A Question about Blache and the Defense

[Oldfan]

That being said, Zorn and Wade Phillips are both on the bubble this year. I'd be curious what Wade could do as our DC. You would certainly see a lot more pressure. You might also see merriman come here to reunite with Wade.

When asked what went wrong in Gibbs Two, Joe Bugel recently said that the game had changed. NFL offenses today are built on the passing game. Wade Phillips and Greg Blache never got the memo. They still emphasize stopping the run first.

[theboomking]

When asked what went wrong in Gibbs Two, Joe Bugel recently said that the game had changed. NFL offenses today are built on the passing game. Wade Phillips and Greg Blache never got the memo. They still emphasize stopping the run first.

I disagree about Wade. He runs a great 3-4, and is great at getting pressure on the QB. Buffalo's D looked good under Wade. The Chargers' D looked great under Wade, with Merriman racking up the sacks. The Boy's don't have personnel nearly as good as ours on paper, but they produce a lot of sacks. Ask Ware.

[darrelgreenie]

I disagree about Wade. He runs a great 3-4, and is great at getting pressure on the QB. Buffalo's D looked good under Wade. The Chargers' D looked great under Wade, with Merriman racking up the sacks. The Boy's don't have personnel nearly as good as ours on paper, but they produce a lot of sacks. Ask Ware.

I've always felt that Wade was a good DC.

There defense picked up when Wade took over the defense.

[jtyler42]

Wade Phillips is a very, very, very, good DC...As a HC, not so much lol...

[Oldfan]

I disagree about Wade. He runs a great 3-4, and is great at getting pressure on the QB. Buffalo's D looked good under Wade. The Chargers' D looked great under Wade, with Merriman racking up the sacks. The Boy's don't have personnel nearly as good as ours on paper, but they produce a lot of sacks. Ask Ware.

After his team was blown out by the Patriots in 2007, Wade was seen on video telling us that his philosophy was to stop the run first, but (surprise!) Tom Brady beat him. Dumbest thing I've ever heard a coach say.

Now that we have the big DT to get the push up the middle and make the 4-3 work, I doubt that a switch would be a good idea.

[dckey]

First of all Blache is a good DC you have to realize that he put us in the position to make many turnovers but we couldn't hold on to the ball (Rogers). How many forced fumbles did we cause 16 that is one Fumble a game and last in the NFL. KC was 4th in Forced Fumbles and there scheme was not good. That is on the players to make those plays not the DC.

[darrelgreenie]

First of all Blache is a good DC you have to realize that he put us in the position to make many turnovers but we couldn't hold on to the ball (Rogers). How many forced fumbles did we cause 16 that is one Fumble a game and last in the NFL. KC was 4th in Forced Fumbles and there scheme was not good. That is on the players to make those plays not the DC.

When i talk about the need for TOs i'm not talking so much about fumbles becaue i think their kinda of flukey and unpredictable.

But, imo Ints happen when there is a good to great pass rush backed up by a zone defense. (I think its generally accepted that playing Zone creates greater chances for Ints then playing man, but that good man-to-man aids the pass rush) i digress

Blache doesn't scheme to get pressure.

He tries to create 1-on-1 match-ups and leaves the onus on the players to beat there man there is little to no guile in his scheme.

Unlike the Giants:

“That defense is amazing,” center Casey Rabach says. “They’ve got some really good football players on that side of the ball. They disguise their blitzes and they’ll bring corner blitzes that you have to recognize and that will be a big challenge for us.”

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Improvement_In_2009__Check_the_Scoreboard_49148.jsp

I'll agree with you that Blache is a good DC, but i don't think he puts his players in positions to make TOs, that not a bullet point on his resume.

I think the defense will be good, Orakpo and Haynesworth are gonna help get more sacks.

But, i think people and Synder are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think that a Blache lead defense is gonna suddenly be near the top of the NFL in TOs.

[darrelgreenie]

After his team was blown out by the Patriots in 2007, Wade was seen on video telling us that his philosophy was to stop the run first, but (surprise!) Tom Brady beat him. Dumbest thing I've ever heard a coach say.

