Teller Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I've had some interesting debates the last few days with some colleagues at work about the future of the GOP. There were three basic takes. One said that the best solution to the party's current woes is to swing back hard right, use the usual hot-button issues to motivate the base, and drive forward without changing anything substanitive. Another said that the best solution was to realize that the country's values are changing, and to change with the times. While we might not have to accept all of those things generally considered "progressive," it would probably be to our advantage to be more forward-thinking on things like stem cell research; or alternatives to just deporting illegals and sealing the border. The third (me), had no freaking clue. On one hand, I think we probably do need to change with the times...a bit. On the other, we HAVE had a lot of success in the past, sticking to the party line and turning out the party base on election day. So what say you, ES? Hard right? Hang a left? Or something else all together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 BTW, the poll is public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 i think that just as we saw Regan era Democrats arise, we'll see Obama era Republicans. They'll be conservative on a majority of issues, but more relaxed on others. Some prime candidates that are likely to stick: - small gov't - low taxes - 2nd amendment (although some democrats have adopted this too) Some prime candidates to change: - gov't inclusion into personal lives - religion vs science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Palin 2012 That wil change friend #1's mind with the quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 How about defining core issues and actually working on them? Leave the being all things to all people to the Dems(they lie better:evilg:) Hey, it worked before...till they abandoned it. Playing by the other parties rules is a recipe for what we have...politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 The GOP will recover one way or another. Either the Dems will screw up royally and the voters will swing back right, or the Dems will succeed, the public will get complacent about the economic crisis, and people will start caring about social issues again. But whatever the case, these things tend to go in cycles. Right now it's the Dems on top. Sure, they're further ahead then they should be thanks to Bush dragging the GOP down, but it will all swing back around eventually. I do have to say that it would help if the loudest voices of conservatism would tone down their act a little. Five years ago I considered myself a down-the-middle moderate, who voted GOP in both the House and Senate elections. I very reluctantly voted for Obama, and I have great reservations about the amount of money he's throwing around. But listening to Limbaugh and Hannity makes me feel like a bleeding heart liberal. Conservatives need more shows like Grandy and Andy (630 AM morning show here in DC.) Thoughtful conservative shows that aren't afraid to discuss issues intelligently and honestly. Attack attack attack may be self-gratifying, but it accomplishes little more than making the other side defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 i think that just as we saw Regan era Democrats arise, we'll see Obama era Republicans. They'll be conservative on a majority of issues, but more relaxed on others. Some prime candidates that are likely to stick: - small gov't - low taxes - 2nd amendment (although some democrats have adopted this too) Some prime candidates to change: - gov't inclusion into personal lives - religion vs science I agree with you on some level, but at the same time, I think it was easier for Reagan democrats to cross-over than it would be for an Obama republican. (Course, I say that as a republican who decided to vote for Obama.) Reagan's federal government was big and spent big. (Whether we want to admit it or not.) But at the same time, his tax cuts benefited the working class. So IMO, it's easier for a traditional liberal (big gov't, help the lower-end wage earners) to support Reagan. Conversely, for a "conservative" to support Obama, you have to concede a lot more, IMO. We're talking massive spending, virtually no restrictions on abortion, major restrictions on gun rights, etc. Obama talked a conservative game during the election, but hasn't borne that out as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Taking a hard right might be good for the Southern strategy, but the GOP can't win with just the south anymore. They need to be able to compete in states like Virginia, Ohio, Florida. Seems to me the way to attract more voters would be to act less idealogical and more pragmatic. The Republican base is shrinking as a percentage of the population, (not as a finite number) and it doesn't look good for the fastest growing Demographics such as latinos and other minorities. The only way to counter that is to expand the umbrella through more moderate positions. They need new ideas. They need to stop alienating large groups of people such as Muslims, gays, immigrants, minorities, teachers, union workers, Government employees. They need a more positive message-something more than Anti-Obama/Anti-Pelosi. They need to get real on taxes, the budget, and the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Conservatives