A Question about Blache and the Defense

[21forlyfe]

Perhaps you don't remember but Moss was in the endzone before Hall. Actually Hall was behind Moss and trying to reach around to swat the ball out. If Hall had stayed ahead of Moss at all times then he would have to had to come up and make a play on the ball but he was back behind Moss.

We both saw the same game I just watched the replay more.

What game were you watching?...I have it recorded....didn't see what you saw

[21forlyfe]

Static on defense, static on offense. Sigh.

NE likes playing us since Blache is so predictable. Recent qoute from Pats coach.

IF we keep Wynn Before Jackson...then he should be fired now!! if we cut wilson or Jackson....then i willstart to pray for Blache to get a head coaching job somewhere:mad:

[homerjones]

What game were you watching?...I have it recorded....didn't see what you saw

what did you see because I just watched it again. There is nothing to question here partner. Hall fell on top of Moss's back therefore Hall was trailing Moss because he rode up on him from BEHIND. Moss was the first one in the endzone and Hall was not coming up from the endzone to make the play he was covering him slightly from BEHIND as I keep saying.

[RandyHolt]

We give the slant and play off, they take the slant. We play the run, they summon 4 tackles. For as great as our defense is, it only led us to 7 wins last year. OCs just need to be patient and they can get 14 on us every game. Team that are merciless, can rack up 40.

Has anyone seen the % of three and out leaders in the league. We had the most 3 and outs but suspect with our feeble offense, they led the league in chances.

[21forlyfe]

what did you see because I just watched it again. There is nothing to question here partner. Hall fell on top of Moss's back therefore Hall was trailing Moss because he rode up on him from BEHIND. Moss was the first one in the endzone and Hall was not coming up from the endzone to make the play he was covering him slightly from BEHIND as I keep saying.

20/20 vision?

[darrelgreenie]

I like the depth at which Landry plays, its about him being able to recognize and have instinct to where a QB, or a play may be going, and that comes with experience, I say he puts it together this year and you will come to love Landry playing that deep middle.

...Landry has got to study offenses and formations more so he can react quicker to plays and begin to make plays on the ball.

Landry has athletic ability that other FS/SS dream of but i wonder if he has the dedication to film study of an Ed Reed or the coaching of a Dick LeBeau to speed up the develop into leap that next level.

Hopefully it will come with experience like you say Silky and i'll watching and cheering for him.

RIP i took ST21 until his 3rd year to become a ballhawk.

What's disturbing is we have POOR blitzers, outside of Landry ( I know a conundrum because I want him deep) If ANYTHING I'd like to see Blache coach up the LB's and DB's on blitzing angles, and timing. A good blitzer is alot like a running back, running to where the play is "blocked" (stunts and games by DL), being instinctual, and fighting through.

I've been saying the same thing for a looong time here...It's not the scheme. We probably have had the poorest group of blitzing LB's in the league for awhile. It's like they weren't blitzing to get to the QB, but that they were blitzing right into blocks, and once they were blocked they stayed blocked. I think with Orakpo, and Wilson in the fold at LB we will see LB blitzes that actually get to the QB...

I remember from the Steelers game there was a stat that said Blache sent 5 or more rusher more then anyone in the league.

Somethings gotta be wrong if you blitz that much yet only finish with 22(?) sacks.

I agree that most of our LBs aren't the best 1-on-1 pass rushers, but Blache kept calling the same blitzes over and over again.

Blaches blitzes are gonna be more effective this year because Orakpo, who can lift up an OL with his strength, will rush instead of Washington and Blades.

Blache blitzes 5 and often doesn't get sacks a zone-blitz or line stunt/game often gets sacks without actually sending an extra man.

Zone blitzes/stunts attack the pass protection scheme itself not just the player, the split second of hesitation is often ebough for a pass rusher to gain the upper hand.

A good zone blitz often tricks 2 lineman into blocking the same person or tricks a lineman into not blocking anyone while another lineman is trying to block 2.

It forces the QB to hold the ball a little longer because the 'hot read' passing lane is occupied by a 300 lbs DT or 250 lbs LB.

Hence that general is skilful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skilful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.

Sun Tzu

-JT did i miss anything in my breakdown of our D from the OP?

[homerjones]

We give the slant and play off, they take the slant. We play the run, they summon 4 tackles. For as great as our defense is, it only led us to 7 wins last year. OCs just need to be patient and they can get 14 on us every game. Team that are merciless, can rack up 40.

