BR:Colt Brennan: The Future of the Washington Redskins...Jason Campbell: The Past

[LizKauai]

Re Colt's college stats. Remember that he usually played 3 quarters a game. They would be even more "inflated" had the backups not gone in for Q4.

Also look at his receiving corps. Davone Bess emerged the healthiest out of the draft and even he was just a free agent when Miami picked him up. When they played for Hawaii, Colt's receivers were ALL hot and every time he got a compliment, he always deferred attention pointed at himself to his receivers and his team.

Colt will fire up a team and knows how to win. He knows that it takes a TEAM to win. His love for the game and his love for his fellow players is a contagious thing. Look at us old time fans- we are still alive with that love. And we want to see the Redskins light it up on the field next season- no matter who the QB is.

HAIL!

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Let's take "every level." Because that's just stupid.

Pop Warner: No statistics to compare.

HS: Colt played behind Matt Leinhart, started after he graduated. We can extrapolate that he didn't have a fantastic HS career because he was a walk on at the University of Colorado. I can't find anything about what JC did in HS. But whatever it was, it lead to him being recruited by Auburn.

College: Colt went to Hawaii. Well, ok, in fairness, he did go to the University of Colorado until he got kicked off the team. He set every passing record that exists in NCAA while playing in the run and shoot system at Hawaii, against pretty terrible competition most of the time.

JC went to Auburn, was the starting QB for 4 years. Won 2 bowl games, was the MVP of both of them, as well as the MVP of the SEC Championship game. Auburn went undefeated in the SEC in 2004, JC's senior year.

Ok, as far as stats are concerned, Brennan has the edge. As far as winning at a major college program is concerned, and getting MVP awards in major bowl games, it's not even close.

PRO: Brennan hasn't been active for 1 actual game in the pros, couldn't unseat Todd Collins for the #2 job, let alone compete for the #1. I would grade that as an "incomplete."

If we're comparing pre-seasons, let's just talk about how AWSEOME Danny Woe-full looked in Osaka in 2002 to see how much pre-season actually matters.

None of this is to say that Colt would/would not be better than JC if given the opportunity. Who knows? We'll see. But the comment above was just laughable.

Quite honestly to compare JC to any reasonable QB is what becomes laughable, on one hand Colt is ridiculed because he played on what would be an inferior team against inferior competition, but JC is supposed to be better because he played on a dominant team against inferior competition, I wonder which is harder? Sooner rather than later every one will realize JC is not an NFL QB, and once it happens the realization will set in on his past 4 years. Bottom line there is no comparison that is favorable for JC against Colt, the mere thought that some other QB couldn't out play JC is a joke in itself, I think Colt would have to be trying to fail not to out play JC. Does that make Colt J.Montana? No, it's more of an indictment on how bad JC is. JC couldn't carry Colt's jock in college and he wont in the NFL.

Stat wise Brennan has an edge? Let's not down play that comparison.

How many QB's in big time schools have won bowl games, and went on to do nothing in the NFL, or didn't even get drafted?

What it boils down to is this, has any one actually seen the type of QB you are referencing with his college accolades at the pro level?

If JC was starting for the Boy's, and putting up the same numbers, I wonder what kind of objective opinion all the JC supporters would have? That would be much closer to reality for his talent level.

[Oldfan]

Pro Bowl QB's finish their 1st year starting 2-5.

Pro Bowl QB's finish their 2nd year starting with a 1-5 streak.

Pro Bowl QB's finish their 3rd year starting with a 2-6 streak.

5-16 to end his 3 years as starter on a team that made the playoffs every year he didn't finish the year as the starting QB. Leading your team at a far worse W/L percentage than other QB's on the same team during the same period is the sign of a great QB.

His W/L percentage against teams that finished above .500 are of the charts as well.

