heyholetsgogrant Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 About a year and a half ago, I graduated from UMD with a B.A. in Criminology. I decided that I do not want to go into corrections or join the police (I really wanted to be an Analyst in some fashion, but I don't have the experience or the background most federal agencies are looking for). Being that I have a social science degree it's almost impossible to find a decent job right now with my background (i.e no professional experience, working retail, daddy is not corporate big wig, no connections, etc). All the people I knew who got hired out of college had a connection, or neighbor who literally gave them jobs, the rest are in the same boat as me (yes, I figured out quickly that in the real world it's about connections). I have been talking to a lot of people lately and I have been getting different opinions of what to do. A few people I talked to say it's not worth the debt and believe there is a upcoming education bubble? A few people suggested a grad school. I was thinking of going back to school for either accounting or information systems, because those lead to career paths. If you were in my shoes what would do? Thanks, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrifNick21 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Heck yeah you should go back. If you're even thinking about it, that should tell you that you should. You're still young, so why not? Got your whole life ahead of you, so I'd definitely go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Go back and get your Masters degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Go back to school. Try and do so while accruing as little debt as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 GW has a good post grad accounting program. My girlfriend went there and made alot of connections which lead to a job with Ernst and Young. Plus bunch of her friends all work for Deloitte, PWC and other top firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Another option that might be considered is external professional certifications. My career stalled, even after getting my masters degree, until I started accumulating various certifications and specialties. My income went up by many 10's of thousands as a result too. just wanted to throw out alternatives that arent very expensive yet yield great returns at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Education Bouble? That's crazy talk. You can never go wrong with education. But remember education is the foundation, it's not what makes you valuable, anymore. What makes you valuable is (1) experience, and (2) certifications.. With industry changing so fast, the traditional 4 year degrees or 2 year master programs just can't keep up. Those things still look great on resumes and are ecensial for getting through the glass ceilings you will encounter after you career progresses. But what is going to make you employable in this tough marketplace isn't another degree. If you want to be an analyst, I would go out and get a certification in ITIL (Unformation Technology Infrastructure Library). It's process lifecycle stuff, Industry is laping it up with a spoon. Can't get enough of it. It's the latest buz word for process consultants. The foundation exam is pretty simple to get. Get a good book over at Amazon, and study for a few days... it's a 40 question multiple choice exam. It's tough and might take you a few attempts to pass, but it's easier than a graduate degree. After then you can put ITIL on your resume and it will give you some play, I would also take the four follow on certifications. They are six question multiple choice exames and you've got 90 minutes to complete them. Sounds simple, but you've also got to take a class to qualify for each exam. The classes are a little expensive, but all four should take you all together a month, tops. If you want to go Information systems, I'd pick a few Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, or Sun Java certifications depending upon what I were interested in. Get a few of them on your resume. You'll get a job..... Just after you get that job, keep plugging away on the certifications. Cause that's will allow you to keep getting better and better jobs. When you get to be 30-33, then I would go back and get an MBA, only make sure it's from a top 20 school, cause the others just aren't nearly as helpful. If I were you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yes, it would help to return to school, maybe you can return to UMD for grad school good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 GW has a good post grad accounting program. My girlfriend went there and made alot of connections which lead to a job with Ernst and Young. Plus bunch of her friends all work for Deloitte, PWC and other top firms. GW, great school, but I probably don't have the grades to get in. In the course of my college career my GPA is around a 3.2, plus I dont do well on standardized test :mad:. Also, GW is way too expensive and it's the most expensive school in the US. In fact, I know a girl who went there, and racked up over 100k in debt for a degree in Woman's Studies :doh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Another option that might be considered is external professional certifications. My career stalled, even after getting my masters degree, until I started accumulating various certifications and specialties. My income went up by many 10's of thousands as a result too.just wanted to throw out alternatives that arent very expensive yet yield great returns at times. That's a great point, SS. What certs did you find most valuable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 GW, great school, but I probably don't have the grades to get in. In the course of my college career my GPA is around a 3.2, plus I dont do well on standardized test :mad:. Also, GW is way too expensive and it's the most expensive school in the US. In fact, I know a girl who went there, and racked up over 100k in debt for a degree in Woman's Studies :doh:. That's the undergrad program which is vastly overpriced and overrated. There's the a reason they are called (GW)Georgetown Waitlist :hysterical: But their Masters program is cheaper although I'm not sure about admission standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 That's a great point, SS. What certs did you find most valuable? Mainly the ASQ certs, but those are pretty specific to my role at work. The Six Sigma Black belt cert was by far the most beneficial in terms of pay scale though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Do not go back to school until you are sure of why you want to go back