"No one else in the league wants Jason Campbell..."

[zoony]

In the NFL, I don't think Jason DEFINITELY starts for ANY team. He is given a shot to compete. Well, maybe the Lions but I hear they like Culpepper for next year but I can see him going there..

Well that's sort of a given. All jobs are up for competition. (Unless you're starting QB for the 'skins )

I said in my post earlier Jason could start for 5-6 teams in the league. What I meant was that I think he could beat out who they have currently. So, here are those teams: (and a caveat here, I have not been following offseason moves at all. So I reserve the right not to realize something )

-Bills

-Jets

-Broncos (ironically enough. I think Campbell is better than Orton)

-Lions

-Vikings

And of those teams, I think the only 2 that might consider parting with a mid round pick are the Lions and Jets. We know Denver doesn't want him. And Childress seems to be stuck on Jackson. And the Bills seem to like their guy for some reason.

But, I do think JC is better than the starting QB for any of those teams.

And of course, that could all change with the draft. Could very well be that 3 of these teams drop off this list after the draft. Which basically means we have a starting QB who couldn't crack the starting lineup for all but 1 or 2 teams in the entire league.

Not a formula for success I'd say.

I think we ought to take a QB at 13. (if one is a available and worth drafting that high)

........

[TheGoodBits]

I think we ought to take a QB at 13. (if one is a available and worth drafting that high)

........

There will be next year I think. This year, not so much. Even if Sanchez falls that far, I pray we don't take him. Another bust in the making.

[Ghost of]

Honestly all yall Jason Campbell haters need to stfu. When we were 6-2 and Jason was an MVP canidate yall was praising him. . but when your throwing to 5'10'' recievers it's hard to throw outside the numbers and down the field.

Wow, is that why the inaccurate BRunell was at least able to connect with Moss down the field?

And only people who were drunk off their gourd said Jason was an MVP candidate so please stop dredging up that nonsense. One guy says something and now it gets thrown around for months, while all the other stuff the media says is ignored.

As for short receivers, who tall is Deion Branch or David Patten. Hint: under 5-11. How tall is Cooley? Thomas? Thrash? How tall was Lloyd? Only a loser would give the height of receivers as an excuse for a QB. You have the mentality of a loser and as my old shop teacher would say, "Excuses are the causes of failure."

BTW, our wheels were falling off long before the line got hurt. As the poster feeshta on CPND points out, Campbell said Zorn was keeping Jason's reads to one side of the field. When asked about it Zorn seemed taken aback and never really addressed the question. It brings to mind that MAYBE, just MAYBE defenses figured that out and the attempt to give Jason back the entire field as the option failed and that even with the one side of the field, he was not doing too well (it's not like we were on fire, offensively.)

Besides, our offense was 'good' (it wasn't, it was still pretty bad and we needed a PR from Moss to beat the Lions and a fourth down stand and some luck to beat the Browns) because of Portis and the offensive line. Not Campbell's paltry 8 TDs in 8 games. The thing is our schedule was softer so it looked like we were OK until we hit that 2-6 skid.

[Ghost of]

Hmm. I've wondered about some things. Both JaMarcus Russell and Tarvaris Jackson had a better end of the season when compared to Campbell. And Jackson had to recover from a poor start prior to his benching. (would Campbell beat out Frerotte, if Frerotte is healthy?) For all the crap Russell gets and I'm not saying he WILL be great but he finished well. That win vs. Tampa was impressive. It MATTERED to Tampa to win that game and he won on the road while playing relatively well in the passing game.

I've said for some time that Campbell is essentially a bottom third QB. He can be better than that with more development but why any team sits around and waits for a first rounder to reach the breathless heights of mediocrity, I don't know.

Now that they have Rosenfels, I'm not convinced Campbell beats him out except for team's that like to be swayed by impressive physical skills and think the "lights" will go on for that guy. A lot of teams seem to give young dudes a chance, even when the older vet IS better.

And here's something to toss in there. I don't think Campbell would beat out Ramsey in Tennessee for the backup job.

(Btw, I think feestha on CPND brings up a great point. I think they were simplifying things for Jason and he actually admitted it in an interview. Zorn was probably upset by that fact because, if it hadn't already happened, it was GUARANTEED to happen that Ds would use his "one half of the field" to bait him to throw into coverage or simply not allow him to do anything.