Has anyone seen the % of three and out leaders in the league. We had the most 3 and outs but suspect with our feeble offense, they led the league in chances.

thank you for being on board the realists here. and here is another point: with all the time our defense spent on the field, we STILL couldn't get sacks.

We even had the lead in the St Louis game. with such a great defense how did we lose that game?

[Rhodus333]

Blache's defense, to me, always seems to rely too much on individual ability. Especially in the secondary, the "bend don't break" approach more often than not comes across as "let the other team catch the ball, then close in on them and stop the yards after the catch". with our starters, there's tons of potential for stops and pickoffs, but once you get past our first string we look WEAK because the guys on our roster simply don't have the skills to get where they need to go to do anything more than prevent a 9 yard pass turn into a first down.

PS I love Orakpo, but i'm really excited to see what Chris Wilson can do this season. I feel like he's gonna fly under alot of team's radars and have chances to make a TON of plays

[darrelgreenie]

The drawback of press coverage is that if the blitz or the four man front fails to do it's job then the corners more often than not are completely screwed.

We'll see more press coverage with Haynesworth and Orakpo wreaking havoc (hopefully).

I can't wait for Rogers to come back healthy he was a beast at press coverage in the 1st part of the season.

[21forlyfe]

Jackson got cut...we will still get no pressure this season...i guessing 29 sasks this season...We need A REAL GM ...Blache,Vinny,ect. dont know what the hell they are doing...they are 15 steps behind what the rest of the NFl is doing..SMFH just when you taught they got it

[Mickalino]

my only complaint is that they stick landry so far back, its impossible for him to regularly make big plays.

That's his primary job in his position, to play centerfield, and PREVENT big plays from the offense, and necessarily MAKE THEM on defense.

Would you rather him play up close, and have the offense beat us deep for a long TD, because there's no Landry back there to stop the long ball, or back up a corner who got beat ?

[theboomking]

I'm not sure Blache is as much a scheme guy as a hard nosed old school DC. I'm not much for his blitz scheme or lack of stunts etc, but our stunts already look better this year. Maybe our blitz package will as well, with Orakpo at SAM. I'm sure we haven't shown much ow that blitz package yet.

Who would you guys want as DC if Blache isn't here next year? We would need a guy that runs a 4-3. It'd be nice if the Rams were so horrid that Spagnuolo got cut loose, but I think they could be 0-16 and Spags would get a second season.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not sure Blache is as much a scheme guy as a hard nosed old school DC. I'm not much for his blitz scheme or lack of stunts etc, but our stunts already look better this year. Maybe our blitz package will as well, with Orakpo at SAM. I'm sure we haven't shown much ow that blitz package yet.

Who would you guys want as DC if Blache isn't here next year? We would need a guy that runs a 4-3. It'd be nice if the Rams were so horrid that Spagnuolo got cut loose, but I think they could be 0-16 and Spags would get a second season.

I would give Coach Gray the DC title if he's not a HC somewhere and encourage him to hire a proven veteran coach to the staff as a postion coach like Ted Cottrell, Jim Haslett, Ray Rhodes.

or

I would look for a young, successful and experienced position coach from a team that gets alot of sacks and turnovers from a zone-blitz heavy or stunt heavy team.

I would look at someone from the Steelers staff like Keith Butler http://news.steelers.com/team/coach/49260/

As much as i whine about Blache's schemes they're aren't many DCs that would be available that i would want over him.

Only re-treads like come Dick Jauron(i think he's gonna get the axe), Remeo Crennell and Rod Marinelli but i'm not sure these guys would much different then Blache.

[NVskinsfan]

Team needs the BALTIMORE/Pittsburgh Defensive fire....not playing 10 yards off the line on a 3rd and 7....:doh:

Agressive and create some turnovers already!!!

[NVskinsfan]

Skins "D" better step up, becuase the "O" is a big ???

[21forlyfe]

Team needs the BALTIMORE/Pittsburgh Defensive fire....not playing 10 yards off the line on a 3rd and 7....:doh:

Agressive and create some turnovers already!!!

no fire with Wynn add the 30+yearold de's:laugh::laugh:

[darrelgreenie]

Team needs the BALTIMORE/Pittsburgh Defensive fire....not playing 10 yards off the line on a 3rd and 7....:doh:

Agressive and create some turnovers already!!!

You're right we do need to create turnovers.

