ORAKPO vs WILSON

[Weapon X]

Aslong as he gets playing time I really don't care where he plays. With that being said I would rather him play DE but I'm not against for trying him at LB. Hey if it works and we actually get pressure on the Q then why not :whoknows:

[StillUnknown]

if they wanted a LB, they should've drafted one

Orakpo at LB for any extended period, worries me a little

the man is a DE, let him get his reps there. coach him to improve his technique in stopping the run and let him play on the line. instead we run the risk of overwhelming him by essentially trying to make him learn 2 positions at once

[Mercuryrising]

I think it all looks like a not very well thought out - MESS.

This is the kind of experiment you don't mind doing with a 3rd or 4th round guy, but not the player who you had #1 on your draft board for DE, when you need a DE.

But what do I know? I am sure I have not won as many super bowl rings as Snyderatto has....

[CommanderDOOM]

Rak played a lil linebacker before. They want to maximise his talent by having him on the field as much as possible. Rak wasn't so strong against the run in the Big 12. What do you think will happen in the NFC Beast. Wynn/Daniels will be there on perceived run downs and hopefully Rak can cover the T/E or a back coming out the flats. If not, he'll be a 3rd down 'get to the QB' specialist.

[Chopper Dave]

show me guys in their mold who have made the transition to a 4-3 and been as effective and I'll be more optimistic...

Terrell Suggs comes to mind without doing any searching. I'm sure there's more.

[redskins2473]

As long as Blache is at the helm, I trust that he will put guys in the best position to make plays and with Orakpo and Haynesworth in the mix, he's got more talent that ever. Great things are coming from this unit.

[Best Team Ever]

Terrell Suggs comes to mind without doing any searching. I'm sure there's more.

I have no idea how to spell his name but Mathius Kaneutha from the Giants has played well at both DB and OLB in the 4-3.

[goldenster95]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought the Wilson was Bobby Wilson. LOL

[Oldskool]

Wilson isn't big enough to be a DE and not fluid enough to be a SAM. If he could have played SAM, he would have done so in the NFL previously.

If we have Wilson at SAM on opening day, that means plans A though E failed, leaving us F'd.

[goldenster95]

Wilson isn't big enough to be a DE and not fluid enough to be a SAM. If he could have played SAM, he would have done so in the NFL previously.

If we have Wilson at SAM on opening day, that means plans A though E failed, leaving us F'd.

I think he said he'd be playing SAM in a recent interview with Doc Walker.

[Oldskool]

I think he said he'd be playing SAM in a recent interview with Doc Walker.

Good luck with that. If he succeeds, then it's brilliant. I personally don't think it will work.

[goldenster95]

Good luck with that. If he succeeds, then it's brilliant. I personally don't think it will work.

Here's the link to the interview. He states that he'll lining up on the strong-side when playing LB at 3:04 mark of the interview. He also notes that he'll have his hand on the ground on third downs and that if this little experiment at LB doesn't work, he'll go back to DE again. However, the purpose of moving him to LB is to get him more PT, and if he goes back to DE, his PT will be limited like it was last year.

http://www.stationcaster.com/player.php?s=65&c=428&f=25012

[HA1LV1CT0RY]

That fact that he switches from OLB to DE does make us less predictable. Is he blitzing as a LB or is he in zone/man coverage? When he has his hand in the dirt is he coming or is he dropping back? Is the LB behind him coming as well?

Obviously there are limits to how "unpredictable" you can really be but it certainly does add options.

This is what I'm looking forward to. Offenses not knowing WHAT's coming at them (i.e. ravens/pitts)

I would love to see Wilson and Orakpo both on the field on obvious passing downs' date=' that is a scary situation for any QB, regardless of which position they are rushing from.[/quote']

I think our D is going to be solid...now for the offense :saber:

[jtyler42]

yeah, they are outside rushers in a 3-4 scheme... show me guys in their mold who have made the transition to a 4-3 and been as effective and I'll be more optimistic... facts are 4-3 teams stay away from them in free agency and drafts because schemes are schemes for a reason are we are not going to be switching up to a 3-4...

