Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 He got credit.He set a record going 22 for 22 for 22 yards only to lose that record a week later And that has nothing at all to do with pass placement. Lets not forget he was the best at placing the ball out of bounds to avoid sacks and int's. :evilg: And this proves my earlier point lol...thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 You know zero about football outsiders, do you? lol I know a heck of a lot more about the game than they do! Any clown who actually makes a case for JC being extremely accurate is someone who knows absolutly nothing about the game of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Somethings just speak for themselves EXCELLENT POST! :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I know a heck of a lot more about the game than they do!Any clown who actually makes a case for JC being extremely accurate is someone who knows absolutly nothing about the game of football. How can anyone deny the logic in that sizzling rebuttal? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Murf, I would agree with your conclusion that the receivers failed JC only if the FO's stats showed that they dropped more passes in the second half of the season when the team went 2-6 than in the first half when the team went 6-2. Otherwise, it just shows that JC was inaccurate in the second half of the season when he completed 59% of his passes and threw 6 interceptions. As for the o-line, pass protection was suspect even in the first half of the season. They gave up 16 sacks in the first 8 games. In the second half of the season they gave up 22 sacks. The o-line gave up 7 sacks in the Pittsburgh game and only 15 after that in the last 7 games. Not much of a difference from the first half. So I don't think the o-line failed JC...only during the Pittsburgh game.:doh: My :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Sacks are only a part of a poor pass protection. With 9 minutes to go in the Steelers game, JC had been sacked 5 times, hurried 3 times and hit 6 times. I remember reading in the Ravens game that JC was hurried and/or hit 7 or 8 times. Even before the Ravens game, Zorn told JC to brace for a physical beating. Does that sound like a coach who has any confidence in his o-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would argue that it does prove he is good at reading it. It's not a granular stat like completion %, it's a summary stat like QB efficiency. However, I would certainly be open to hearing how that that stat does not prove he could read a defense if his success was a result of luck (e.g. throwing a ball blindly up for grabs) or other factors outside of his control that lead to that success.-No we don't. Perhaps he could have been better. We do know that he was the best in the NFC against the zone blitz though. And we know that the zone blitz can be deadly QBs that can't read defenses. That Campbell did very well against the zone blitz certainly speaks in favor of him. [EDITED FOR SPACE] -However, I do recognize he still has his bad passes/reads/etc. But all other NFL QBs do also. I know so many see a bad pass and think McNabb would never throw that bad pass or Brady would never throw that bad pass, but watching enough full games to see QBs like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady stare down a receiver and throw an INT enough times gives you some perspective. Only watching highlights gives one some distorted perception of what a good NFL QB should look like. Very good post bobzmuda. When I say things like "can't" I typically mean "is not good at" or "struggles with". For instance I've often said "Carlos Rogers can't catch." I think our issue was more about semantics than anything, so I'll back off it now. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 You do know that Brady only had one 4,000 yard season prior to 2007, right? You do realize that the Pats had one of the top scoring defenses during their superbowl years, right? You do realize that Brady threw for less than 3,000 yards during their 2001 SB win, right? The guy said he would like to see how Tom Brady would look without such a good cast. The answer is he looked like a 3-time Super Bowl winner, and like one of the best QBs in the NFL. I am not going to get into a debate about the worthiness of a future first-ballot Hall of Famer, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The guy said he would like to see how Tom Brady would look without such a good cast. The answer is he looked like a 3-time Super Bowl winner, and like one of the best QBs in the NFL. I am not going to get into a debate about the worthiness of a future first-ballot Hall of Famer, sorry. I thought Brady still had a better line but yeah... no point in this comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Here is a stat I am curious to find How "better" by whatever metric is a QB the quicker he releases the ball I.E is a QB who gets rid of the ball in less then 3 seconds from the snap "better" (by whatever measure) then a QB who gets rid of it after 3 seconds My theory is, that the better QBs get rid of the ball quicker, i.e in under 3 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Here is a stat I am curious to findHow "better" by whatever metric is a QB the quicker he releases the ball I.E is a QB who gets rid of the ball in less then 3 seconds from the snap "better" (by whatever measure) then a QB who gets rid of it after 3 seconds My theory is, that the better QBs get rid of the ball quicker, i.e in under 3 seconds Interesting thought, but it would probably be dependent on WRs getting open, the play called (screen, short hook, etc.) and time given by oLine (rushed throws). I think maybe the whole time of his release (from start of throwing motion to release) could be a better measure but I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008. -Curious but what was the second most drops? Just how much discrepancy was there between teams statistically 2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=2007&range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 -You seem to have a lot of faith in your source, but I found different #'s... And it also seems that a lot of good #1 receivers in this league are the guys that drop the most passes, obviously because they get the most balls thrown there way 3. Running back Clinton Portis only had six drops. Compared to Moss and Randle El that seems okay, but he was actually third in the league in percentage of dropped passes (17 percent). -I'm sorry but Campbell has to take some heat here, he throws one of the worst RB screens I have ever seen its flat and fast... Which makes him a lot better at the WR/TE screens we were running last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The guy said he would like to see how Tom Brady would look without such a good cast. The answer is he looked like a 3-time Super Bowl winner, and like one of the best QBs in the NFL. I am not going to get into a debate about the worthiness of a future first-ballot Hall of Famer, sorry. -You just can't take some people in here seriously... They try so hard to prove there point that Campbell "isnt that bad" that they'll try and down play all greats QB's of our time (Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning) the list goes on... Its pretty absurd, Brady is arguably the best QB of all time... but its all been his supporting cast, because we've all seen how well Patriot players in that offense have played after there time with the Pats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shemp nixon Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Mistertim, did you watch the games, did you think you were watching the eighth