But i don't think the cushion is a major issue, the Ravens and the Steelers sometimes play off coverage but they cause confusion and bring pressure up front.

The Steelers Cover 3 defense with off covergae is much better then ours and the Ravens multiple blitzes and fronts bring pressure and more importantly cause confusion for the OL and QB that our schemes don't.

The QB can't automatically throw a slant the hot read because there might be a defender waiting in a fire-zone.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos...Under-pressure

[Ashburn Dave]

blache better find a way to get the qb on the ground alot more this year or he needs to go. He believes in the bend dont break bs.

+1

[NattyLight]

It's really just his second year with the talent, and less than that with the number 1, shut down CB. I'm not sure if it's maximized now, although I do believe he knows what the hell he's doing most of the time. Zorn, eh, not so much. Greg Blache for head coach!

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not sure if it's maximized now, although I do believe he knows what the hell he's doing most of the time.

If the talent isn't maximized now, then how can get there running the same schemes?

[21forlyfe]

I would give Coach Gray the DC title if he's not a HC somewhere and encourage him to hire a proven veteran coach to the staff as a postion coach like Ted Cottrell, Jim Haslett, Ray Rhodes.

or

I would look for a young, successful and experienced position coach from a team that gets alot of sacks and turnovers from a zone-blitz heavy or stunt heavy team.

I would look at someone from the Steelers staff like Keith Butler http://news.steelers.com/team/coach/49260/

As much as i whine about Blache's schemes they're aren't many DCs that would be available that i would want over him.

Only re-treads like come Dick Jauron(i think he's gonna get the axe), Remeo Crennell and Rod Marinelli but i'm not sure these guys would much different then Blache.

Yup Gray was a DC and had the #2 ranked DEFENSE in Buff

[JaxJoe]

We give the slant and play off, they take the slant. We play the run, they summon 4 tackles. For as great as our defense is, it only led us to 7 wins last year. OCs just need to be patient and they can get 14 on us every game. Team that are merciless, can rack up 40.

Has anyone seen the % of three and out leaders in the league. We had the most 3 and outs but suspect with our feeble offense, they led the league in chances.

Well said.

Our D suffers not so much from a lack of talent or coaching decisions. The 3 & outs support that our coaching is talented (or lucky!). It's our offense's lack of production (points, that is, not TOP) that keep the games too tight and we give up that 4th qtr score for the loss. NE Pats are a great example of a mediocre defense (raw talent) coupled with a phenomenal offense.

[DaGhost]

Well said.

Our D suffers not so much from a lack of talent or coaching decisions. The 3 & outs support that our coaching is talented (or lucky!). It's our offense's lack of production (points, that is, not TOP) that keep the games too tight and we give up that 4th qtr score for the loss. NE Pats are a great example of a mediocre defense (raw talent) coupled with a phenomenal offense.

let's hope that changes this year... when was the last time you saw this team take so many shots downfield as campbell did this preseason?

[Xero21]

Landry playing deep is something I like. It keeps teams from throwing the ball deep on us, and let's Landry see everything. Ever since we started playing the FS 30 yards back, I think we've had 2 plays go for over 40 yards on our D. One was a screen in the CIN game last year, and the other was when Doughty got beat against the Cards.

Against the Pats, we brought Landry up so that he was about 10 yards off the LoS, and the Pats sent Randy Moss deep into the endzone and he burned us. The one time we brought Landry up, the other team knew what to do and we paid for it.

However, because the corners play off coverage a lot of plays, the short passes are always there. I think the corners, even if they don't play press coverage, should probably move up to maybe a 5 yard cushion at least.

As for blitzing, I don't see why we do. We are simply not effective at it.

When our LB's/S's blitz, it seems like once they get to the LoS, they just get caught up in the trenches with the lineman and it hardly pressures the QB extra. It's like all it does is take away players that should be back covering, because there isn't any extra pressure on the QB. Just seems to hurt our D more than help.

[darrelgreenie]

Well said.

Our D suffers not so much from a lack of talent or coaching decisions. The 3 & outs support that our coaching is talented (or lucky!). It's our offense's lack of production (points, that is, not TOP) that keep the games too tight and we give up that 4th qtr score for the loss. NE Pats are a great example of a mediocre defense (raw talent) coupled with a phenomenal offense.

You make a good point, but i think thats a different arguement.

A good offense can aid a defense in several ways.

I guess you're saying that given the offense you think Blache's schemes's get the max production i.e. sacks and turnovers from the given talent?