need more shows like Grandy and Andy (630 AM morning show here in DC.) Thoughtful conservative shows that aren't afraid to discuss issues intelligently and honestly. Attack attack attack may be self-gratifying, but it accomplishes little more than making the other side defensive. When does that show come on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Conversely, for a "conservative" to support Obama, you have to concede a lot more, IMO. We're talking massive spending, virtually no restrictions on abortion, major restrictions on gun rights, etc. Obama talked a conservative game during the election, but hasn't borne that out as far as I can tell. In some areas that's true. But there are areas, such as foreign policy, where he's showing his moderate side. Despite the right's bluster about Obama's 'apology tours' he's doing a good job of talking softly and carrying a big stick. I'd say he's been as hawkish as he said he'd be during the election ... if not moreso. Obama is very liberal with regards to the economy. But he's remained fairly silent on abortion and is not a huge proponent of gay marriage (other Dems are, but not Obama.) His SC justice selection may change that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Hog, W was option # 2 How'd that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 When does that show come on? It's the morning drive-time show on 630AM here in DC. http://www.wmal.com/sectional.asp?ID=18348 One of the hosts is Fred Grandy, Gopher from The Love Boat who was also once a GOP Congressman. He's actually really good on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I agree with you on some level, but at the same time, I think it was easier for Reagan democrats to cross-over than it would be for an Obama republican. (Course, I say that as a republican who decided to vote for Obama.)Reagan's federal government was big and spent big. (Whether we want to admit it or not.) But at the same time, his tax cuts benefited the working class. So IMO, it's easier for a traditional liberal (big gov't, help the lower-end wage earners) to support Reagan. Conversely, for a "conservative" to support Obama, you have to concede a lot more, IMO. We're talking massive spending, virtually no restrictions on abortion, major restrictions on gun rights, etc. Obama talked a conservative game during the election, but hasn't borne that out as far as I can tell. But keep in mind that he Obama we know today isn't the same Obama we'll know in two years. Right now, he's being labeled (labelled?) as a typical spend big democrat, but many democrats are upset that he didn't do enough - and that he's not taking a progressive enough tone. - he didn't stop the military from banning some gays for coming out of the closet - he hasn't yet done anything regarding military war crimes on Bush - he has appointed some people who don't have too liberal a record (Gates, to name one) I think we'll have to wait and see exactly what the Obama image will be. But whatever it is, I think there will be a number of people who will emerge from it. People will run in republican districts and will want to take advantage of Obama's popularity, but will also want to stick to some republican principles. I kinda think the 2010 and 2012 elections will say a lot about the republican party. Not in terms of how many seats they win or lose, but in who wins or loses. If we see more of these centrist/moderate republicans then I'd think of them as the element of change in the republican party and the leaders of that party of a new era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 It's the morning drive-time show on 630AM here in DC. http://www.wmal.com/sectional.asp?ID=18348 One of the hosts is Fred Grandy, Gopher from The Love Boat who was also once a GOP Congressman. He's actually really good on the radio. Oh, thats gonna be a hard show to listen to. I'm already torn between 1370 and 106.7. I can't divide that 3 ways (that means I can't just flip from AM to FM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 They need new ideas. They need to stop alienating large groups of people such as Muslims, gays, immigrants, minorities, teachers, union workers, Government employees. They need a more positive message-something more than Anti-Obama/Anti-Pelosi. They need to get real on taxes, the budget, and the economy. The GOP has no interest in representing muslims, gays, illegal immigrants or union workers. And their voters have no interest in representing those people either. Nothing would kill the GOP faster . The unions and teachers will always go dem. Although many of those union workers have now been destroyed by their unions, and are unemployed. And as far as the rest of the post, they have always been more trusted on lower taxes, and the economy. No change needs to be made there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 How about defining core issues and actually working on them?Leave the being all things to all people to the Dems(they lie better:evilg:)... X2Bush was not a Conservative (Border, SCOTUS-H. Miers anyone?, Spending) Conservatives were NOT motivated to vote McLaim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 The GOP has no interest in representing muslims, gays, illegal immigrants or union workers. And their voters have no interest in representing those people either. Nothing would kill the GOP faster . The unions and teachers