The GOP: What's the solution? (with poll)

[SkinsHokieFan]

In the near term, STFU for a few years. Don't embarras yourself with budgets with no numbers

I posted in another thread quite a few items on what I think the GOP needs to be focused on, which would still utilize the traditional core conservative principles yet modernize it a bit

Right now the GOP has a big image problem. The party of old white men, big corporations, and endless war. That will not go away for a long time, probably 20+ years

There are several areas the GOP can improve itself, including in not being so overtly corporate. But to be honest, a lot of people within the GOP ranks need to lose elections badly to get rid of the economic illeteracy the party leaders have and the tone deaf approach to everything

A good example to make in roads? A few weeks ago the administration canceled the DC voucher program. Not one GOP member made any type of stink or press conference about it. No press release. A great opening the President left the GOP and they let it go by the way side

So I don't expect much out of this group for quite a while. Perhaps a generation or more

[McD5]

Republicans are more trusted on the economy? I'd like to see you back that up. The number one issue of the last election was the economy and yet they lost.

The majority of Americans, economists and business experts do not believe that higher taxation or welfare are the best strategies to spur economic development.

That has never changed.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Then people will realize that the only way to turn the economy around is to favor small business growth, and to actually get money back into the hands of the citizens.

That is the GOP. They don't need to do anything. Just sit back and let the programs of the Dems shoot themselves in the foot.

Here is the problem

The GOP of today is the big corporation party. The Democrats are the big government party, the GOP the big corporation party.

Both are one and the same. Both suck up resources from individuals. Both are actually closer to each other then we can imagine

The GOP really does need to focus on the small business owner. The group of people in the 250k-1 million dollar range who work 16 hour days supporting their 50 person business.

There is a HUGE opening right now to do that. Yet the GOP, in its complete tone deafness, has shown nothing to these people. They all went to Obama in the last election

[Prosperity]

You mean like pointing out the Liberal term "Flyover Country"?

No I mean like assuming anyone that goes to college is an elitist

But I agree pointing out liberal condescension when it's real is a good thing to do

Also, the whole evolution fight, the GOP needs to ignore the evangelicals on this. Let the scientists do what they want and the evangelicals say what they want but keep it out of politics. The perception of having contempt for the scientific community makes the GOP look brutish.

[SkinsHokieFan]

QFT. How about actually FINDING these principles and following them even when you yourselves are in power :idea:

Ding ding ding

And while in the minority there are a few things you can do

A) You have to have a real platform that presents a credible alternative. That takes time to develop. It doesn't happen in 4 months

You have to act like the perfect child. No ethics violations, no investigations, no David Vitters

C) As a party you invite a diverse range of opinion that fits within your view. You bring Ron Paul and the C4L to the table. You do actually listen to them and what they have to say.

D) You start to amputate off what DIDn't work. Social conservatism is a failure in the long run electoral chances of your party. Sure you'll win parts of the south (and that is now debateable) but you have completely lost the NE and California, and are slowly losing the rest of the west

[AAARedskin]

Going HARD RIGHT is the only way to go, and it's actually normalcy compared to Obama's economic plan that is truly INSANE. Moderates in the the GOP are failures and have no place in the rebuilding of the GOP. A Pat Buchanan/Ronald Reagan type that needs to emerge from the ranks in the GOP will be the greatest statesman of all time compared to the Bidens, Obamas, Franks, Pelosi's, and Dodds that offer no leadership (they are at least good at handing out welfare checks...).

[SkinsHokieFan]

Going HARD RIGHT is the only way to go, and it's actually normalcy compared to Obama's economic plan that is truly INSANE. Moderates in the the GOP are failures and have no place in the rebuilding of the GOP. A Pat Buchanan/Ronald Reagan type that needs to emerge from the ranks in the GOP will be the greatest statesman of all time compared to the Bidens, Obamas, Franks, Pelosi's, and Dodds that offer no leadership (they are at least good at handing out welfare checks...).

I have no problem with the "hard right" turn

But please, Pat Buchanan? OLS

Give me right wing in the package of Gary Johnson, not Pat Buchanan

And Ronald Reagan would be considered a moderate RINO by today's base

[twa]

The majority of Americans, economists and business experts do not believe that higher taxation or welfare are the best strategies to spur economic development.

That has never changed.