and what you want to study. In my opinion you don't know about either of these until you have some full time work experience. I just started grad school myself and I'll share my story in case it might help... I graduated in 06 and immediately moved to DC. I had some office and retail experience from college but didn't really know anyone in DC. I ended up getting a job (through craigslist) with an association and worked there for a year. It wasn't a perfect job but it paid ok and I was able to get some valuable experience. Six months into that job I started applying for government jobs and half a year (yes, sometimes it takes that long) later I got my job with the federal gov't (found it through avuedigital). After about a year at that job I started looking for new jobs and realized that all the things I was interested in required a masters degree or at least the knowledge that came along with a masters. It was at that point I decided I wanted to go back to school. I had considered going right out of undergrad but now I'm really glad I didn't because after working some I know exactly why I'm going to school and I have a good idea of what I want to do when I get out. I'm not here because there's nothing else for me to do (I quit a very cushy, good paying government job to be here), and I'm not here just because I "should" be (though it is pretty much expected at this point if you want to move up in the federal government or nonprofit world). I don't know exactly what your work situation is now, but my advice to you, find some way to get into the field you may be interested in for a year or so. If you'd be going back to school anyway, why not take an internship for a year? Or volunteer somewhere? You can also take a class or two while you're interning/volunteering to see if going back to school really interests you. It's October now, if you can find something for the next year or so, that will give you the perfect amount of time to research schools and programs and apply next admissions cycle. I will also add that from the experience of many of my friends, it seems that if you can get work experience BEFORE you go back to school, you'll find it much easier to get a job in your specific field when you graduate. Those people I know who did grad or law school straight out of undergrad had to spend 1-2 years after grad working jobs that were only tangentially related to their interests. Once they got that 1-2 years of experience, they were able to move into their fields, but they felt like they would have benefited from getting that sort of general experience before as opposed to after their grad degree. Ok, end information overload. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 In a quick google search I found a professional cert that may be one option... Registered Public-Safety Leader (RPL). http://www.apcointl.org/institute/RPL_program.htm also here is a list of associations related to the CJ fields. http://www.glencoe.com/ps/cj/cgi-bin/splitwindow.cgi?top=top.html&link=http://www.corrections.com/aca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonsieRB34 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I don't think going back to school is as much of a no-brainer as others in this thread suggest. I tend to agree that it is a smart option, but you should first become more specific with what you want and make sure that the investment is necessary. You mentioned that you might like analytical work in the accounting/finance field. If so, you can probably land yourself a GS job with the Navy, for example, without a masters. Regardless, you should ensure you get a degree that is a bridge towards your career, and not necessarily just for the credentials. I suggest you call HR professionals from organizations that you could see yourself working for, and ask them for their advice. For example, if you want to work for Deloitte, you usually need a degree from a specific school with a specific degree (i.e., public admin from George Washington, MBA from Georgetown). You should also look at the career building programs offered by graduate schools. Some provide excellent networking opportunities, internships, etc. that will give you some visibility before graduating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 If I am reading that graph correctly are they expecting employment to drop even further in the IT field? It looks like IT may plummet further according to their statistics? Education Bouble? That's crazy talk. You can never go wrong with education. But remember education is the foundation, it's not what makes you valuable, anymore. What makes you valuable is (1) experience, and (2) certifications..With industry changing so fast, the traditional 4 year degrees or 2 year master programs just can't keep up. Those things still look great on resumes and are ecensial for getting through the glass ceilings you will encounter after you career progresses. But what is going to make you employable in this tough marketplace isn't another degree. If you want to be an analyst, I would go out and get a certification in ITIL (Unformation Technology Infrastructure Library). It's process lifecycle stuff, Industry is laping it up with a spoon. Can't get enough of it. It's the latest buz word for process consultants. The foundation exam is pretty simple to get. Get a good book over at Amazon, and study for a few days... it's a 40 question multiple choice exam. It's tough and might take you a few attempts to pass, but it's easier than a graduate degree. After then you can put ITIL on your resume and it will give you some play, I would also take the four follow on certifications. They are six question multiple choice exames and you've got 90 minutes to complete them. Sounds simple, but you've also got to take a class to qualify for each exam. The classes are a little expensive, but all four should take you all together a month, tops. If you want to go Information systems, I'd pick a few Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, or Sun Java certifications depending upon what I were interested in. Get a few of them on your resume. You'll get a job..... Just after you get that job, keep plugging away on the certifications. Cause that's will allow you to keep getting better and better jobs. When you get to be 30-33, then I would go back and get an MBA, only make sure it's from a top 20 school, cause the others just aren't nearly as helpful. If I were you I looked at some of those certs, like MSFT, oracle, cisco, etc. But I am hearing most people do not pass those tests? Also, in order to get a ITIL, does that require some knowledge in IT? I don't know exactly what your work situation is now, but my advice to you, find