NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Hmmm sounds like a typical American young-adult to me. Drinking while under-age...check. Drinking until intoxication.....check. Trying to grope a college coed while intoxicated....check. Now if he had actually raped a woman, I would be pissed if we drafted him, but that is not the case. :doh: First of all, none of those behaviors are acceptable regardless of how common they may be. Second, he didn't try to just grope a woman, he committed sexual assault and repeatedly tried to get her to have sex with him. ANYTHING but "yes" means "no" and I certainly hope that everyone on this board knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If you're sexually assaulting someone, that means that the woman(or man if it is the other way around) has said 'no' to whatever "favors" the sicko was trying to offer. Women are not just little objects to play with, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If you're sexually assaulting someone, that means that the woman(or man if it is the other way around) has said 'no' to whatever "favors" the sicko was trying to offer. Women are not just little objects to play with, people. Haha, not exactly the academic way to put it, but yeah, that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Should this and the other brushes with USC campus security for underage drinking and vandalism be a character concern or a factor in considering him for the draft as a franchise quarterback? It should be for any other team, but Danny cares about as much for this stuff as he does for injury history, not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Ok. This is way out of hand. Comparing a possible rape to pretty overwhelming evidence of a man nearly decapitating his wife. Really? USC knows how to produce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 This may be the worst post I've ever seen.Did you seriously just call a peer-reviewed journal biased because its title included the word "feminist"? There's a lot of peer reviewed ___. And sorry, if you're going to use statistics that everyone already has known for a decade are bogus, I don't know what to tell you. It's your fault for wanting to desperately to be a lapdog to a sociopolitical interest whose agenda involves smearing all of one sex with the label of 'rapist/potential rapist.' Next you're going to give us that bogus Super Bowl domestic abuse thing as gospel truth. I feel like I'm stuck in the mid-90s with the "there's a woman sexually assaulted every nanosecond! Men, don't rape! We know you're all basically wanting to go around raping women." Seriously, what classes did you take, are you in grad school now being indoctrinated? People are interested to know why you sound like a mid-90s Catherine McKinnon-clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 There's a lot of peer reviewed ___. And sorry, if you're going to use statistics that everyone already has known for a decade are bogus, I don't know what to tell you. It's your fault for wanting to desperately to be a lapdog to a sociopolitical interest whose agenda involves smearing all of one sex with the label of 'rapist/potential rapist.'Next you're going to give us that bogus Super Bowl domestic abuse thing as gospel truth. I feel like I'm stuck in the mid-90s with the "there's a woman sexually assaulted every nanosecond! Men, don't rape! We know you're all basically wanting to go around raping women." Seriously, what classes did you take, are you in grad school now being indoctrinated? People are interested to know why you sound like a mid-90s Catherine McKinnon-clone. Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that. I couldn't possibly tell you how much of an arrogant, ignorant, sexist, chauvinistic, insensitive prick you sound like. I hate to put it that way, but that's such an unbelievably stupid post, you aren't worth my time, and I truly pity any woman in your life. I really, really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I've had friends murdered and friends who've been raped. I don't know what's worse for the victim after seeing it from both angles. Honestly, I couldn't tell you one is worse than the other. On the one hand a life is cut short, on the other hand a person is tortured for a lifetime. So, from personal experience, I don't even know the answer to that question. I was hoping someone would mention that. I'm almost done reading up on this thread, and it's interesting to see so many men debate about a woman being raped. And I too am torn on which is worse, murder or rape. Well, it depends on your perspective. As the victim, I chose rape. You are alive and have to deal with it for the rest of your life. If you are murdered, then your family/friends deal with it, so they would say Murder is worse. And obviously our court system beleives murder is worse, as I've seen an 11 yr old rape victim, with 6 rapists (gang rape) who only served 10-12 months each. Thank you NC21 and Dan and a few others for standing up and saying that this shouldn't just be swept under the rug as if it never happened. College rape/date rape happen so much, you can't even imagine how much. I know that NC21 mentioned the stats of 1 in 4. Well, I think nearly every single woman that I have ever met, it's more like 50% or more have expereinced rape (incest, date or stranger rape), or sexually molested (again, incest, stranger) in their lifetime. It is RARE that I meet a woman who hasn't been sexually assualted in one way or another. Me included. AND, just because he was accused, doesn't mean he is guilty. Just because the charges were later dropped, doesn't mean he is innocent. Just because a woman lets you make out with her, or touch her boobs, does not give you permission to have intercourse. Just because a woman is a stripper or dresses provoctively, doesn't give you a bit of persmission unless she says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Everyone knows that the best teams are always a little on the date-rapey side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Rape is not as common as you think, I don't care what you