Yet the majority voted for it as packaged and still support it

There is a disconnect between economists and business experts ,and the voting public who believe the other guy is gonna pay for the goodies;)

[Prosperity]

the GOP can't even agree on what's conservative, when people say "hard right" they mean hard towards their idea of what the right should be.

hard right on social issues will make them look even more brutish

[twa]

QFT. How about actually FINDING these principles and following them even when you yourselves are in power :idea:

QFFT ...they lost credibility

[SkinsHokieFan]

the GOP can't even agree on what's conservative, when people say "hard right" they mean hard towards their idea of what the right should be.

hard right on social issues will make them look even more brutish

Yup. Thats why this is a party out of power for several decades

[ACW]

Gary Johnson+Ron Paul '12=win

[SkinsHokieFan]

I posetd this in another thread

It comes down to a few things

A) The tax revolt and issues of the 60s and 70s which led to Reagan and the center right dominance of America for a generation is over. Welfare reform. Done. Taxes lowered. Done. Gun control? Dems won't even touch it with a 110 foot pole

The GOP needs to find "new issues" that it can touch people with. The DC school vouchers was a HUGE example of totally missing the boat

There are several of these, which can utilize conservative principles AND change the image

1) Stop looking like you cater to corporate America. Focus on, with rhetoric and action small business in the 250k-1m dollar range, and the business people that start those up. Make a trade off for a millionaire and billionaire tax bracket in order to help the entrepreuners in the 250k-1m range who create quite a few jobs

2) Realize that while some social issues have been won, others will be lost. Included is gay marriage, abortion and pot. Push to de-crim pot, find a compromise on gay marriage, and maintain the status quo on abortion.

3) Start a discussion on the role of government and discuss your solutions to the entitlement problem. Simple mathematics demonstrates that SSI, Medicare and Medicaid are unsustainable.

There are probably 2 dozen other specific issues I can talk about, to me the solutions aren't that hard. They just gotta practice what they preach

A few ways to do that in the minority

1) Hire an ethics panel chock full of Dems to keep watch over your side of aisle

2) Demand complete 100 percent disclosure and sunlight on your side of the aisle. For now don't even worry about the other side

3) Keep your mouth shut for 2 years. You COULD matter after 2010, but its doubtful. Keep your mouth shut again until election time and see what happens

The key thing is patience. Elections aren't won overnight. "Comebacks" in politics don't happen in 2 years. For the GOP and conservatives, it'll probably have to take 2 decades

[Prosperity]

The way I see it, if the GOP just becomes passive on social issues they can still keep their votes, the progressives in the left just need to be more socially liberal than the GOP to send social conservatives to the GOP. The social conservatives are too incompetent to form a third party so that's not a risk. I think it's a lot better for everyone if they talk about social issues from the stand point of state's rights. Let the South keep the Southern values, but quit trying to impose those values on every other part of the country, that **** is not going to fly in most of the country.

I posetd this in another thread

It comes down to a few things...

good post, I think this a good road map for a viable party

[Cooked Crack]

The majority of Americans, economists and business experts do not believe that higher taxation or welfare are the best strategies to spur economic development.

That has never changed.

Again, something tangible.

[Hersh]

There are a couple major problems that the GOP face.

1. What do they stand for these days? The GOP used to be the party of small government, but that was disproven by 8 years of Bush. I used to believe the GOP didn't believe in nation building, but that's exactly what the GOP did when the decision was made to invade Iraq. Is there anything more to the party than cutting taxes and giving tax credits?

2. The GOP is on the wrong side of a couple movements that they will lose on and yet, they refuse to self correct. I'm talking about the environment (going green) and stem cell research. Both of these are movements that will not be stopped. The country will continue to go green and the stem cell lines will be used for research. The GOP would be smart to get out in front of the environment and be radical in a way that shows they are serious about protecting the environment. To prove my point about being on the losing end of an issue: Notice that the GOP is so badly wanting to make Guns an issue, but it's not gonna be cause moderate Democrats realize we lose on that issue.

[SkinsHokieFan]

2. The GOP is on the wrong side of a couple movements that they will lose on and yet, they refuse to self correct. I'm talking about the environment (going green) and stem cell research. Both of these are movements that will not be stopped. The country will continue to go green and the stem cell lines will be used for research. The GOP would be smart to get out in front of the environment and be radical in a way that shows they are serious about protecting the environment. To prove my point about being on the losing end of an issue: Notice that the GOP is so badly wanting to make Guns an issue, but it's not gonna be cause moderate Democrats realize we lose on that issue.