some way to get into the field you may be interested in for a year or so. If you'd be going back to school anyway, why not take an internship for a year? Or volunteer somewhere? You can also take a class or two while you're interning/volunteering to see if going back to school really interests you. It's October now, if you can find something for the next year or so, that will give you the perfect amount of time to research schools and programs and apply next admissions cycle. I looked at internships, however most required that I be in school full time. Also, what did you do in the federal government and what experience did you need to get that job? I don't think going back to school is as much of a no-brainer as others in this thread suggest. I tend to agree that it is a smart option, but you should first become more specific with what you want and make sure that the investment is necessary. You mentioned that you might like analytical work in the accounting/finance field. If so, you can probably land yourself a GS job with the Navy, for example, without a masters. Regardless, you should ensure you get a degree that is a bridge towards your career, and not necessarily just for the credentials.I suggest you call HR professionals from organizations that you could see yourself working for, and ask them for their advice. For example, if you want to work for Deloitte, you usually need a degree from a specific school with a specific degree (i.e., public admin from George Washington, MBA from Georgetown). You should also look at the career building programs offered by graduate schools. Some provide excellent networking opportunities, internships, etc. that will give you some visibility before graduating. I am looking at some MPA programs. The problem with the government now, is its getting flooded with applicants. There was a front page article on USA today talking about how many people are applying for government jobs. Apparently, 7 million people applied for jobs with feds last year, by June of this year the feds surpassed 7 million applicants. The feds are on pace to receive anywhere from 14-20 million applicants. I don’t think I have much of a shot with the experience I have. Thanks everyone for the advice! I like what I am reading, it's giving me more things to chew on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 If I am reading that graph correctly are they expecting employment to drop even further in the IT field? It looks like IT may plummet further according to their statistics? Just current employment statistics. Though you might want to ask around the industry about prospects, just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Go back for nursing, or some other field in medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Mainly the ASQ certs, but those are pretty specific to my role at work. The Six Sigma Black belt cert was by far the most beneficial in terms of pay scale though. I'm really thinking about taking Six Sigma training. I have a BS in Business Admin with a concentration in Management. What would you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloppyOneXXVI Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well, since your BA is in criminology, maybe you'll like the Intelligence Analysis program at UMD School of Public Policy. http://www.publicpolicy.umd.edu/IntelligenceStudies/certificate/ I'm currently enrolled in it, and it's pretty awesome. It's only one day a week, so you can have a full time job (like myself) and still get extra education. If you have any questions let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well, since your BA is in criminology, maybe you'll like the Intelligence Analysis program at UMD School of Public Policy.http://www.publicpolicy.umd.edu/IntelligenceStudies/certificate/ I'm currently enrolled in it, and it's pretty awesome. It's only one day a week, so you can have a full time job (like myself) and still get extra education. If you have any questions let me know. I am reading the website now. Looks like an interesting program. I am sending a PM your way now. -Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloppyOneXXVI Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I am reading the website now. Looks like an interesting program. I am sending a PM your way now.-Grant I replied, if you have any other questions let me know. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I looked at some of those certs, like MSFT, oracle, cisco, etc. But I am hearing most people do not pass those tests? That's untrue. there are classroom courses, online courses, or books; all of which are proven ways to pass most of those exams. Especially at the beginning level. You will have to apply yourself for a few days, maybe even a week or two; but all those certifications are very very attainable, for somebody with little to no experience who knows how to study or is willing to apply themselves. I would go so far as to say most folks who get Microsoft certified have little or no experience. It's the entire reason they get certified. Old Crusty folks don't bother. Also, in order to get a ITIL, does that require some knowledge in IT? No, ITIL is like an ISO 20,000 process for dummies system. It's not about technology. It's about the business process which support service delivery. How do you organize your business to best deliever value to the customer. Where do put your resources, how folks communicate with each other, what should they be doing, if something goes wrong, how should you react... That kind of thing. Like I said, the first exam is 90 minutes, 40 multiple choice questions and you don't have to have taken any coarse. All you have to do is read a book to get it. It's the hottest process system right now in the Government and commecial world. Read a little about it. If you wanted to do business analysis or process work the ITIL certification would be very helpful. Id start with foundations but I would try to get the expert certification, cause the follow on certifications after foundation are easy, but require a class. Here is another one I forgot. PMP. It's a management certification. you will need more experience before you sit for it, but it's a great one to have today too. Keep that in mind after you have a few more years of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm really thinking about taking Six Sigma training. I have a BS in Business Admin with a concentration in Management. What would you recommend? Six Sigma is a few years out of date from being hot. I'd go ITIL. It's hotter right now and significantly easier to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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