If they took out player voting and coaching voting for the Pro Bowl, Dan's marketing machine and the loyalty of the fan base might get him a spot. I even voted for him multiple times last year. Otherwise, JC would have to hope for 5 or 6 NFC QB's to take a pass on the Pro Bowl to earn a spot legitimately.

You weaken your argument when you offer meaningless stats. Why would a young QB weaken during a season? Unless you can come up with an explanation that makes sense, the most likely answer for your stat is CHANCE, a random variation.

As for Jason's wins against winning teams, I'd be willing to bet that there isn't a QB in the league with more than 32 starts who has more wins against winning teams than he has against losing teams.

The Skins are 9-8 against teams above .500 when he doesn't start since he's been on the team.

Why don't you just say that Collins outplayed Jason in Al's scheme rather than turn the fact into another useless stat?

[S.T.real,lights,out]

It's hard to inflate 70% completion.

Yeah, Gotta say im with you!!!

[Kdiggy]

I dont know why so many people are on Colts bandwagon, he is not a starting NFL QB. He has YEARS to develop. Just because he was in Hawaii, and broke some records. Thats all they did was pass. Those records dont mean he can play with the big guys.

[Mahons21]

I dont know why so many people are on Colts bandwagon, he is not a starting NFL QB. He has YEARS to develop. Just because he was in Hawaii, and broke some records. Thats all they did was pass. Those records dont mean he can play with the big guys.

-Campbell isn't a nfl qb either.

-We have no idea how long he has to develop, especially under a great qb coach like Jim Zorn.

-I don't think his records impress people, rather it was his accuracy and ability to lead a team.

-We don't yet know if he can play with the big guys, but most of know Campbell cannot, so why not give the next guy a shot? Its not like Collins is the future. I explained all my feelings in detail above I wish a Campbell supported would reply.

[wilco_holland]

-Campbell isn't a nfl qb either.

-We have no idea how long he has to develop, especially under a great qb coach like Jim Zorn.

-I don't think his records impress people, rather it was his accuracy and ability to lead a team.

-We don't yet know if he can play with the big guys, but most of know Campbell cannot, so why not give the next guy a shot? Its not like Collins is the future. I explained all my feelings in detail above I wish a Campbell supported would reply.

Do ya realy think Brennan gives us a better shot at winning then Campbell? Come on man......that's just qrazy.

I mean if he would be the great QB as a lot of people think he is, why wans't he a higer draft pick? It wasn't like Brady a player who did have mush playing time or something like that.

It makes no sence.

I am so done whit this ******* Brennan is the next great QB stuff, people juse ya brain.

[Mahons21]

I would advise you to do the same wilco.. If you actually took the time to correctly read my post you would have read that I don't know whether Colt will be better than Campbell... and guess what neither do you, we haven't seen him play in the NFL.

-Where someone is drafted isn't really a good indicator either of how they will do in the NFL, look at our draft last year for evidence. There might be a general trend, but is not a definite indicator.

-And we know Campbell can't lead us to the promise land with out an all-pro team surrounding him, so why not give up the hope on the project and move on to the next project.

-Also if you looked at my previous post in this thread I have stated how I don't have much hope for Colt either, but at this point we have to beginning starting ways with Campbell.

[Santana_Fan]

I would advise you to do the same wilco.. If you actually took the time to correctly read my post you would have read that I don't know whether Colt will be better than Campbell... and guess what neither do you, we haven't seen him play in the NFL.

-Where someone is drafted isn't really a good indicator either of how they will do in the NFL, look at our draft last year for evidence. There might be a general trend, but is not a definite indicator.

-And we know Campbell can't lead us to the promise land with out an all-pro team surrounding him, so why not give up the hope on the project and move on to the next project.

-Also if you looked at my previous post in this thread I have stated how I don't have much hope for Colt either, but at this point we have to beginning starting ways with Campbell.

