ACW Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gPTGhnfLEhZCIxoPy1LffHa4OJyAD98OI7MG0 WASHINGTON (AP) — A union official says he asked for protective vests for guards at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum two years ago, but they never got them.Guard Stephen T. Johns was shot to death Wednesday when an 88-year-old gunman opened fire in the museum. The gunman was critically injured but no one else was hurt. An official with the union that represents the guards says he pushed for protective vests after a man made threatening remarks to guards several years ago. Union district director Assane Faye says the company that employs the guards never issued the vests. Johns worked for Wackenhut Security, which says he was shot in the upper left torso. The company would say only that all officers were wearing appropriate equipment as specified in their contract. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Yeah, you hear things like that or that if they had spent half a million more on fire retardent on the World Trade Towers or a number of other things that seem obvious in foresight and hindsight. I don't know if the main reason for not getting the vests was cheapness as was the case with the girders of the World Trade Towers, but I guess the most amazing thing is that has taken this long for there to be an incident there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 All to often it seems, that the unwritten doctrine is: "nothing is a big deal until it's a big deal" People always seem to have to have a horrible tragedy before common sense, realistic, "we live in 2009" measures are put into place. I call it mass naivety, and a failure to accept the reality of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I have a different philosophy on these things. Every time there's a plane crash, there's an investigation. And, eventually, the report comes out that the plane crashed because of a failure of the dilithium phase inverter. And then people go through all of the records and the memos and the emails. And lo and behold! Some guy, some where, said that he wasn't happy with the design of the dilithium phase inverter. Forsooth! Proof that the crash would have been avoided if the Big Powers had listened to little guy! Problem is, you could pick any component of that airplane, and if you look hard enough, you will fins somebody who wanted to do it differently. It's guaranteed. Because the entire design of an airplane consists of tradeoffs. Every time something bad happens, it's always possible to find someone, somewhere, who will at least claim to have said "I told you so". (To the great delight of personal injury lawyers everywhere.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that's probably true... and maybe moreso for the Towers, I mean who'd have really thought some lunatic would ram a plane into it and set jet fuel ablaze at those kind of temps. On the other hand, I think most people who thought about it knew that at some point some crazy would attack the Holocaust Museum. I don't know if there are pros versus cons to wearing a vest (for example, are they so heavy that wearing them 5 days a week cause back problems?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that's probably true... and maybe moreso for the Towers, I mean who'd have really thought some lunatic would ram a plane into it and set jet fuel ablaze at those kind of temps. On the other hand, I think most people who thought about it knew that at some point some crazy would attack the Holocaust Museum.I don't know if there are pros versus cons to wearing a vest (for example, are they so heavy that wearing them 5 days a week cause back problems?) They're very lightweight these days, Burgold, even with a trauma plate (a thin piece of metal that fits in a pocket over your heart to provide extra protection.) Trust me, I've worked for the G4S side of Wackenhut for 4 years. Cost was the prohibiting factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that's probably true... and maybe moreso for the Towers, I mean who'd have really thought some lunatic would ram a plane into it and set jet fuel ablaze at those kind of temps. Actually, now that it's happened, the thought occurs to me that if those towers had suddenly been subjected to a sudden, sharp, lateral force, 100 stories above the ground, that I'm surprised that the things didn't just snap off at the base and fall over sideways. Seriously, who would have anticipated that happening, when they designed the things? And yeah, as to the fire loading, same thing. Can't really blame the designers for failing to ask the question "But what happens if some terrorist smuggles 50 tons of gasoline into floors 80 through 95, and sets them on fire, after using explosives to strip the sprayed-on insulation from the steel support beams?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUSkinsFan Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I agree that it is possible to find someone somewhere that can say "I said this would happen", but I think in an environment such as the holocaust museum where security is so tight it would only make sense to issue the security personnel there bullet-proof vests. I remember when I went there for a class field trip, the small amount of aluminum foil on a gum wrapper was enough to set the metal detector off. Since safety is such a concern the people tasked with protecting the museum should be given at least basic safety equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 They're very lightweight these days, Burgold, even with a trauma plate (a thin piece of metal that fits in a pocket over your heart to provide extra protection.)Trust me, I've worked for the G4S side of Wackenhut for 4 years. Cost was the prohibiting factor. Thanks. I thought that was probably the case, but wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Doesn't surprise me. Wackenhut=SUCKAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hh: G4s??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hh: G4s??? Group 4 Securicor, parent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanleys Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 If it really was that big of a concern, why didn't the union buy vests for the employees themselves? I find it absolutely disgusting that a union official would use a tragedy to score bargaining points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 odds of getting shot as a guard in the Holocaust museum? Not so great. Odds of getting shot in Iraq? A bit bigger. I say we get our troops the armor before giving it to security guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 What does one have to do with the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 What does one have to do with the other? Our troops are in need of vests. If we have vests to allocate, I know where I'd send them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Different pools of money. Somehow, I don't think the Defense Department funds the Smithsonian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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