Thinking Skins Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 http://thoughtsparadigm.blogspot.com/ What'd You Just Call Me? A nice guy is quickly growing to the top of things I don't want to be called. I feel like that places some kind of unnecessary burden onto my shoulders that implies that I'm going to do things that a 'typical' guy wouldn't. For instance, how can I break up with a girl and still be a nice guy? I can try all I want to explain it to her, to consider her feelings, to make it seem like its gonna be okay, but if she still likes me, she'll find a reason to hate me and no matter what I do, she'll explain that reason to herself and spread it reason as why I'm not a nice guy. Then my whole attempt at being nice will have been futile. There are other things that are assumed about nice guys that I just don't like. One is the assumption of being a pushover. I learned long ago (back when I found out I couldn't fight) that its much safer to just look like you can fight, or even better to have a mean mug on your face that makes people think "I could probably take him, but it wouldn't be an easy fight". In that way, I've managed to survive some dire situations in schools. But are nice guys allowed to look mean? Or is a nice guy also supposed to be the guy who comes home crying to his girl cause he got his ass kicked and then she can play some mommy role and tell him "baby it'll be alright". That being said though, I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm some kind of "nice guy", that its beyond my character to talk bad about somebody, or even criticize them. I mean, where I'm from we call it jon'in (its so hard to write down words I've only heard spoken) and we used to be able to go at it for hours at a time. Now, I'm in an academic setting and I understand that with this (as with most work environments), there's a lot more of an attempt to be politically correct and not hurt feelings. That I understand. But if you make a statement that deserves criticism, don't think I won't call you stupid just because you call me a nice guy. Not only that, but sometimes trash talk is just the proper etiquette. I mean, how much fun is a game of spades without some trash talk? How can I watch football with a Ravens fan or a Cowboys fan and not make jokes about them? And thats another thing - the whole need to 'discuss' things. I love a good conversation. Thats how I met most of my friends and how I meet new people. I believe there's an unappreciated art to a conversation that I try to enjoy. But that being said, some people do not enter a conversation to converse (how different of a world would we live in if conversate was a word?). Some people want to lecture, criticize, or spout an agenda. Having a conversation with some people is like trying to convince Rush Limbaugh to vote for Obama. Now the 'nice guy' in me says to show them the flaws in their logic and they'll eventually come around. But the 'typical guy' in me says to tell them to STFU. That may not win me many brownie points but I think it gets my point across that I don't want to hear that and I don't want them ruining an otherwise beautiful conversation. And the other thing about being a nice guy is that you're only the nice guy until there's an argument. From that point on, just like the girl you broke up with, you'll be that guy who has the wrong opinion on religion, or abortion, or gay rights, or whatever else you choose to disagree on. I think the term 'nice guy' is really just a new way of saying "I like you, but I don't 'like you' like you". Its that whole "we can be friends, but not boyfriend/girlfriend" talk all over again, but with more implied meaning and less actual statements. Everybody has their flaws and their ways of doing things that aren't so 'nice', but when we generalize and say a person is nice, its like we're asking them to put on a mask and not show that 'bad' side of them. Or maybe, a guy is called 'nice' because he actually tries to hide his 'bad' side. Either way, it doesn't work for me. So I no longer look forward to being called a 'nice guy'. (Now I know I'm gonna have friends jumping to the other extreme and thinking that I'm all of a sudden trying to be an artificial bad boy....like I'm Fabulous/Puffy/Ja Rule/etc. or something. I hope you find that as funny as I do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintHillSkinsFan Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think the term 'nice guy' is really just a new way of saying "I like you, but I don't 'like you' like you". It's nothing new. That's what it's always meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'd say the line about "Nice Guy = Pushover" was most accurate, but not just with physical fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 It's nothing new. That's what it's always meant. really? Well I see you've got a few years on me, or maybe I'm just late to realize this. Its always sounded funny to me, but now 'nice guy' is just on my list of things I don't want to be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintHillSkinsFan Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 really? Well I see you've got a few years on me, or maybe I'm just late to realize this. Its always sounded funny to me, but now 'nice guy' is just on my list of things I don't want to be called. Yeah, it's definitely not a positive. It's right up there with "you've got a great personality" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 nice guys are pushovers, they commit no injustice against others, but readily have injustice committed against themselves, thereby being unjust themselves instead of being nice, one should try to be good here are the prerequisites for being good: courage temperance generosity pride good temper honesty wittiness friendliness modesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 ya know what. after I thought about it a bit more and calmed down I don't think the situation's as simple as I just described. my blog points out a lot of the examples that basically equate being nice with being soft, but really, if thats what you are, then thats what you are. I'm just thinking more about this stuff and seeing the dating game as a game in itself, my main problem with the whole nice guy card is that sometimes you (I) feel like there's an added pressure that doesn't allow you to be yourself. For instance, some ladies say that they want to date a nice guy so you thrive for them to call you a nice guy - instead of just being natural around them and letting it flow from that. Prosperity, you name some interesting things (and yesterday instead of calling me nice a girl called me a "great guy"....I wasn't sure how I feel about it.) I mean honestly, what I want to be is a 'real guy'. I don't like to lie to tamper somebody's feelings, but I don't go out of my way to hurt people's feelings either. I just like the ability to say what I deem right at the time and I trust my common sense to let me know when I'm crossing the line or not. I think the problem with the nice guy persona is that it makes it harder to project and show other sides of you, particularly something like