Terrell Suggs, Mathias Kiwaunuka, Chris Gocong, Adalius Thomas...off the top of my head...As far as switching to a 3-4, your right we won't be switching to a true 3-4, but we have 3-4 personnel and the perfect D to run with this type of personnel is the 4-3 under D...The Chargers, Arizona, & Baltimore all run this D with their 3-4 personnel as well as a true 3-4...

These are some very good articles explaining the 4-3 under D...

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/43_under_blitz_schemes.html

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/Super+Bowl/2008/wwhi013009.htm

and I disagree about orakpo making us less predictable... blitzing the SLB is nothing new, we tried it with marcus all the time, the difference won't be that it's unpredictable but that orakpo might actually be able to get to the QB which marcus could not do late in his career... but can orakpo cover like marcus could when he was healthy? we can't hide players on the field in certain situation, especially rookies.. guess we'll see..

It remains to be seen if he can cover man 2 man yet...I think he can drop into a zone fine...IF he can't man up, we can just blitz him and Horton can cover the Back or TE...

[PROSCOUT]

Just a clarification...

They are competing for the SAM Linebacker position, which lines up on the strength of the offensive formation. The linebackers are not assigned Right/Left.

Since our guys aren't in the huddle, how will we know which side is the strength of the offensive formation until AFTER the play has been run?

[MartinC]

yeah, they are outside rushers in a 3-4 scheme... show me guys in their mold who have made the transition to a 4-3 and been as effective and I'll be more optimistic... facts are 4-3 teams stay away from them in free agency and drafts because schemes are schemes for a reason are we are not going to be switching up to a 3-4... and I disagree about orakpo making us less predictable... blitzing the SLB is nothing new, we tried it with marcus all the time, the difference won't be that it's unpredictable but that orakpo might actually be able to get to the QB which marcus could not do late in his career... but can orakpo cover like marcus could when he was healthy? we can't hide players on the field in certain situation, especially rookies.. guess we'll see..

Others have given you quite a few examples of 3-4 outside LBers who are also effective DE is a 4-3. I will give you one much closer to home - Andre Carter.

He was a OLB in the 49ers 3-4 when we picked him up as a free agent and switched him to a RDE in a 4-3. He has played very well for the most part with a 10 sack season a couple of years ago.

The less predictable bit is that if Orakpo lines up as a DE with a linebacker behind him the offense can not be totally sure if they are looking at 4-3 front or if Orakpo will drop and give them a 3-4 look on any given play. It also gives us more flexibility to run the zone blitz.

For the record though I think Orakpos future is adding 10 pounds to get into the 270 range and playing as a 3 down DE. He will probably switch to RDE at some point as well when Carter has gone or is less effective.

[wilco_holland]

So we can say we have, two players that take two rooster spots but have four positions on the depth chart. We also have H.B Blades who plays multiply LB spots.

Three players (Wilson, Orakpo and Blades) will be on the depth chart as 3 SLB, 1 MLB and 2 DE's (6 spots in total), so there will be more space on the 53 man rooster for development guys or a extra RB/WR/Special team guy.

[DCMONEY]

I think if orakpo can gain about 10 pounds to get up around 270 he can be an effective end that can do it both ways. Defend the run as well as pass rush. The Skins haven't had that since Manley and Mann.

[rick1796]

Since our guys aren't in the huddle, how will we know which side is the strength of the offensive formation until AFTER the play has been run?

Generally, it's the side on which the TE lines up.

[fansince62]

The linebackers aside -- Coach Blache has got to be loving the kind of options he's going to have this year. A good amount of talent on the defensive side of the ball this season for sure -- lots of youth and speed.

linebacking is about read & react. if you recall...that was a problem for mcintosh early on. at this point...we have no idea how these two will do in this role. their success will hinge, in large part, on how they approach the game from the the part of their bodies that lies between their ears.

too early to tell. let's hope shere athleticism keeps them "in the game" until such time as the mental part creates advantages.