read in a book by a radical feminist with an agenda to advance. You sir are not as educated on this as you might like to think. There are many people on ES, me included, with a law enforcement/legal/social work background and don't need a "feminist book" to know that rape is common...all too common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhodus333 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 You know what I hate? Generalizations. And not just some generalizations, but all generalizations. every last one of them, regardless of whether they are valid or not. The only thing worse than a generalization is a hypocrite. Sarcasm I can deal with........... Rape is a crime that's so emotionally charged and different from case to case that I find it impossible to determine the "right" attitude to have or to use as a set example within the justice system. Its impossible, and extremely presumptuous and disrespectful, to say you know what steps SOMEONE ELSE should take if they are sexually assaulted. Often times the statistics can be dangerously misleading, because the numbers cannot accuratley reflect factors such as: parental pressuring for the individual to report/not report what happened, the attitude of law enforcement officials, or the victims religious or ethical views. Also it should not be discounted that because it is such a serious crime, being ACCUSED, not convicted but ACCUSED, is often enough to earn someone a lifetime of association with a crime they might be totally innocent of. The only thing that is certain is that everyone would react in a different way if something like this happened to them. But to patronize others for their beliefs and claim that your opinion is the only right one, and the only one that should be heard or taken into account, is disturbingly ignorant. Not only do we not know the facts of the case, none of us even know the individuals in question, keep that in mind before you condemn them or use them as examples in one of your "infalliable", statistics based arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I was hoping someone would mention that. I'm almost done reading up on this thread, and it's interesting to see so many men debate about a woman being raped. And I too am torn on which is worse, murder or rape. Well, it depends on your perspective. As the victim, I chose rape. You are alive and have to deal with it for the rest of your life. If you are murdered, then your family/friends deal with it, so they would say Murder is worse. And obviously our court system beleives murder is worse, as I've seen an 11 yr old rape victim, with 6 rapists (gang rape) who only served 10-12 months each. Thank you NC21 and Dan and a few others for standing up and saying that this shouldn't just be swept under the rug as if it never happened. College rape/date rape happen so much, you can't even imagine how much. I know that NC21 mentioned the stats of 1 in 4. Well, I think nearly every single woman that I have ever met, it's more like 50% or more have expereinced rape (incest, date or stranger rape), or sexually molested (again, incest, stranger) in their lifetime. It is RARE that I meet a woman who hasn't been sexually assualted in one way or another. Me included. AND, just because he was accused, doesn't mean he is guilty. Just because the charges were later dropped, doesn't mean he is innocent. Just because a woman lets you make out with her, or touch her boobs, does not give you permission to have intercourse. Just because a woman is a stripper or dresses provoctively, doesn't give you a bit of persmission unless she says so. Very well said! I think that the statistics for any given group of women will depend on the sample. Sex crimes are ridiculously underreported and affect many, many people in all of our lives that you will never, ever know about. It's horrifying. You make a great point that I neglected to acknowledge with other posters: NOT all men are rapists. NOT all of those accused are rapists. NOT all of those who have charges dropped are innocent. Quite simply, rape is a tremendously rampant problem that doesn't get the amount of attention that it deserves because people are terrified of even discussing. And, to add to your last point: Just because a woman has had sex with you before doesn't mean that she "owes" you anything ever again. Did you know that marital rape was legal in Maryland and 37 other states as well as DC? And, until this time last year, there was no such thing as withdrawing consent once sex had begun? If she changed her mind, too bad, so sad. Didn't matter. Ridiculous laws like those change because people stand up to this most terrible of crimes, not because they are silent. Watching this happen, knowing about it happening, and not doing anything about it holds you just as guilty as the ****ers who perpetrate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 newcliche, take this to the tailgate. this is the stadium where we talk about football, not your opinions on the effects of rape on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dah-Dee Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Hypocritical how? Isn't it obvious? We all know you're a partying college QB! Now come clean! In sentences using only 15 or fewer words each. With appropriate punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that.I couldn't possibly tell you how much of an arrogant, ignorant, sexist, chauvinistic, insensitive prick you sound like. I hate to put it that way, but that's such an unbelievably stupid post, you aren't worth my time, and I truly pity any woman in your life. I really, really do. + a million. thank you for being the kind of guy you are NC21....it helps counter act the idiotic ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that.I couldn't possibly tell you how much of an arrogant, ignorant, sexist, chauvinistic, insensitive prick you sound like. I hate to put it that way, but that's such an unbelievably stupid post, you aren't worth my time, and I truly pity any woman in your life. I really, really do. dude, you are going so off the deep end its not even funny. take