will always go dem. Although many of those union workers have now been destroyed by their unions, and are unemployed. And as far as the rest of the post, they have always been more trusted on lower taxes, and the economy. No change needs to be made there. But you may see people register as republicans because its too hard to win a democratic primary (ala Spectur). I couldn't see Obamacans winning in the south, but look at places like the west, where Obama won some normally republican states. The people there are probably still republicans and still have mainly republican values, but were more attracted to Obama. I could see a democrat with some conservative principles registering as a republican there and winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 First the GOP needs to stop bashing the educated and/or intelligent people of the country, for too long they have deemed anyone who tries to use nuanced arguments as being "elitist" Second they need to stop scapegoating immigrants, it may fire up the base, but its a surefire way to lose elections Third they need to actually deliver on their fiscal conservatism, it's the one thing that will get them votes from reasonable people Fourth they need new blood, the current crop of GOP politicians are not fit to be dog catchers let alone national politicians (out of all of them, maybe Crist or Cantor have any potential) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 First the GOP needs to stop bashing the educated and/or intelligent people of the country, for too long they have deemed anyone who tries to use nuanced arguments as being "elitist"You mean like pointing out the Liberal term "Flyover Country"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 If you look at what Michael Steele is trying to do (albeit doing a piss poor job at it), he's trying to shift the party to be more inclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I picked go to hell and die. The current remaining GOP officeholders have no credibility at all. Plus they have no spine. The GOP needs to go to hell and die and go the way of past parties like the Whig Party. The liberals and moderates can go to the Democrats. The conservatives can form a new Conservative party will take over the apparatus of the old GOP. The GOP is going to do one of 2 things in 2012. Nominate the next guy in line, which would be Mitt Romney. Or they will nominate someone way to the right who will be unelectable in a national election. I'll say it again, OBama fails and you will have an independent candidate win the presidency in 2012. No matter how far left Obama goes and if he fails, the GOP can't win in 2012. One, they have no credibility and two, they haven't presented real concrete solutions to the problems Americans now care about. Healthcare is a big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 And as far as the rest of the post, they have always been more trusted on lower taxes, and the economy. No change needs to be made there. Republicans are more trusted on the economy? I'd like to see you back that up. The number one issue of the last election was the economy and yet they lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 But you may see people register as republicans because its too hard to win a democratic primary (ala Spectur). I couldn't see Obamacans winning in the south, but look at places like the west, where Obama won some normally republican states. The people there are probably still republicans and still have mainly republican values, but were more attracted to Obama. I could see a democrat with some conservative principles registering as a republican there and winning. Politics always runs in cycles, and most parties eventually shoot themselves in the foot. 3-6 months from now, when unemployment is at 10-11%, people will realize that the average american received nothing from the govt bailouts. The dollar will begin to dive, the price of oil begin to move up sharply, and we will be hit with rampant inflation. The 60k temporary census jobs will be viewed as a scam, and the country will become angry. Then people will realize that the only way to turn the economy around is to favor small business growth, and to actually get money back into the hands of the citizens. That is the GOP. They don't need to do anything. Just sit back and let the programs of the Dems shoot themselves in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 i think that just as we saw Regan era Democrats arise, we'll see Obama era Republicans. They'll be conservative on a majority of issues, but more relaxed on others. Some prime candidates that are likely to stick: - small gov't - low taxes - 2nd amendment (although some democrats have adopted this too) Some prime candidates to change: - gov't inclusion into personal lives - religion vs science QFT. How about actually FINDING these principles and following them even when you yourselves are in power :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 .....The liberals and moderates can go to the Democrats. The conservatives can form a new Conservative party will take over the apparatus of the old GOP.......My hope is that the Moderates Continue with the Moderate GOPThe Mechanism will split between the Hard Right and the Country Clubs The coalition will be on fiscal / Foriegn Policy issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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