[MartinC]

Generally, it's the side on which the TE lines up.

I think he gets that - his point would be that offenses can do a lot of things with motion and to hide the strength of the formation or switch it at the last moment. They can also run a balanced formation with no strong or weak side which is what Joe Gibbs developed back in the 80's specifically to combat Lawrence Taylor so the Giants could not switch Taylor to the weak side and give him air to rush against.

[laxpck]

Anyone else see this as a possibility of lining up in the 5-2 Defense???

1st and Second down?

I think the comparisons between Orakpo and Wilson are crazy...considering there is a 25-30 pound defense between the two.

I was watching a NFL classic replay from 94 between Elway and Montana last night (Broncos-Chiefs obvi) and I could help but watch Derrick Thomas going from Hand in dirt on one play to upright next play....Man if EITHER of these guys can emulate him as a DE/OLB....just man. That guy was the REAL DEAL. What a great player.

[theboomking]

Comparing Orakpo and Wilson is like comparing Landry and Doughty. Orakpo is a much better athlete, larger, faster, more explosive, much stronger. The only advantage that Wilson has is experience. Orakpo is bigger than both of the Giant's starting DE's, so I don't think he is too small. He will probably wind up transitioning permanently to DE by his second year, but will spend time this year at both spots.

Clayton was on 980 sports and said that he will rush from DE on 3rd down, and on 1st and 2nd down's will blitz frequently. Based on last years percentages, he said that Orakpo should be rushing the passer about 78% of the time. I'm not sure how that number was calculated, but if true, it sounds fine to me.

Thanks to whoever posted the link about running a 4-3 "under". That scheme would seem to be a good use of Orakpo. Hopefully what we will see this year is a mixture of looks.

[Spitfire71]

If you want me to be honest, I think we might need to look elsewhere for DC if we can't generate any pressure this season. With the athletes we're getting on defense, we could pull some crazy ****, and an inability to do that, at this point, could only come from a coordinator that was being very timid with his schemes. Daniels (who's 285, BTW) occupying a blocker while Haynesworth occupies two and Orakpo racing around the strong side at sub-4.7 speed?

Good luck. Even on a 5-man blitz, somebody's probably going to get through.

And our secondary is largely young (the oldest starter will probably be Carlos at 26) but I think consistent pressure will make their job infinitely easier, even if they are man-to-man. And don't forget that Landry likes to blitz every once in a while. Just when everyone gets concerned about our front seven, we can keep O, Al, Carter, and Griff as the 4-down to get pressure while bringing Landry from God knows where.

I'm not really concerned about the run so much. After all, anybody that runs in the general direction of Orakpo is also running in the general direction of Haynesworth. Besides that, if you manage to get past Haynesworth you have to deal with one of the best pure form tacklers in the league in London Fletcher. Orakpo did get washed out in the run a bit in college, but in his defense (no pun intended), the Big 12 features some offensive linemen that are damn near as big as Mike Williams.

[rick1796]

I think he gets that - his point would be that offenses can do a lot of things with motion and to hide the strength of the formation or switch it at the last moment. They can also run a balanced formation with no strong or weak side which is what Joe Gibbs developed back in the 80's specifically to combat Lawrence Taylor so the Giants could not switch Taylor to the weak side and give him air to rush against.

Well, either he didnt understand how you could tell an offenses strong side from their weak side (which is fine)or it was just an arguementative stupid question. sure there is more to it. two tight end or no tight end you might take the more open side of the field. unbalanced lines might play into it. However once the offense lines up the strong side should be apparent and that is where the strongside linebacker will positions himself. Depending on the defense he may shift with the tight end or may remain in his zone. The issue remains that there is a strongside andweakside linebackers because generally there is a visible strongside and weakside of the offense. . .