It would explain why Portis couldn't get anything going. The breakdown of the offensive line was more of a sideshow, I believe. It's not like Collins having Fabini was Esiason/Munoz revisited.

[mi6]

I think its more like "no one wanted to give up a second rounder for Jason Campbell".

I think thats probably fair enough at this point in time.

I agree.

There is no debate that the FO really doesn't think nor is it sold that Jason Campbell is our Franchise QB. The dialogue between Synder and Jason was to articulate just that, and setup proper expectations.

If Jason delivers -- GREAT! If not, he will be packing his back.

Folks forget that we gave up 3 draft picks including a first rounder to get Jason. There were QBs taken prior to Jason who are playing at a higher level than he is ...and, that is the bottom line!

[RedskinsFan318]

Tell me that next offseason. Right now he's starter and with Cutler going to the Bears it seems that's how it's going to be. Give him his contract year, if he does bad he doesn't get a new contract. If he does good, he gets his contract and becomes permanent starter. What is so difficult about that?

[Mooka]

Tell me that next offseason. Right now he's starter and with Cutler going to the Bears it seems that's how it's going to be. Give him his contract year, if he does bad he doesn't get a new contract. If he does good, he gets his contract and becomes permanent starter. What is so difficult about that?

That would be the "if he does bad" part.

[PROSCOUT]

Thus far, Jason's performance has been like a strong 2nd string QB. That much we know. But he also has had some bad luck with fumbles from Cooley and Portis and Drops by Moss and A.R.E along with Cooley. Throw in the poor play calling from Zorn and conservative approach, and a ffew missed field goals and poor punting, and the Redskins did pretty well considering.

In other words, with the wind against him, Campbell did OK...not great but OK. With the wind at his back this season, he could do exceptionally well, but he is still going to have to have a number one receiver, which is what all those other guys have. You know which guys I 'm talking about...all the ones he is being compared to.

I believe some of you would feel better if the Skins could trade Jason Campbell for a 2nd round pick, and then start all over with a new QB. And I know even if the Skins go 10-6 and make the playoffs....I can see it coming now....many of you are going to say "We should have traded for Cutler...then we could have been 14-2."

ITS COMING...AND YOU KNOW IT, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

[HawaiianTime]

Thus far, Jason's performance has been like a strong 2nd string QB. That much we know. But he also has had some bad luck with fumbles from Cooley and Portis and Drops by Moss and A.R.E along with Cooley. Throw in the poor play calling from Zorn and conservative approach, and a ffew missed field goals and poor punting, and the Redskins did pretty well considering.

In other words, with the wind against him, Campbell did OK...not great but OK. With the wind at his back this season, he could do exceptionally well, but he is still going to have to have a number one receiver, which is what all those other guys have. You know which guys I 'm talking about...all the ones he is being compared to.

I believe some of you would feel better if the Skins could trade Jason Campbell for a 2nd round pick, and then start all over with a new QB. And I know even if the Skins go 10-6 and make the playoffs....I can see it coming now....many of you are going to say "We should have traded for Cutler...then we could have been 14-2."

ITS COMING...AND YOU KNOW IT, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

I don't think 10-6 will get us a WildCard spot.

I agree with the play calling. If Zorn had opened up with the play calling and was a lot less conservative, things may have been different for Campbell. I'm not sure why Zorn was reluctant to do this. Some can say he lacked confidence in Campbell, and some can say Zorn is inexperienced and had too many responsibilities. I'm not sure who is to blame, but I lean on blaming Zorn more only because it is his responsibility as the HC to adjust his play calling around the strengths of the team and get wins. That doesn't mean I'm happy with Campbell's performance, nor do I believe he will make a miraculous jump, unless Zorn adjusts his plays around the strengths of his team.

That being said, I think Cutler is a better talent than Campbell, but not 2 1st rounders better.

HTTR

[fansince62]

Another incontrovertible FACT is that neither of those things has anything whatsoever to do with what I asked.

One last incontrovertible FACT is that not really addressing the topic is usually par for the course with you lol :cool:...

ok...perhaps I need LARGE BLOCK LETTERS FOR THIS ONE:

- I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ORIGINAL INTENT. IT'S STUPID, CHILDISH, BALLOON PRICKING STUFF.