People do NOT realize, that Campbell has not been in the same system for 2 years. He has played ONE full season in one system so far, now everybody looks at him as a throwaway. How would you feel being replaced by someone at your job, when you weren't fully able to get a grasp on your work yet? Only ONE full year in ONE system. So yes, let's just replace Campbell now, and hit the same downward spiral as we usually do, and not stick with anything...I mean, because it HAS brought us so much success lately. We have to be the #1 team in the NFL with changes. From coaches to coordinators, to players (especially QB's). It's almost funny now. Notice the best teams in the league have consistency. I think "some" people should give him an extra season. Colt may be good, he may not be, but I think fans should put themselves in Jason's shoes for a second...how would you feel being thrown out of your work, and replaced after not even playing two full seasons in ONE system.

Do you NOT realize how hard it is for a player to have 8 different coordinators? Especially when you're playing the most criticized/important position on the field. The way fans criticize Campbell, I'm surprised he has been as successful as he has so far. If you go to NFL.com, and check the videos of only Campbell, he has kept us in plenty of drives alone with his feet, when nothing else was there.

[Pounds]

Actually, they're separated by 2 years.

More like a year-and-a-half, but who's counting, right...

Even so, I still don't see how that makes Colt anymore representative of the future than Jason.

[Habib1852]

When is it going to stop...Campbell could take us to the super bowl and people would still say put Brennan in! Campbell is our man just like Obama is our president! Support them!

[Santana_Fan]

When is it going to stop...Campbell could take us to the super bowl and people would still say put Brennan in! Campbell is our man just like Obama is our president! Support them!

They're too amazed with Brennan's 1000000000 td's in college.

[eljeasel]

-And we know Campbell can't lead us to the promise land with out an all-pro team surrounding him, so why not give up the hope on the project and move on to the next project.

Until the basic problems are fixed with this roster, we arent going anywhere with anyone short of a legendary QB.

• Old lines
  
• poor depth nearly everywhere
  
• defense that cant create pressure or turnovers
  
• A RZ target not named Cooley
  
• inconsistent QB play
  
• a WR threat not named Moss
  

and not necessarily in that order. Im sure you could disagree with some on that list or add your own. For me, thats the order.

If you believe the QB hype then you find your "Franchise QB" and the rest magically falls into place. I on the other hand have seen many supposedly great QBs fall on their face when put up against better teams if they didnt have backup. I firmly believe the roster as is will not make it anywhere till these issues are addressed

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

More like a year-and-a-half, but who's counting, right...

Even so, I still don't see how that makes Colt anymore representative of the future than Jason.

It's the not the age. It's the possibility of what Colt potentially brings to the table.:2cents:

[Vicious]

if Colt Brennan was the starter these guys from hawaii would actually care who Jon Jansen is.

[Mahons21]

Since it appears none of you read my previous post here it is again:

I think it call comes down to one simple fact: Jason Campbell will NEVER be a franchise qb in the NFL, NEVER.

Can he win with all all pro supporting cast? Yes. Almost every qb in the NFL can besides Jake Delhomme.

But right now the franchise, whether Danny Boy likes it or not, is in a state of rebuilding.

So do you guys think it would be easier, to keep Campbell, and get an all pro o-line, a defense that scores points, receivers that are 10 feet tall and never drop passes.

OR.... take advantage of the new rules in the NFL, which give offenses a (qb's in particular) a distinct advantage, and try to find a franchise qb for the team.

-To make my point more clear, in today's NFL, it is far easier to rebuild at team starting with a franchise qb, then it is to have a descent qb and try to build an all-pro team around them.

I have nothing wrong with Campbell, but anyone here who thinks this guy can be a franchise qb, that makes plays on a consistent basis for his team, is drunk on the kool aid. Campbell is a nice, hard working, and physically gifted human being, but he will not be a franchise.

Will Colt be? Who knows, if I had to predict now I'd say probably not, precisely why we need to end this Campbell project sooner than later.

