Obama's Radicalism Is Killing the Dow

[@DCGoldPants]

Why is everyone addressing this as a zero-sum proposition? It is perfectly possible to realize Obama is exacerbating the problem, without blaming him for the crisis he inherited or expecting him to have fixed it in five months. We get it: he inherited the problem. We get it: he won't fix it overnight. But neither of those statements absolves him from the criticism that his current rhetoric and tactics are making things worse, at least in the near term.

Because your current take seems to go hand in hand with absolving these industries that are falling apart. We have people with no moral compass there. Look at the stuff they were still doing after asking for bailout money. Its a mess.

Again, I don't think anybody knows the right answer on this. Its scary.

[Art Monk Fan]

Because your current take seems to go hand in hand with absolving these industries that are falling apart. We have people with no moral compass there. Look at the stuff they were still doing after asking for bailout money. Its a mess.

Again, I don't think anybody knows the right answer on this. Its scary.

I have no sympathy for the folks with their hands out, please don't read that into my criticism of the president. I think some of these companies should fail -- they are zombies that can't really be saved.

I am, however, a bit tired (yes, already) of Obama telling me that every initiative he brings forward is vital and that the sky will fall in if it isn't enacted immediately without debate. This **** is scary enough without political scare tactics on top of it.

[@DCGoldPants]

I have no sympathy for the folks with their hands out, please don't read that into my criticism of the president. I think some of these companies should fail -- they are zombies that can't really be saved.

I am, however, a bit tired (yes, already) of Obama telling me that every initiative he brings forward is vital and that the sky will fall in if it isn't enacted immediately without debate. This **** is scary enough without political scare tactics on top of it.

To be honest. Even in all this mess. I find it refreshing compared to the past admin as far as what they're saying when it comes to scare tactics.

[Predicto]

Bufird is correct - No one is absolutely sure what the right thing to do now is.

These Wall Street guys know what they want for themselves - they want to get their big fat bonuses back, and they want them now. Anything that doesn't immediately prop up the Dow for the short term is bad - bad for broker bonuses, that is.

[Midnight Judges]

So you're mad at Obama for cutting since they obviously start recessions?

I was merely disputing the claim that all we have to do is cut taxes to create jobs. If that were true, the job loss trend would not have started under Bush.

[deejaydana]

Bufird is correct - No one is absolutely sure what the right thing to do now is.

These Wall Street guys know what they want for themselves - they want to get their big fat bonuses back, and they want them now. Anything that doesn't immediately prop up the Dow for the short term is bad - bad for broker bonuses, that is.

Actually, I'll refute that just by degree (and not much): everyone should be in accordance that swift action on the financial markets/banks is paramount. We don't need Obama (or anyone) telling us at this moment in time that healthcare is going to bring down everything else if we don't address it right now. That is political sleight of hand at its worst. My God man, focus on the banks and you can at least bring some needed stability. The longer Geitner remains enigmatic we will have the rollercoaster on the Dow that we've seen these past few weeks. I don't give a rip about dumbing this down to partisan politics, who the hell cares, when we're all losing hard earned wealth.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Bufird is correct - No one is absolutely sure what the right thing to do now is.

These Wall Street guys know what they want for themselves - they want to get their big fat bonuses back, and they want them now. Anything that doesn't immediately prop up the Dow for the short term is bad - bad for broker bonuses, that is.

Here is the entire point, in a nutshell

President Obama inherited an unprecedented situation that nobody alive has expierenced.

The problem has been a serious lack of leadership by HIS financial folks. And yes DjTj has pointed out that a lot of undersecretary's are not in place at the Tresurary Dept.

But Rubin, Summers, Geithner, the so called dream team, Clinton era guys, have done nothing to restore faith to the market that the government has a plan that is moving in the right direction

We have Mr. Turbo Tax come out and do some half ass speech which says the plans that we already know of.

Bernake comes out and simply repeats it.

Tim comes back a few weeks later and repeats it again.

He hasn't come out and said "the government is announcing that we have bought X amount of bad CDOs from Y bank"

Investors are expecting leadership here, and thus far none is coming. The only direction from Washington has been higher taxes and a larger deficit, which is why Dems like Jim Cramer have totally turned against the President.