He's the HC and ultimately he is responsible for everything that happens.

But, to be fair he wasn't calling the defense back then, he didn't start calling the defense until around the mid-point of last year.

[DGREENHULK]

not just landry , even the corners play too far back imo. Seemed like the entire pre-season they were giving 10 yards of space between the receiver. which didn't work out well

Agreed I'd like to see more press cov on the outside but that means Landry and Horton have to stay home...If Hall or Los gets beat early thats a long TD pass without Safety help over the top....

[Oldfan]

He's the HC and ultimately he is responsible for everything that happens.

But, to be fair he wasn't calling the defense back then, he didn't start calling the defense until around the mid-point of last year.

I'm not being unfair. The defensive philosophy, and its effect on the game plan, was Wade's responsibility. Defending the run as the first priority against the Patriots is slightly stupid, IMO.

[SilkyDiamonds]

When asked what went wrong in Gibbs Two, Joe Bugel recently said that the game had changed. NFL offenses today are built on the passing game. Wade Phillips and Greg Blache never got the memo. They still emphasize stopping the run first.

"I think football is a tough-man's game, it's an attrition game," Mr. Tomlin said on Tuesday. "You win by stopping the run and being able to run the ball effectively -- and doing the things winners do -- being a detailed-oriented football team, playing with great passion and executing."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07022/755830-66.stm#ixzz0Qd7NvnIE

I guess Mike Tomlin didnt get it either

[theboomking]

Not lobbying for Wade here, I hope we succeed with our current staff. I also think we have better defensive tackles for a 4-3 and don't really have any decent youg 3-4 DE's on the team other than Lorenzo alexander. Maybe Jarmon could swing the role. Our LB'ers are a bit small for 4-3 ILB I think, but we really need more LB'ers whether we stay in a 4-3 or a 3-4. Andre Carter also is a poor fit for a 3-4, as he proved in S.F, but he's on the older side anyway as well.

On second thought, Ngata doesn't play the nose for the Ravens, but DE. Maybe we could go Haynesworth and jarmon at DE, Montgomery or some other fat guy at nose tackle, Orakpo and Merriman [ ] at OLB, McIntosh and Fletcher in the middle. That wouldn't be so bad, but wouldn't be the best use of Haynesworth as a penetrator, assuming he hasn't fallen off from his level of play in Tennessee.

[TheShredder]

We will be all over QB's this year, and forcing many holding calls, false starts and turnovers. This defense is going to be fun to watch this season.

I agree with creating a lot of penalties... BO got held all preseason.

Also would expect that when you have to double team AH, that's going to create some matchups that will reap benefits. Look for twice as many sacks and INT's this year and most likely starting with game 1.

[darrelgreenie]

Blache already seems to be running more stunts with Rak than I have ever seen him run before. Rak's hit on troy Smith came on a stunt. I think part of Blache's vanilla schemes has been vanilla D-line personnel.

That being said, Zorn and Wade Phillips are both on the bubble this year. I'd be curious what Wade could do as our DC. You would certainly see a lot more pressure. You might also see merriman come here to reunite with Wade.

I think Wade is a good DC but i also think Blache is a good DC.

But, i think a great defense requires a great DC.

(LeBeau, Johnson(eagles), Marvin Lewis(Ravens), Rex Ryan (Ravens)

It appears that Synder is trying to build a great defense.

*(A defense that can win games, a defense that creates pressure and gets sacks, a defense that creates TOs especially interceptions)

I think that you can't have a great defense in the NFL without creative blitzing concepts and zone-blitz concepts because these concepts create pressure without always having to bring an extra man.

While i think that both Blache and Wade are good DCs i don't think they use enough of the creative blitzing and zoning to create TOs.

[darrelgreenie]

Look for twice as many sacks and INT's this year and most likely starting with game 1.

I can see more sacks, but i'm curious why you think there will be twice as many INT's?