I know many will disagree with my point of view, and claim football all starts and ends in the trenches, which I completely agree with. But in light of recent rule changes, and the general direction football is heading (away from a hard nosed grind it out battle, into a fast paced high-flying passing game). I really believe it would be in the Redskins best wishes, to find a qb, and then build a team around him. Rather than trying to build an all pro o-line/d-line, secondary that scores off turnovers, receivers that run perfect routes and never drop the ball, and a top 5 rb. Especially in the salary cap era, it makes much more sense to have a high paid qb, with role players surrounding him, then to try and and have an all-pro team to pay, and have a role playing qb without a high priced contract. I fear I may have gotten to wordy again, to make my point more clear, it is easier for a team to stay away from cap hell, if you have a franchise qb, because you don't have to pay for all pro-lines, premier WR's, and a top 5 rb.

[Mahons21]

Its like some of you guys think in a salary cap era you can have all-pro team, this just isn't possible. You can't have a secondary of first rounders, a strong pass rush, a dominant o-line, a good receiving duo, a top 5 rb, and so on.... Rather you get key players at key positions i.e. qb, mlb, fs, lt.... and fill in role positions for the other spots.

and btw

1.) Our o-line isn't that bad (poor qb play makes an o-line look worst) (Portis declined as well because teams stacked the box)

2.) Last two times Campbell hasn't been our qb, ie Brunnell and Collins we seemed to have a lot more redzone targets with a similar team (Sellers a good example)

3.) You can't expect to have a top 5 rb two premier WR's, and multiple redzone options please name me one team that does? Maybe there could be an argument for the Boys but look how well that has worked out for them.

[herb mul-key]

When people talk about great NFL QB's - they talk about them having "IT". "IT" meaning pocket presence, a cool head and the ability to quickly read defenses and check through their progressions...this is what Brady, Montana, and at times, even guys like Eli & Big Ben have. Knowing when to dump off a sort pass vs. when to take the shot downfield. IMO, while Brennan needs lots of work, he showed signs of potentially having these traits in preseason last year.

My problem with JC is that to me, it's obvious that he doesn't have "IT". What I'd like to see is an open competition at QB in training camp...and let the best guy be the starter. I do agree with the previous posters who think that an "annointment" of JC as the 2009 starter is basically asking for another 8-8 year.

Let's see what Colt can do - worse thing that can happen is it may motivate JC.

this is where I stand pretty much

[Mahons21]

People do NOT realize, that Campbell has not been in the same system for 2 years. He has played ONE full season in one system so far, now everybody looks at him as a throwaway. How would you feel being replaced by someone at your job, when you weren't fully able to get a grasp on your work yet? Only ONE full year in ONE system. So yes, let's just replace Campbell now, and hit the same downward spiral as we usually do, and not stick with anything...I mean, because it HAS brought us so much success lately. We have to be the #1 team in the NFL with changes. From coaches to coordinators, to players (especially QB's). It's almost funny now. Notice the best teams in the league have consistency. I think "some" people should give him an extra season. Colt may be good, he may not be, but I think fans should put themselves in Jason's shoes for a second...how would you feel being thrown out of your work, and replaced after not even playing two full seasons in ONE system.

Do you NOT realize how hard it is for a player to have 8 different coordinators? Especially when you're playing the most criticized/important position on the field. The way fans criticize Campbell, I'm surprised he has been as successful as he has so far. If you go to NFL.com, and check the videos of only Campbell, he has kept us in plenty of drives alone with his feet, when nothing else was there.

-Campbell has shown he can't succeed in multiple systems(for the same reasons, inaccuracy, slow to go through reads, and little to no touch on his passes), doesn't this prove to you he can't handle the NFL? If I was paid millions of dollars I would hope after a year I had a grasp on what my job entitles, its not like Matt Ryan, or Flacco did that...