Until the financial dream team shows some leadership, the economy will remain rudderless and the bleeding won't stop

I am not asking for the President to make the DOW go back to 14k, that is absurd and he can't do that. I am asking him and his financial team to clearly demonstrate they are taking action that will stop the current blood letting

[Midnight Judges]

Why is everyone addressing this as a zero-sum proposition? It is perfectly possible to realize Obama is exacerbating the problem, without blaming him for the crisis he inherited or expecting him to have fixed it in five months. We get it: he inherited the problem. We get it: he won't fix it overnight. But neither of those statements absolves him from the criticism that his current rhetoric and tactics are making things worse, at least in the near term.

That's true. You can make the claim that Obama is exacerbating the enormous problems that he inherited. But I don't want to hear it from Republican hacks who want us to return to the failed Bush policies that they wrote.

[GibbsFactor]

The problem is that Obama's team isn't being radical enough with this method.

Just print out 60 trillion. Problem solved.

*I own lots of gold*

[SkinsHokieFan]

The problem is that Obama's team isn't being radical enough with this method.

Just print out 60 trillion. Problem solved.

*I own lots of gold*

OLS. That'd put an end to THIS crises quick

[Hubbs]

They ought to bring Bush back, he did such a wonderful job:stop::doh1:

I missed the part where someone suggested that because Bush was a total disaster, it logically follows that Obama can therefore not screw up at all.

Oh wait! One has an R after his name, and one has a D. Therefore, they are complete and total polar opposites in every sense. Now please excuse me, I have to go to another room so I can pass out from laughter for ten minutes or so.

[Predicto]

Actually, I'll refute that just by degree: everyone should be in accordance that swift action on the financial markets/banks is paramount. We don't need Obama (or anyone) telling us at this moment in time that healthcare is going to bring down everything else if we don't address it right now. That is political sleight of hand at its worst. My God man, focus on the banks and you can at least bring some needed stability. The longer Geitner remains enigmatic we will have the rollercoaster on the Dow that we've seen these past few weeks.

Sure, but there are plenty of people around here who are yelling that he is interfering with/propping up the banks too much.

Healthcare is a huge problem - IMO it is the biggest problem affecting the long term fiscal stability of the US Government. Social security is fixable, but Medicare is destroying the budget. It makes absolutely perfect sense to get working on that while you still have some sort of an electoral mandate.

There is a lot going on - the freeze in the credit markets is the immediate problem but the cost of healthcare is the long term elephant in the room.

[Hubbs]

I'm not thrilled with this Admin right now either.

But, I don't want to hear the WSJ or Wallstreet blame anybody for the current meltdown except themselves.

Like this issue was born 7 weeks ago.

Get real. These folks are crooks.

There's a big, big, big difference between "what caused this problem in the first place" and "things that could make it worse."

[ljs]

i love how we can blame obama for the current drops in the DOW, even though they are small compared to how badly the DOW dropped during the bush admin... really people?

the dow is at it's lowest point in the last 12 years.

I'm in no way defending Bush. He went against core Republican values in many ways. I am about at the point of hating all politicians, regardless of which side they are on.

Obama is no better. He isn't following his word on several issues, earmarks and lobbyists to start. Change my ass...he is the same as the rest, no better and hopefully no worse.

Here's my issue. We have millions of people tightenign their budge so they can survive. So hey, you don't get to have a Starbucks everyday right so you can feed the kids. I see earmarks as being that starbucks for the government. They seem to forge we are in one hell of a deficit, but hey, let's just spend money we don't have on all sorts of frivolous ****.

[Hubbs]

Will someone please explain to me the movement in the stock market from October 2007 through October 2008.

Thank you.

Sure.

The two biggest reasons for that movement - the pop of the housing bubble and Credit Default Swaps. The advent of the CDS allowed people to buy insurance - a whole lot of insurance - on things they didn't actually own. So if, say, one car blew up, twenty people could get paid the insurance on that car, even if none of them owned it. I have no idea why people thought this was a great idea, and I'm completely for the total elimination of the CDS in any form of existence. As far as I'm concerned, it has nothing to do with the free market. Nothing whatsoever.