[Oldfan]

"I think football is a tough-man's game, it's an attrition game," Mr. Tomlin said on Tuesday. "You win by stopping the run and being able to run the ball effectively -- and doing the things winners do -- being a detailed-oriented football team, playing with great passion and executing."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07022/755830-66.stm#ixzz0Qd7NvnIE

I guess Mike Tomlin didnt get it either

He apparently didn't. That's why Belichik does so well, so many coaches are slow to catch on. Bill's defensive approach is to put the emphasis on stopping what the opponent does best. Against the Vikings, he'll defend the run first. Against Peyton's Colts, he will defend the pass first. That just makes sense to me.

Over the past ten years, his Patriots and the Colts have won more games than any other because they do what most winning teams are doing now, they pass to get a lead and run to hold it.

[headexplode]

He apparently didn't. That's why Belichik does so well, so many coaches are slow to catch on. Bill's defensive approach is to put the emphasis on stopping what the opponent does best. Against the Vikings, he'll defend the run first. Against Peyton's Colts, he will defend the pass first. That just makes sense to me.

Over the past ten years, his Patriots and the Colts have won more games than any other because they do what most winning teams are doing now, they pass to get a lead and run to hold it.

Yeah, every defensive coordinator attempts to stop what the opposing team does best. Game plans change from week to week for precisely that reason. The whole "stop the run first" mantra is perhaps a general philosophy, but it is not a uniform game plan that a coordinator decides on week 1 and uses through week 17.

[theboomking]

I think Wade is a good DC but i also think Blache is a good DC.

But, i think a great defense requires a great DC.

(LeBeau, Johnson(eagles), Marvin Lewis(Ravens), Rex Ryan (Ravens)

It appears that Synder is trying to build a great defense.

*(A defense that can win games, a defense that creates pressure and gets sacks, a defense that creates TOs especially interceptions)

I think that you can't have a great defense in the NFL without creative blitzing concepts and zone-blitz concepts because these concepts create pressure without always having to bring an extra man.

While i think that both Blache and Wade are good DCs i don't think they use enough of the creative blitzing and zoning to create TOs.

I'm not sure that Marvin Lewis is a "great" DC. He didn't look that good with us, and Cinci's defense isn't that great. Our D looked better under Schottenheimer, especially with regards to the utilization of Lavar. Losing Marty might be what flushed Lavar's career. Lavar and Urlacher each played OLB coming into the league. I'm not sure how Urlacher's career would have gone if he'd moved to DE instead of MLB. It was a poor fit from the start, and a classic example of not utilizing the strengths of your personnel.

You left Monte Kiffin off of your DC list. Unfortunately, Spagnuolo, Lebeau, Rex Ryan, Kiffin, and especially Jim Johnson, won't be walking through our door to take that job.

Who's the DC in Tennessee? Anybody know much about the schemes he runs? I know it is a base 4-3, and they are usually ranked pretty highly.

[SittingBull]

The DC for the Titans last year and many years before that is Jim Shwartz who's now the coach of the Detroit Lions. As for the topic it's definitely on the players. Blache's 2001 Bears were #1 in points against, 48 sacks, 20 interceptions, 23 forced fumbles and 28 fumble recoveries. Blache didn't all of a sudden get stupid or timid. He knows what he's doing scheme wise and how to get the most out of his talent. If you watched last year you'd know our lack of sacks wasn't from a lack of trying.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not sure that Marvin Lewis is a "great" DC. He didn't look that good with us, and Cinci's defense isn't that great.

Cinci defense isn't bad, they're average and improving.

Marvin is the HC and ultimately is reponsible for anything that happens with them team, but he's not the DC.

I think he fell into the trap alot of former DC turned HC do, he took a step back and let his DCs do there jobs.

But,as evidenced by Lovie Smith and Wade Phillips re-claiming control of there defenses maybe they're starting to see the folly in the decision?

And BTW, Marvin was the DC with the Ravens from 1996-2001. He put together a pretty good defense when he was there including:

In 2000, the Ravens won Super Bowl XXXV thanks to a defense that allowed the fewest rushing yards (970) and the fewest points (165) in a 16-game season. "If ever a man proved his worth as a future head coach, Marvin Lewis did it with this complete domination of the Giants in their 16 possessions: Punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, interception, punt, interception, interception, punt, interception, punt, punt, punt, end of game", said Sports Illustrated writer Michael Silver after the Ravens 34-7 Super Bowl win.[1]

I'm not sure how Urlacher's career would have gone if he'd moved to DE instead of MLB. It was a poor fit from the start, and a classic example of not utilizing the strengths of your personnel.