-You think Campbell receives too much criticism, is that a joke? Try being D Mac a qb who has won the division for his team year in and out (without any real receivers besides TO), and gets benched but Campbell doesn't. Try being Eli in NY(who has won a SB), try being Derek Anderson(who has lead his team to a winning record) in CLE who was essentially benched by his fan base.

-Campbell receives way too many excuses... and I can already see another one coming next year. Hypothetical situation Portis is injured, but we get a good o-line and the receivers the step up... everyone is going to claim we didn't have a running game to support Campbell, theyll always be a reason for his inefficient play.

[Santana_Fan]

-Campbell has shown he can't succeed in multiple systems(for the same reasons, inaccuracy, slow to go through reads, and little to no touch on his passes), doesn't this prove to you he can't handle the NFL? If I was paid millions of dollars I would hope after a year I had a grasp on what my job entitles, its not like Matt Ryan, or Flacco did that...

-You think Campbell receives too much criticism, is that a joke? Try being D Mac a qb who has won the division for his team year in and out (without any real receivers besides TO), and gets benched but Campbell doesn't. Try being Eli in NY(who has won a SB), try being Derek Anderson(who has lead his team to a winning record) in CLE who was essentially benched by his fan base.

-Campbell receives way too many excuses... and I can already see another one coming next year. Hypothetical situation Portis is injured, but we get a good o-line and the receivers the step up... everyone is going to claim we didn't have a running game to support Campbell, theyll always be a reason for his inefficient play.

My friend is a Jets fan, who tells me a lot, that sooner or later this situation will end up like the Pennington and Clemens situation. Personally, I hope it does. What would a QB with a quick release do, if the receivers get no separation? Remember, coaches have access to footage/film, that we don't. Moss is always double-teamed, the only other threat we have is Cooley, and Randle El is not a #2. A lot of the Campbell criticism is stupid. If he went out and threw picks like Romo sits to pee or Favre, they'd be ready to hang him. When he doesn't make mistakes, he still gets criticism. Look at the stats, Campbell has improved in every category each year. Notice Eli has been in the SAME system, and notice Donovan has been in the same system. McNabb plays in Philly, I mean of course. How much would you be willing to bet, that if we were to win the Superbowl next year, Campbell will receive absolutely NONE of the credit? I'm done though, because it is pointless. Nobody will change their opinion because of somebody else's anyway. We'll all see next season.

[Lavarleap56]

They're too amazed with Brennan's 1000000000 td's in college.

im not amazed with his college tds ar all. Brennan has alot of the qualities that i believe this team would florish with. Brennan already does more activities with guys on the team than JC has his whole time indc. Moss Lives about 7 doors down from JC and has for three seasons and still no getting together in the offseason to work with eachother. Brennan has agreat relationship with the guys from going out with the oline,shark diving with cp, fishing with the dl ect . Brennann is a gunslinger and he would make mistakes but i think he would get us over that 21 ppg that we cant break with jc.

[commyderm2]

It really irritates me when people try to criticize Brennan because of the college offense he played in, so I'd like to follow up on this quote from the first poster of the Bleacher article discussion who is influenced by Jaws just a little too much:

"Colt’s numbers in college are seriously inflated by June Jones high octane offense that he ran. If you pass every down then your numbers can only go up."

Here's what gets me ~

This is a fact. With 8 years of both college and NFL careers combined, Campbell has 347 more pass attempts than Brennan has. Although he has 347 more pass attempts than Brennan, he has 51 less TD passes than Brennan does.

Brennan sells himself ~ You following me camera guy?

Brennan also didn't play in the SEC.. account for that!