[@DCGoldPants]

Are 100% certain already that this won't work in the long run?

[Duckus]

He hasn't come out and said "the government is announcing that we have bought X amount of bad CDOs from Y bank"

Investors are expecting leadership here, and thus far none is coming. The only direction from Washington has been higher taxes and a larger deficit, which is why Dems like Jim Cramer have totally turned against the President.

Until the financial dream team shows some leadership, the economy will remain rudderless and the bleeding won't stop

I am not asking for the President to make the DOW go back to 14k, that is absurd and he can't do that. I am asking him and his financial team to clearly demonstrate they are taking action that will stop the current blood letting

Good points. Why do you think this hasn't happened honestly? Personally, I think those people you listed are capable of doing this and laying down the specifics. I am sure they know that's what the market wants to hear. I am a little lost as to why it is not happening at all.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Sure.

The two biggest reasons for that movement - the pop of the housing bubble and Credit Default Swaps. The advent of the CDS allowed people to buy insurance - a whole lot of insurance - on things they didn't actually own. So if, say, one car blew up, twenty people could get paid the insurance on that car, even if none of them owned it. I have no idea why people thought this was a great idea, and I'm completely for the total elimination of the CDS in any form of existence. As far as I'm concerned, it has nothing to do with the free market. Nothing whatsoever.

I blame educated MBAs and finance majors, just as Krauthmarr said in his Wapo Op/ed today

Too many greedy people who happened to be too smart for their own good

[SkinsHokieFan]

Good points. Why do you think this hasn't happened honestly? Personally, I think those people you listed are capable of doing this and laying down the specifics. I am sure they know that's what the market wants to hear. I am a little lost as to why it is not happening at all.

Honestly I have no clue.

The cynic in me says the administration is allowing a major crises to be created to be able to lay the ground work for the type of "change" they really want. FDR type change

The realist in me says they don't know what to do yet, and no matter what they do, it isn't going to help

[Hubbs]

Your philosphy performed worse. Under Bush's tax cuts we brought on this recession, the trillion dollar deficit, the 6000 point drop in the DOW, and the unemployment trend.

Aaaaand there's the number one problem here - the assumption that disagreeing with Obama is agreeing with Bush.

I'm gonna suggest something so straight-jacket crazy that most people probably shouldn't try to wrap their heads around it, because it will make their brains explode - maybe, just maybe, it's possible to disagree with both Bush and Obama.

I know, I know. Mind****.

[deejaydana]

Sure, but there are plenty of people around here who are yelling that he is interfering with/propping up the banks too much.

Healthcare is a huge problem - IMO it is the biggest problem affecting the long term fiscal stability of the US Government. Social security is fixable, but Medicare is destroying the budget. It makes absolutely perfect sense to get working on that while you still have some sort of an electoral mandate.

There is a lot going on - the freeze in the credit markets is the immediate problem but the cost of healthcare is the long term elephant in the room.

I'm not in disagreement with you. Entitlement programs are BY FAR the ticking time bomb that this country has to face. They will come knock on our door soon enough but any sane person, one with 'skin in the game,' understands that priority #1 right now is providing stability to the banks. Obama still has plenty of time on his mandate of goodwill but NONE is more important at this moment in time. Think of it this way, he's trying (to his credit) to address problemmatic issues that have bedeviled the past oh, 8 Presidents (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Education, Alt Fuels). None of these will be resolved quickly, right? Right. Address investor confidence first, it's the most pressing issue. I think we agree, we're just using slightly different words.

[Hunter_R]

[Hubbs]

I blame educated MBAs and finance majors, just as Krauthmarr said in his Wapo Op/ed today

Too many greedy people who happened to be too smart for their own good

Do you realize that "greed" is simply a synonym for "doing what you think will make the most money," which is what our entire economic system has been based on for the past 200 years?

Not that I'm annoyed that a stupid, incorrect word with bad connotations has replaced the entire methodology of capitalism or anything.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I'm going to blame someone that people normally dont blame - the working class....maybe they should work harder.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

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