your angry side. Once you've shown off your angry side, you're no longer mr. Nice guy, you're something else altogether. But when I'm trying to live up to the 'nice guy' image, I'm more likely to bite my tongue or just swallow it and dismiss whats on my mind because it may hurt their feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 A perfect example on my mind is the whole 'spooning' position. That **** makes a guy's arm fall asleep. I remember going through this and saying to myself, "do I really feel like having this conversation/discussion/argument right now? I really just want to go to sleep. Can I do anything else to relieve the situation without having to say something?" And what would typically happen is that I'd figure out something to do after she's gone to sleep, but until then I just couldn't feel my arm. I think thats just a BS move though. So now I'm much more likely to just go with my gut and be like nah, lets try something else. Whatever happens as a result of that is whatever happens. If that's all it takes for her to conclude that I'm not a nice guy (sometimes thinking that it means that I don't want to cuddle, or that I don't like her), then I'm fine with that. But I think the label itself (and almost any label to tell you the truth) is an overvalued thing by a certain group of guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praise_gibbs Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Nothing really to add, and I think I already said this before, but I really enjoy your writing. I can relate to a lot of it which only adds to the entertaining part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 see i'm a nice guy -- cept i pay people to do my dick work for me. works out well people that are mean get to be mean people that are nice get to be nice. the key is if you're nice and frustrated cuz you need to be a dick. pay someone to do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 really? Well I see you've got a few years on me, or maybe I'm just late to realize this. Its always sounded funny to me, but now 'nice guy' is just on my list of things I don't want to be called. I'd have to agree with Mint. Last thing you wanted to be called by girls was a nice guy. That being said, the phrase does change in meaning based on context. I've been called a nice guy after taking certain people down a peg or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Yeah. As a lifelong nice guy I can tell you it's always meant "I like you, but I don't 'like you' like you". Always. I think the exact words the girl told me was "There are guys you want to **** and guys you want to marry. You're a guy you want to marry." That was way back in the 80s. I have no problem being 'nice.' But even I realize there's a fine line between 'nice' and 'schmuck.' One must always be careful not to cross it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 www.nomoremrniceguy.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 www.nomoremrniceguy.com sorry, but I can't respect anything endorced by Bill O'Reilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 Yeah. As a lifelong nice guy I can tell you it's always meant "I like you, but I don't 'like you' like you". Always.I think the exact words the girl told me was "There are guys you want to **** and guys you want to marry. You're a guy you want to marry." That was way back in the 80s. I have no problem being 'nice.' But even I realize there's a fine line between 'nice' and 'schmuck.' One must always be careful not to cross it. That second quote you give is very telling. I've heard (read) it sometime before. As far as the first one though, my (and probably a lot of other guys) experiences have told me just that, but I think it all boils down to who's saying what and what they mean by it. Sometimes it does mean the pushover stuff. But a rational me tells me that its not the act of being called a nice guy thats the bad thing, its actually being that pushover. It may be a thin line between the two, but the whole things about being able to be a nice guy and still have some freakin balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 That's simple. A 'nice guy' pushover is insecure. A man of honor is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Thank God my wife hates spooning. My left arm "weighs a ton" so my right arm never has to get all tingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 my blog points out a lot of the examples that basically equate being nice with being soft, but really, if thats what you are, then thats what you are. I'm just thinking more about this stuff and seeing the dating game as a game in itself, my main problem with the whole nice guy card is that sometimes you (I) feel like there's an added pressure that doesn't allow you to be yourself. For instance, some ladies say that they want to date a nice guy so you thrive for them to call you a nice guy - instead of just being natural around them and letting it flow from that. Prosperity, you name some interesting things (and yesterday instead of calling me nice a girl called me a "great guy"....I wasn't sure how I feel about it.) I mean honestly, what I want to be is a 'real guy'. I don't like to lie to tamper somebody's feelings, but I don't go out of my way to hurt people's feelings either. I just like the ability to say what I deem right at the time and I trust my common sense to let me know when I'm crossing the line or not. I think the problem with the nice guy persona is that it makes it harder to project and show other sides of you, particularly something like your angry side. Once you've shown off your angry side, you're no longer mr. Nice guy, you're something else altogether. But when I'm trying to live up to the 'nice guy' image, I'm more likely to bite my tongue or just swallow it and dismiss whats on my mind because it may hurt their feelings. I have had the same 'problem' (people mistaking niceness for weakness) as you before, a good way around it is to be polite and 'soft' as a nice guy, but NEVER, use those qualities as a cover. For example don't be soft to someone that is unjust to you. You have to to be able to turn off those characteristics at the right moment. politeness/softness/niceness are good characteristics, but they must be supplemented with especially two of the others I mentioned, courage and justice. I don't think showing an angry side is every really what you want to do... I mean there might be extreme instances where your anger could get out of control, but being firm and direct can project strength without letting the passions take hold. btw the list was a copy and paste I did of Aristotle's virtues... those virtues are means between two diffferent vices... for example an excess of courage is foolhardyness (not fearing what you are supposed to fear), and a deficiency in courage is cowardice (fearing what you are not supposed to fear). someone who is polite/soft/nice without being just (not suffering injustice, and not committing injustice) or courageous, is not a virtuous person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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