Imo, a guy as talented as Urlacher would been good in any scheme.

And i think he's a beast at MLB his range in the Cover 2 scheme is sick!

And he's great from sideline to sideline and he's a good blitzer, he just need that DL to help him out some.

You left Monte Kiffin off of your DC list. Unfortunately, Spagnuolo, Lebeau, Rex Ryan, Kiffin, and especially Jim Johnson, won't be walking through our door to take that job.

Def props to Monte great, great coach now that son of his, lol

I wasn't saying that any of those coaches would be available.

Just that imo, Blache isn't on their level.

A great defense requires a great architect.

Imho, if Syder wants to build a dominating defense he needs to find the right DC to orchestrate it.

There has to be a young aggressive zone-blitzing defensive assistant coach waiting to get a chance as a DC.

(Keith Butler http://news.steelers.com/team/coach/49260/)

Who's the DC in Tennessee? Anybody know much about the schemes he runs? I know it is a base 4-3, and they are usually ranked pretty highly.

The DC now is Chuck Cecil, before it was Schwartz currently the HC of the Lions.

I watched a few Titans games and i don't recall them blitzing much.

Off the top of my head, i recall there defense this way:

Cover 2 Man-under:

o A rotation of DL that stunt and attack no reading or reacting attack!

o not alot of blitzing, little to no zone-blitzing

o Corners locked up man-to-man

o 2 deep safeties

[RandyHolt]

I think most fumbles can be expected from a QB. He handles the ball the most. We prefer to focus on stopping the run more than getting a pass rush. Our blitzes are generic and ineffective. We need to get a hand on the QB before we can expect to force fumbles.

Truth be told even when losing, you dont see our players trying to rip the ball free, not even in gang tackles when it is safe to try.

Blache runs a low key but effective scheme. His defense does not win games outright, instead he always tries to give the O a chance to win the game. He needs to help out the team by being more aggressive when we struggle to score to take the next step.

[21forlyfe]

He is too Arrogrant!! i hope he gets a head coaching job..so arrogrant he needed the title of DC,when he really was a Dline coach..SMFH Jerry Gray can replace him today!!

[Drop]

Blache definitley needs to press more. If we continue to give the receivers 10 yards between them and the corners, they're going to burn us all day. Landry plays WAY too deep, so much so that he can't regularly make any big plays.

We just need to press more and man up a little bit more and i think you'd see us make big plays regularly on defense. we have a solid D, but we're lacking the big plays that become turnovers. man up and press a little more, and i definitley think we have the talent to correct that.

[darrelgreenie]

Blache definitley needs to press more. If we continue to give the receivers 10 yards between them and the corners, they're going to burn us all day.

I agree that Blache should press more, but i think the reason he doesn't press is to prevent teams from burning us.

But, it does allow teams to dink and slant us to death.

(Bend but don't break)

Landry plays WAY too deep, so much so that he can't regularly make any big plays.

I don't think Landry plays too deep, its part of his role in preventing the deepball as a Center Field Safety.

Ed Reed for example plays just as deep as Landry in a similiar role, the difference is Ed's experience and ability to read offenses and know or guess where the ball is going.

Landry might get there, but it doesn't happen overnight.

We just need to press more and man up a little bit more and i think you'd see us make big plays regularly on defense. we have a solid D, but we're lacking the big plays that become turnovers. man up and press a little more, and i definitley think we have the talent to correct that.

I would love to see us press more, but it think the interceptions increase turnovers from playing more zone.

If we can get a good pass rush up front from the front 4 then our secondary can sit in different zones (Cover 2/Cover 7 etc) that allow the secondary to break downhill on the ball.

[SkinsFTW]

Blache definitely is no Richie Pettibone. We're not gonna see 30+ turnovers every year from less than stellar defensive talent. We have way more talent on D than the 83 or 91 teams.