[Mahons21]

My friend is a Jets fan, who tells me a lot, that sooner or later this situation will end up like the Pennington and Clemens situation. Personally, I hope it does. What would a QB with a quick release do, if the receivers get no separation? Remember, coaches have access to footage/film, that we don't. Moss is always double-teamed, the only other threat we have is Cooley, and Randle El is not a #2. A lot of the Campbell criticism is stupid. If he went out and threw picks like Romo sits to pee or Favre, they'd be ready to hang him. When he doesn't make mistakes, he still gets criticism. Look at the stats, Campbell has improved in every category each year. Notice Eli has been in the SAME system, and notice Donovan has been in the same system. McNabb plays in Philly, I mean of course. How much would you be willing to bet, that if we were to win the Superbowl next year, Campbell will receive absolutely NONE of the credit? I'm done though, because it is pointless. Nobody will change their opinion because of somebody else's anyway. We'll all see next season.

-There is no similarities between trading away a descent qb for a retired qb, and letting go of a failed project for hope of a young future qb. Other than the change of qb, the two circumstances are entirely differenent.

-Eli and Donovan have been in the same system so have the majority of NFL qb's that really isn't proving much, yet you neglect to note Macnabb sure as hell didn't have the receiving core we do now and he still made it far into the playoffson numerous occaccions

-And we won't make it to the Superbowl with Campbell, will be lucky to have a winning record with him.

-Also I enjoyed your complete neglect of my earlier post....

Just let me get this straight once and for all? For campbell to succeed we need to...

1) Draft extremely well on both lines, (hoping they all work out)

2) Have one of our rookie receivers break out (without asking for a new contract)

3) Retain a top 5 rb

4) Retain a secondary of first rounders

5) Same systems for multiple years

6) No criticism from fans

-This situation just doesn't seem very likely for me... but I guess you guys think its easier to make an all-pro team than it is to find a franchise qb.

[Ingtar]

Brennan also didn't play in the SEC.. account for that!

I am honestly perplexed as to why this matters so much. Sure Jason played in the SEC, but has anyone ever looked at his stats per game? He sure never lit up the SEC. He only had one 300+ yard game in his collegiate career (against Tennessee who had a horribly depleted secondary IIRC) and only averaged 207.6 yds/game his senior year. His junior year he averaged 174.4 yds/game. This was with two first round running backs on the team.

[Santana_Fan]

-There is no similarities between trading away a descent qb for a retired qb, and letting go of a failed project for hope of a young future qb. Other than the change of qb, the two circumstances are entirely differenent.

-Eli and Donovan have been in the same system so have the majority of NFL qb's that really isn't proving much, yet you neglect to note Macnabb sure as hell didn't have the receiving core we do now and he still made it far into the playoffson numerous occaccions

-And we won't make it to the Superbowl with Campbell, will be lucky to have a winning record with him.

-Also I enjoyed your complete neglect of my earlier post....

Just let me get this straight once and for all? For campbell to succeed we need to...

1) Draft extremely well on both lines, (hoping they all work out)

2) Have one of our rookie receivers break out (without asking for a new contract)

3) Retain a top 5 rb

4) Retain a secondary of first rounders

5) Same systems for multiple years

6) No criticism from fans

-This situation just doesn't seem very likely for me... but I guess you guys think its easier to make an all-pro team than it is to find a franchise qb.

First, I was speaking of how they benched Pennington, and played Clemens. Now Pennington is on another team playing better than any of the Jets' QBs. You speak of McNabb making it to the playoffs, but what has he done in the playoffs? What you say about Eli is relevant, because the only thing that matters is winning a Superbowl. That'd be like saying Romo sits to pee made it to the playoffs...so? You're right, McNabb didn't have receivers, but he didn't have to learn a new system every other year. Brady didn't have receivers either, he won 3 Superbowls. Where did anybody say anything about having a secondary of first rounders?

Answer this, if the Giants' D-Line wasn't all over Tom Brady in the Superbowl, do you think the Patriots would have still lost? Funny how he won 18 games straight, and then lost in the Superbowl when his line broke down. Wow, you can actually see that we won't win a Superbowl with Campbell? I'd like to know who we'll win a Superbowl with, and when, if you can tell the future. It's all about the line. I'm not saying everything is on the line, because Jason hesitates too, BUT, everybody needs a line that can protect.