The GOP has "won" the gun war

The AWB, despite being in Obama's platform is a no go because of guys like Heath Shuler, who probably would have been an R back in 1994

[McD5]

The craziest thing of all is the belief that any of it really matters.

People arguing about politics on a message board isn't going to further anyone's personal success.

Is anyone better off now that Obama got elected? No.

Would anyone be better off had the election gone the other way? No.

What party wins the election means nothing to one's own success. Time spent discussing such matters is a terrible waste and loss.

That time would be much better spent on starting one's own business.

You are the only one that can determine your success. Life is short. Make the most of your time.

[Prosperity]

The craziest thing of all is the belief that any of it really matters.

People arguing about politics on a message board isn't going to further anyone's personal success.

Is anyone better off now that Obama got elected? No.

Would anyone be better off had the election gone the other way? No.

What party wins the election means nothing to one's own success. Time spent discussing such matters is a terrible waste and loss.

That time would be much better spent on starting one's own business.

You are the only one that can determine your success. Life is short. Make the most of your time.

I care about the country's success, if you don't care then get out of the way (metaphorically speaking)

[McD5]

I care about the country's success, if you don't care then get out of the way (metaphorically speaking)

Then get out and start your own business. That will help the country's success, and your success.

Talking about politics all day does neither.

[Hersh]

The GOP has "won" the gun war

The AWB, despite being in Obama's platform is a no go because of guys like Heath Shuler, who probably would have been an R back in 1994

That's my point exactly. Moderate dems are smart enough to know this. The GOP needs to learn this on an issue like the environment. The Dems will win on this issue more and more cause the green movement is really growing.

[Prosperity]

Then get out and start your own business. That will help the country's success, and your success.

Talking about politics all day does neither.

That's not my role in society

[McD5]

That's not my role in society

So what is your role in society?

[mjah]

The GOP's basic problem is simple: America doesn't want what the current GOP wants.

If you want to win elections and influence the nation, proud-to-be-dense far right ideology isn't going to get you there. Accusing popular politicians of "pallin' around with terrorists," inventing Socialist monikers that roll off because they're based in fantasy, claiming (but not actually having) a more realistic point of view than "mainstream" science and media, actively rooting for a well-liked president to fail, claiming some kind of moral superiority while your members solicit sex in airport restrooms, actively campaigning for partial sex-ed classes for kids instead of giving them a full education in reproductive health... None of this paints any image of basic trustworthiness in divining what modern America wants. Putting aside our personal opinions on these issues, let's just take a second to observe that America has made clear its disagreement with every one of these ideas. And this list could be much longer.

The GOP has to change. They have some good fundamental issues to work with (even if it's still too early for them to push things like fiscal conservatism without coming off as hypocritical), so it's not like the quiver is empty. As Democrats get more bold, the issue count surely will increase.

But the first step is to get a reasonable, moderate populist voice out front who, if it comes down to it, isn't afraid to tell frothy ideologues like Rush Limbaugh to go to hell. If that's too tall an order and said moderate gets sunk as a result, then it will be abundantly clear who's really in charge on the right. That would be yet another ticket to Irrelevancyville for the entire party, so I can see how they're unwilling to repeat that experiment any time soon.

But they ought to have that fight now. Just as you open a startup business in bad times or reboot a franchise when it totally sucks, the time for significant reform is when chaos is high and value is low. That's how Obama (and others) did it. It's the tried-and-true way. So we'll see.

There aren't any reasonable alternatives, honestly. The idea that the Democrats will wander so far left that this GOP looks reasonable is pure fantasy. They'd have to call for 75% income tax rates and mandatory cavity searches in nursery schools in order to match the present-day insanity on the far right. I wouldn't put that past Pelosi (half-joking), but with the reasonable guy on top it'll never happen.

Both sides have their total loons, by the way, and probably in equal measure. Democrats simply have managed to keep theirs away from the Oval Office. (Biden can be a dope, but he's no far-left loon.)

Of course, in Congress virtually everyone's a nut.

[Prosperity]

So what is your role in society?

to learn, gain wisdom, educate others so that they are good citizens and then apply my intelligence to law, and make sure society is governed in a reasonable way

(going to law school)

Everyone has a duty to do what they can do best according to their capacities. Mine is not to commerce through starting a small business (at the worst possible time to start a business). If that's what your role is, then by all means quit diddling around on here... though really it is everyone's duty to be a good citizen and that means learning from others. So if you are learning from other people then this is a good way to spend your time (in moderation).