 receivers in the same round. Trading down isn't easy to do these days because there aren't many teams drafting for need -- thus willing to pay the cost of trading up to fill them. Oher over Orakpo would have been a need pick. That's a win-now move. Win-now moves, like Gibbs's trading up in the draft and trading picks for vets are the reason we have neglected the O-line. It was our strongest unit at one time, the prime candidate for neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Trading down isn't easy to do these days because there aren't many teams drafting for need -- thus willing to pay the cost of trading up to fill them.Oher over Orakpo would have been a need pick. That's a win-now move. Win-now moves, like Gibbs's trading up in the draft and trading picks for vets are the reason we have neglected the O-line. It was our strongest unit at one time, the prime candidate for neglect. You and I feel the same about Gibbs. And your quote "Oher over Orakpo would have been a need pick, a win-now move" is speculation. That isn't to win today. That is to win for years to come. Oher was projected very high, and has played extremely, extremely well. Protecting your QB is never a "win now" move. Keeping your QB out of the hospital is crucial. It is a need that every team has, yet Vinny couldn't ever grasp it. Which is much of the reason why he is now unemployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 ...And your quote "Oher over Orakpo would have been a need pick, a win-now move" is speculation. That isn't to win today. That is to win for years to come... It's a win-now move because, if winning now isn't the primary motive, then there's no reason at all to pass on Orakpo to reach for a player with a lower grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 It's a win-now move because, if winning now isn't the primary motive, then there's no reason at all to pass on Orakpo to reach for a player with a lower grade. Both had very high grades Oldfan. I think you have probably seen the thread about "doing the draft over." Oher was the first pick. According to that article, with league scouts, he is consesus top 5. Getting him at 13 would have been an absolute steal. One of those guys keeps your QB out of the hospital. One doesn't. That isn't win-now. That is understanding that your QB can't throw TD passes if he is on crutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Nobody said anything about reaching.If the need is huge, but it would be reaching where you are currently at, then trade down. You won't see him make the same fatal mistakes that Vinny made--like 3 receivers in the same round. What if you can't trade down though? It is very possible that we may have a Top 10 draft pick next year with no option of drafting a worthy OL or trading down. In that case, do you adress the next biggest need? Which would be? Or, do you simply make that pick count and draft the best player left on the board? At least you know you're getting talent. Conversely, it's is perfectly fine to reach for need in the 2nd round, because the payoff of drafting BPA is lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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