BR:Colt Brennan: The Future of the Washington Redskins...Jason Campbell: The Past

[RocketCitySkins]

Seems right to be. Werent we also one of the worst teams in terms of 3 and outs? Having a high amount of 3 and outs puts a lot more stress on the defense. Our horrid PF category also put more stress on our defense to win games.

Actually, I remember reading that we kept our offense on the field longer than the defense in 2008. Not by much, though. Something like 31 mintues for the offense and 29 minutes for the defense.

[Oldfan]

-No, someone said what our defense was ranked according to ypg, I stated that ppg is a better stat indicator, and if you like a teams according to ppg the defenses are ranked quite accurately in my opinion. You however took it upon yourself to discredit my information, and say people who know about football stats don't use ppg.

We were debating the quality of our defense and you chose to use a bogus stat. That's why I "took it upon myself" to correct you. That's what we do here in these threads, isn't it?

-Looking at your website, it apears PHI is apparently a better D than TEN, as is MIN. And TB has a better D than CHI, and NYG? If I am reading this correctly credibility for this group stats is slowly going down the hill for me...

Luckily for them, their credibility doesn't depend upon your agreement or mine. Their rankings for the Skins, #11 for the defense and #15 for the offense, accurately reflects my judgment based on what I saw on the field.

-Sorry you can't credit the offense for the field position they give you but, its a defensive stat, it measures how many points the DEFENSE is allowing while they are on the field.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I haven't tried to isolate any specific element to be measured (other than takeaways) because there are a number of them.

-The same type of argument can be made against almost every stat, because football is a team game, and stats can't show you every aspect. Thats why there is always more to the story and why I in general don't like the use of stats.

We agree on this, but I will add that if a stat is used, it should be one that has a sound, rational basis. Ranking defenses and offenses on yardage or points does not.

[Oldfan]

-No where did I ever say that?

I quoted the remark I was asking you to clarify.

-Many other qb's have led multiple game winning drives, with less talent surrounding them.

Of course, but you have no idea how many.

[Oldfan]

Your post was an excellent summary of the turnover situation, Pounds.

*As an aside, Jim Schwartz, coach of the Detroit Lions was quoted, in the New York Times, as saying that his own research has shown that fumbles are a "random occurrence" and that moreover a good team is as likely to fumble as a bad one is. Suffice it to say that the same cannot be said of INTs.

[/size]

I didn't read Schwartz's quote on this. He is a favorite of the stats guys at footballoutsiders.com -- I think they still have an old interview with him posted.

I have read of studies showing that fumbles are random and others saying that fumble recoveries are random. I recall a Belichick quote agreeing with the way you (and Schwartz) have it, though.

[Pounds]

I didn't read Schwartz's quote on this. He is a favorite of the stats guys at footballoutsiders.com -- I think they still have an old interview with him posted.

I have read of studies showing that fumbles are random and others saying that fumble recoveries are random. I recall a Belichick quote agreeing with the way you (and Schwartz) have it, though.

Here is a snippet of the article:

“Fumbles are a random occurrence,” Schwartz said he told Belichick. “Being able to get interceptions or not throw interceptions has a high correlation with good teams. But over the course of a year, good teams don’t fumble any more or less than bad teams. Bill didn’t agree. He said, ‘No, good teams don’t fumble the ball.’ But actually, they fumble just as often as bad teams.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/sports/football/23titans.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

I hope not to hijack, but this seems relevant, or at least interesting. The Lions seem to have themselves a fantastic coach.

[BAFGA]

[Mahons21]

No Oldfan their credibility doesn't rest either of our opinion's. However why you have so much faith in a rating system that ranks PHI as the third best defense is beyond me.. I know they have a good D but third best? Ill take a Tenn D over a PHI D any day of the week and I think most would agree.

[LizKauai]

Well, nice fish!

Bottom line, imho - Pro sports are more entertainment than anything. Pure sports are more like college and Olympic games. If I am going to be "entertained" by sports, a "prevent offense" is not what I want to see. Protecting the ball, field position and balanced time management is not as interesting as big plays, unexpected plays, close games with big scores and talented players on both sides of the field showing their stuff.

If I want to watch finesse, I will watch Tiger Woods and crew light it up on the golf course.

HAIL!

[KokoMike]

What I do love about these discussions is that the differences between Campbell and Brennan are so diverse. We could surely agree on some strengths and weaknesses. We could surely agree on some advantages.

Here are a just a couple, subject to destruction by either side:

Size: Campbell

Creativity: Brennan

[eljeasel]

Game winning drives. It's all up to the QB. It's on his shoulders. The scheme, the playcalling, the performances of his ten teammates -- none of it matters. It's all on the QB.

Do I understand you correctly?

Didnt you get the memo? Turns out the "Ultimate Team Game" is really just a platform for QBs to make late game winning drives. Nothing else is relevant.

[KokoMike]

Well, nice fish!

Bottom line, imho - Pro sports are more entertainment than anything. Pure sports are more like college and Olympic games. If I am going to be "entertained" by sports, a "prevent offense" is not what I want to see. Protecting the ball, field position and balanced time management is not as interesting as big plays, unexpected plays, close games with big scores and talented players on both sides of the field showing their stuff.

If I want to watch finesse, I will watch Tiger Woods and crew light it up on the golf course.

HAIL!

Actually, Liz, as a Redskin season ticket holder since 1978, I want it all. Finesse when needed, brutal force when necessary. Victory at all costs...really as long as people can live normal lives later in life.

In 1985, on Monday night in Washington against the Giants, in the Game that Joe Theisman has his leg broken by Lawrence Taylor, the Redskins won 23-21 and everybody went home happy.

Theisman's career was over. He's ok today. An unproven QB came in.

We sent on to win most of the remaining games that year. The following year we went 12-4 and went to the conference final. In 1987, we went 11-4 and went on to win the Super Bowl.

That year, we had Ed Rubbert as QB, followed by Jay Shroeder, and then followed by Doug Williams.

It was grand Redskins football: championship football. it is the great cure.

That is why I want Colt Brennan to get his best shot. it will be up to him to take it to the next level. No excuses. He'll have to perform. I talked with him during the Pro Bowl festivities. He understands that clearly and he fully intends to bring success to the Washington Redskins.

Jason has had plenty of shots and he will get more. I'm done with the excuses for his performance, however.