this to the tailgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 And, to add to your last point: Just because a woman has had sex with you before doesn't mean that she "owes" you anything ever again. Did you know that marital rape was legal in Maryland and 37 other states as well as DC? And, until this time last year, there was no such thing as withdrawing consent once sex had begun? If she changed her mind, too bad, so sad. Didn't matter. Ridiculous laws like those change because people stand up to this most terrible of crimes, not because they are silent. Watching this happen, knowing about it happening, and not doing anything about it holds you just as guilty as the ****ers who perpetrate it. BLC, might be right...mods might wanna move this to the TG.... anyway, about the marital rape. My dad allegedly raped my mom after she filed for divorce when I was 5. She told me this a few years ago. She never reported it cause it was in 1982 and she knew no one would care. That said, I don't want to draft Sanchez and I felt that way before this came out. I think we have bigger needs right now on our OL/DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 After reading this thread, just a few thoughts: 1) Anytime the phrase "Sexual assault" is used, it's probably best not to lump it into the "college silliness" category. 2) Anyone thinking Sean Taylor had similar legal "red flags" during his college years is either A) a Cowboys fan, or quite possibly one of the dumbest Redskins fans alive. 3) The Duke rape case was not tossed out because it was some kids with "rich daddies" going up against "just some stripper". That case was horrendously botched from the get-go and never should have proceeded to the point that it did. Way, WAY too many inconsistencies to warrant going further, and it's probably the fact that the defendants had "rich daddies" that helped spur bringing charges against the students at the time. The district attorney resigned, and his actions were so questionable that he faced ethics charges...he publicly apologized, and even the state attorney general said the rape never happened. 4) This comment on one of the links actually made me go "ut oh": Menjou, who said he recognized Sanchez and called him "the next Matt Leinart," Tell me that didn't make you go "ut oh", too lol... 5) This was 3 years ago, and by all accounts he seems to have straightened up, so it should be water under the bridge. Hopefully the "sexual assault" was more along the lines of "misunderstanding" than "full-blown rape". Since it wasn't called "rape" I'm assuming the latter didn't happen, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 dude, you are going so off the deep end its not even funny. take this to the tailgate. Going off the deep end? Excuse me? And this all comes back to Sanchez. We should be questioning his character and whether he's what we want on our team. We should be looking into this event, whether it happened or not, and we as Redskins fans should be held to a higher standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I don't see this being factored into his draft evaluation. He was a young kid getting drunk at college. That's exactly what 90% of the other kids at USC are doing. I'm sure everyone here that drinks has done something stupid when they were drunk that they regretted later, I'll chalk it up to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Going off the deep end? Excuse me?And this all comes back to Sanchez. We should be questioning his character and whether he's what we want on our team. We should be looking into this event, whether it happened or not, and we as Redskins fans should be held to a higher standard. youve stopped discussing sanchez and youre going overboard on people, especially ghost, claiming you feel sorry for any woman in his life because hes not sympathizing 100% with this story. thats pretty lame and uncalled for. get back to discussing sanchez, thats fine. stop preaching about sexual assault, unless you wanna go to the tailgate which is fine by me. youre giving off a pretty holier than thou vibe which isnt necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If he was an African American this would equate to character issues that would be posted on the mock drafts, quoted over and over by analysts but oddly this is the first time i have heard this. Point BLANK DONT DRAFT SANCHEZ WE DONT NEED HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If he was an African American this would equate to character issues that would be posted on the mock drafts, quoted over and over by analysts but oddly this is the first time i have heard this. Point BLANK DONT DRAFT SANCHEZ WE DONT NEED HIM wow, now were doing the "if he was black" stuff? who's making popcorn? ill bring the soda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I don't see this being factored into his draft evaluation. He was a young kid getting drunk at college. That's exactly what 90% of the other kids at USC are doing. I'm sure everyone here that drinks has done something stupid when they were drunk that they regretted later, I'll chalk it up to that. Doing what he's accused of doing is not something that's chalked up to anything. Driving drunk and killing someone isn't just chalked up to being drunk, is it? No. Being drunk is never, ever an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 youve stopped discussing sanchez and youre going overboard on people, especially ghost, claiming you feel sorry for any woman in his life because hes not sympathizing 100% with this story. thats pretty lame and uncalled for.get back to discussing sanchez, thats fine. stop preaching about sexual assault, unless you wanna go to the tailgate which is fine by me. youre giving off a pretty holier than thou vibe which isnt necessary. You clearly didn't read what Ghost said, a guy who I used to respect before that awful, awful post. If you agree with him, then you can join him. It's not holier-than-thou if it's protecting the women in YOUR life, is it? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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