- I PREFER TO FOCUS ON ESSENTIALS AND NOT TRIVIALITIES.

no one appointed you or anyone else lord and master of the range/depth, relevance of a "topic". I frankly could care less what others think about relevance just as I could care less about something as hopelessly inane as whether other teams want Jason Campbel. Talk about something painfully stupid to talk about. What possible analytic import could that have to how the Redskins' value JC in the context of the system the Skins run and Zorn's interactions with JC?

if the whole idea is simply to score trivial he said/she said points...have at it. what was done once the point was "established"? nothing. what a waste of cyberspace.

[SkinsFan203]

I'd just like to throw something out there. Is Colt not ready to be a starter in the NFL?

:logo:

[pgitta]

2009 is Jason Campbell's desperate Thursday night American Idol "sing for his life" moment to try and avoid being voted off.

He knows it. Hell, everybody knows it.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd just like to throw something out there. Is Colt not ready to be a starter in the NFL?

:logo:

We couldn't get much worse production out of him than what we currently have, that's for sure, or else CB might as well hang it up now.

And for anyone to dismiss Brennan out of hand, or conversely, for anyone to say he's the second coming of Sonny, is spurious in the extreme as until he actually does take snaps in a full speed, regular season game, we won't know one way or the other exactly WHAT we have in the kid.

Hail.

[gonzalez_p]

I would not be surprised to find that the Skins have agreed to trade one of our QBs. Why else would they be interested in Leftwich. My guess is we’ve come to an agreement for a draft day trade.

[HawaiianTime]

We couldn't get much worse production out of him than what we currently have, that's for sure, or else CB might as well hang it up now.

And for anyone to dismiss Brennan out of hand, or conversely, for anyone to say he's the second coming of Sonny, is spurious in the extreme as until he actually does take snaps in a full speed, regular season game, we won't know one way or the other exactly WHAT we have in the kid.

Hail.

Hey, I can agree to that. I may have a lot of aith in Colt, but until he gets game time, we will never know how well he adjusts to the increased speed and savage hits. Aah savage hits.... Gotta love football.

[DCDiesel44]

The fact that he hasn't received a contract extension reflects the mindset of our FO. No one thinks that he's the quarterback for our future but it is true that he's the best quarterback that we have right now. So their playing it by ear and waiting to see if he has a break-out season because I guarantee unless he shows us something this year its curtains for him and rightfully so. I just hope that Zorn doesn't get fired if Campbell gets released. I think he is going to be a good coach and two years isn't enough time if you ask me.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree with the play calling. If Zorn had opened up with the play calling and was a lot less conservative, things may have been different for Campbell. I'm not sure why Zorn was reluctant to do this. Some can say he lacked confidence in Campbell, and some can say Zorn is inexperienced and had too many responsibilities. I'm not sure who is to blame, but I lean on blaming Zorn more only because it is his responsibility as the HC to adjust his play calling around the strengths of the team and get wins.

I remember after the Bengals Zorn said that he was worried about the pass protection and that is why he didn't call plays where Jason would take a deep drop.

[Ghost of]

I remember after the Bengals Zorn said that he was worried about the pass protection and that is why he didn't call plays where Jason would take a deep drop.

I remember that. But I also remember them talking about Jason only reading one side of the field. And that Zorn was asked about it and kind of deflected the question and moved on.

Why is that? Did Jason give away the secret? Now, I don't believe that he was literally only scanning one side of the field but maybe he read one half, then went to one option on the other side? I don't know.

But it would fit in with the idea that even before serious injuries that the team was suffering on offense as defenses started to figure this fact out and exploited the hell out of it.

[HawaiianTime]

I remember that. But I also remember them talking about Jason only reading one side of the field. And that Zorn was asked about it and kind of deflected the question and moved on.

Why is that? Did Jason give away the secret? Now, I don't believe that he was literally only scanning one side of the field but maybe he read one half, then went to one option on the other side? I don't know.

But it would fit in with the idea that even before serious injuries that the team was suffering on offense as defenses started to figure this fact out and exploited the hell out of it.

Do you think it was the right side? Is that why the big cry about getting a right tackle? Curious minds want to know.

[JRAB]

Do you think it was the right side? Is that why the big cry about getting a right tackle? Curious minds want to know.