most accurate QB. Everyone in the JCAC can pounce on these stats, that is fine. The thing is, applying mathematics after the fact does not change what happened on the field. It is a form of revisionist history, and yes I think it is crap. It has nothing to do with camera angles my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Interesting thought, but it would probably be dependent on WRs getting open, the play called (screen, short hook, etc.) and time given by oLine (rushed throws).I think maybe the whole time of his release (from start of throwing motion to release) could be a better measure but I don't know. I think part of it has to do with the QB recognizing the defense at the LOS pre-snap If he correctly identifies what the D is doing, makes the right adjustment, the ball should be out of his hand VERY QUICK to a very open WR. Look how quickly Brady gets rid of the ball to a wide open WR. He doesn't stand back in the pocket for very long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I think part of it has to do with the QB recognizing the defense at the LOS pre-snapIf he correctly identifies what the D is doing, makes the right adjustment, the ball should be out of his hand VERY QUICK to a very open WR. Look how quickly Brady gets rid of the ball to a wide open WR. He doesn't stand back in the pocket for very long True it's part of it, but you would agree that another part of it is knowing that the right route is going to be run, setting up a throwing lane, etc. I'd agree that you want the QB to get it out quick most often but I'm not sure that it's indicative of QB play. All that to say there are a whole gambit of things we can look at but if there were a smoking gun the patriots would have it and killed any witnesses. (this aint it or we'd be getting strangled by belicheat himself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Mistertim, did you watch the games, did you think you were watching the eighth most accurate QB. Everyone in the JCAC can pounce on these stats, that is fine. The thing is, applying mathematics after the fact does not change what happened on the field. It is a form of revisionist history, and yes I think it is crap. It has nothing to do with camera angles my friend. ExtremeSkins: Where the facts don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexx1240 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 This is prolly THE best article i've evr read on JC!! He will succeed and prove all the doubters wrong...as for rite now all i can say is Wait n See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erock353 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 "His offensive line failed him. His receivers failed him. And at the end of the day, fans (and even his own front office) figured it was easier to blame Campbell than to admit there are much larger problems with Washington’s offense. It makes sense though. It’s easier (and cheaper) to replace one guy rather than half the offense – even if he’s not the problem." This pretty much hits it on the head. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevilhimself Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 ExtremeSkins: Where the facts don't matter. No the facts apparently don't matter . Only subjective oppinion matters apparently . Thing is when I watched Campbell I saw a lot of drops from receivers hands ...sometimes they were not the most perfect throws but also not the most demanding of recpetions either .. Are we saying our receivers are so crappy they nead picture perfect throws every time to allow them to make simple catches look simple ? Also another thing I saw which apparently was missed but the hang em and flog em brigade was the amount of pressure Campbell got on nearly every single drop back . Sometimes the defender would be past the OL before Campbell was on his third drop . Some of the pressure came because he held the ball too long ....but are we saying the OL is so old and crappy it needs a QB who has such a quick release he can get the ball 50 yards down the field before his third step on a three step drop . The facts are presented to you in a nice INDEPENDENT way in the football outsiders almanac, something that has been published year after year and because the facts do not meet with your preconcieved ideas then they must be wrong ... In other news the world is not apparently flat .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBLUFAN Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 So what you're saying is...With elite offensive line, elite wide receivers, and an elite running back, Jason Campbell could be good. Not great, but good. Sweet... Dude, way to make 15 cents out of a dollar.... Fans only please! HAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Interesting article from an unbiased source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsnut18231977 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I must say that was some sound information about Campbell or at nothing else put things into perspective. I have been a supporter of Campbell for quite some time even through his Auburn years. I have to say I am fairly excited for the first game against the Giants. Not just because its the first game but this game in of itself will be a true measuring stick as to where we REALLY stand as a progression and a competitor. I for one live in NY and all my friends are Giants fans. Twice a year I will have all of them over to watch the game on my 57" HDTV and surround sound system. I will not forget my anticipation of the first snap and what kind of team we were gonna see. I watched in horror as Campbell looked somewhat stagnant and lost trying to find his groove in another system against the reigning Super Bowl champions. With all my Giant friends around me razzing me about what the heck he was doing and "its gonna be a long season" crap, I threw them all out at half-time and curse them forever. I realized the cycle was continueing. Good offense one year great defense another year and never getting all together in the same season. Things did get better though last year....Not as sucessful as I wanted and ending on a bad note but I truley felt Campbell was a QB we could build around no matter who the coach was. I blogged here awhile ago about Campbell's potential traits and matched some of them up against the greats of our team and others. I recieved mixed views based on which camp people where in. In the end though it was wishful thinking on my behalf due in part to the lack of production on Campbell's behalf. The O-line will obviously be the X-factor this season. But I must say I think we are going to see better results from our recieving corp. this year. So as I sit in front of the TV this year in a dejavu state at 4pm on September 13th with all the Giants fans around I feel one thing will be true.... LOL This game as your Stats confirm won't be the same result as last year. Giants fans strap it on. For this is game 1 all here and accounted for. GET READY FOR A BUTTWUPPIN'!!!!! Or I will have to throw them all out again!! HAIL!!!!:gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroSweets05 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Is our o-line gonna be any better this year?? Where's the depth?? Shame on the front office for not addressing this in the offseason. We will be extremely upset when 17 signs with someone else next year and goes to the Pro Bowl... 17, you have our full support, screw the haters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 ExtremeSkins: Where the facts don't matter. From ALL sides, at differing times, in the on-going ES QB "wars." Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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