I think it was one half of the field per play... meaning that on any given play Jason was supposed to look at a pre-determined side on that play and either throw it to the WR if open, and if not, throw it to a checkdown or throw it away.

That way the reads are kept to a minimum for Jason and the likelihood of an INT is minimized. Good idea except that it is much easier for teams to defend and severely limits your offense.

[lifeisgr8]

I think it was the half that was in front of him.

[Skins Zombie]

Little known fact... Zombie played QB for Garfield HS in Woodbridge VA. Even Zombie could read defense and at least scan to more than one option and/or side of the field... Its not the lack of physical tools, he has all the physical tools you could ever want in a QB..

Its the lack of fundamentals Its the poor footwork, slow and horrifying release, lack of ability to read and react to changes in the defense, inabilty to see anything on the field except the primary receiver, and the general lack of fire and emotion he displays.

However here is the odd part with Campbell.. he shows infrequent, brief flashes of all these things.. its like for just one moment you really think that he could be the strong and more than capable leader that can take us to the promised land...

but then he horrible overthrows a wide open receiver running down the sidelines all alone, takes a bad bad sack because of the slow slow release, or maybe holds that ball too casually and gets it swatted away, and you remember who this guy really is.

He is a mediocre and at times poor QB. He is a passage in time that we will all not remember 10 years from now (or sadly maybe we will) that in reality is a backup in this league with nominal talent to be a starter in the right situation.

Its too bad because I think he has the tools. I would like to sit all the coaches as he was coming up even from pop warner ball through college he had in a room. I would like to slap them all around for not teaching this kid any fundamentals and helping in the waste of what talent he does have.

Bad habits in mechanics when allowed to exist long enough are often unable to be unlearned. Jason's problems I really think go back to his early development as a QB.

~Z

[darrelgreenie]

I remember that. But I also remember them talking about Jason only reading one side of the field. And that Zorn was asked about it and kind of deflected the question and moved on.

Why is that? Did Jason give away the secret? Now, I don't believe that he was literally only scanning one side of the field but maybe he read one half, then went to one option on the other side? I don't know.

But it would fit in with the idea that even before serious injuries that the team was suffering on offense as defenses started to figure this fact out and exploited the hell out of it.

I don't recall Zorn saying anything like that.

The WCO doesn't limit the pass progressions to one side of the field.

Imo Zorn slipped up and told the media that JC locked on to a receiver

one time during the Giants game and the sports media ran with it; fans

parroted the sentiment until it became gospel that JC locked on to his receivers.

When that cleary wasn't the case.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/campbell-proving-to-be-an-apt-pupil-176745.html

"Other than that very first play of that very first game, his very first snap, he's improved himself after that. And I think that's been showing each week. He's been a consistent player, which I didn't know about and I don't think anybody knew about coming into it. He could be an up-and-down player, a guy that you can't trust because you don't know what he's going to do. And I think that we've been able to really trust him on the football field with the football."............................................................

[seahawks game]The tendency was something Zorn knew he would have to address with Campbell, but the former Seahawks quarterback smiled as he analyzed the young signal caller's performance during his news conference later in the day.

"Remember, at the beginning of the season I couldn't get him off that receiver and now he is off him, you know, five yards down the field. Boy, he's looking for number two and number three," the first-year head coach said, chuckling. "So we'll get him back on track. I think he's playing well, though."

Aikman and Jaws both have mentioned JCs ability to get to his second and third receivers:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b30ee8

^^@ the 2:04 Aikman mentions how JC went to his 3rd receiver to throw the TD pass to ARE

--also notice how much pressure JC was under from the start of the game

and how often he got hit

[Ghost of]

darrell,

I stopped using Jaworski as a source to boost a QB's reputation on this board when Ramsey left.

Consider it a lesson learned. (not that I will ever think Ramsey got a fair shake in 2005 and that when Brunell got his knee hit, he should have gone in, but it is what it is--Ramsey is still backing people up.)

From that point forward I will say that Jaworski is good at spotting flashes. I bet if I look at tape of Jaworski commenting on David Carr, you may see some similar things.

I just don't trust what he says to have long-term import to an evaluation of a QB anymore. Sorry.

[Gregpeck99]

Agree with Ghost ... Jaws is a notorious Bandwagon rider.