BR:Colt Brennan: The Future of the Washington Redskins...Jason Campbell: The Past

[Oldfan]

-And OLDFAN if you care to elaborate I would offer support of my opinion.

I can't elaborate on anything, but I'll try to clarify my question. This is what you said.

This situation just doesn't seem very likely for me... but I guess you guys think its easier to make an all-pro team than it is to find a franchise qb.

Why would you guess that your opponents think it's easier to put together and all-pro-team to support Campbell? It seems more likely that the posters who oppose you would disagree with you that Campbell needs an all-pro support team to succeed in this era of parity in today's NFL.

[Capt Rich Fla]

JC isn't playing in the SEC anymore either. Take that into account.

[Santana_Fan]

JC isn't playing in the SEC anymore either. Take that into account.

True.

[Mahons21]

First, I was speaking of how they benched Pennington, and played Clemens. Now Pennington is on another team playing better than any of the Jets' QBs. You speak of McNabb making it to the playoffs, but what has he done in the playoffs? What you say about Eli is relevant, because the only thing that matters is winning a Superbowl. That'd be like saying Romo sits to pee made it to the playoffs...so? You're right, McNabb didn't have a receivers, but he didn't have to learn a new system every other year. Brady didn't have receivers either, he won 3 Superbowls. Where did anybody say anything about having a secondary of first rounders?

Answer this, if the Giants' D-Line wasn't all over Tom Brady in the Superbowl, do you think the Patriots would have still lost? Funny how he won 18 games straight, and then lost in the Superbowl when his line broke down. Wow, you can actually see that we won't win a Superbowl with Campbell? I'd like to know who we'll win a Superbowl with, and when, if you can tell the future. It's all about the line. I'm not saying everything is on the line, because Jason hesitates too, BUT, everybody needs a line that can protect.

-We have a secondary of first rounders and a top 5 RB, I doubt we can retain Hall/Rogers/Landry/Portis all the while revamping our o/d-line and receiving core.

-Giants won that game because of possibly the craziest catch in NFL history, the Patriots were ahead and poised for victory please don't tell me you thought that game was anything but a little bit of luck going one way.(Not to discredit there SB win they did win it all they have the Trophy, but cmon)

-I can't predict the future but I can go by trends in history; when was the last time a qb when from tied in lowest TD's one season to a Superbowl winner the next? Guess what the answer is...

-Our line did protect, Jason inabilities just made them look worst. Kinda like how NE's line gave up like 14 sacks or something crazy with Brady but like 40 sacks this season.(Those aren't the exact #'s) But see how a qb's play can make a line look better/worst

-And I'm not saying everything is on Jason, but I believe we need to find a franchise QB. Jason is not a franchise qb. Anyone who thinks so please tell me why...

And OLDFAN if you care to elaborate I would offer support of my opinion.

[Emoshag]

Can you name a single offensive starter besides Brennan (and maybe Bess) from that Warriors team? Now, can you name any offensive starters for that Auburn team? I already named the two I know and I watched a handful of the Hawaii games. I didn't watch a single Auburn game and I know he had two top 5 running backs behind him (Ronnie Brown went second overall and Carnell Williams went 5th overall.... oh, and the very next year the left tackle went in the second round and his three WRs all went in the 6-7 rounds).

The whole college comparison thing is just idiotic at this point. Hell, even NFL coaches/players/analysts make comments that the regular season and post season in the NFL are completely independent. And everyone always talks about NCAA and conferences and all that.... and its just useless at the pro level.

I watched JC and Brennan in the preseason last year. And I saw one start with the first team and look average minus one TD pass in the first game and I saw one lead two fourth quarter comebacks and put up much better numbers "in a brand new system." (I don't want to hear about 3rd and 4th string defenses... where are McMullen, Goode, Gant, Mix and Mann????)

I just looked at the numbers and I was surprised.... if you remove the "dropped passes" from Brennans attempts these were his percentages.

HoF: 5/5 - 100%

Week 1: 4/5 - 80%

Week 2: 4/4 100%

Week 3: 6/9 - 66%

Week 4: 13/15 - 87%

God, its the offseason and I am getting ramped up and angry again.

For Christs sake..... start Colt Brennan. Even if we go 8-8 (and yes, our defense will win us at least 6 games this year).... at least it wont be boring. I am so sick of mediocre AND boring.

[Oldfan]

For Christs sake..... start Colt Brennan. Even if we go 8-8 (and yes, our defense will win us at least 6 games this year).... at least it wont be boring. I am so sick of mediocre AND boring.

Our passive defense which hasn't produced takeaways and short-field advantages is one of the leading factors in the team's low scoring.

[Mahons21]

Why would you guess that your opponents think it's easier to put together and all-pro-team to support Campbell? It seems more likely that the posters who oppose you would disagree with you that Campbell needs an all-pro support team to succeed in this era of parity in today's NFL.

-Well because people who oppose my opinion, obviously support Campbell. These same people discuss what Campbell will need to succeed, a new o-line, a defense that scores points, receivers that don't drop balls and are 7 feet tall, and so on... I think all of the above are quite hard to come across, and quite unrealistic so I believe we should be in search of a franchise qb who makes the players around him appear that much better.

[Santana_Fan]

-We have a secondary of first rounders and a top 5 RB, I doubt we can retain Hall/Rogers/Landry/Portis all the while revamping our o/d-line and receiving core.

-Giants won that game because of possibly the craziest catch in NFL history, the Patriots were ahead and poised for victory please don't tell me you thought that game was anything but a little bit of luck going one way.(Not to discredit there SB win they did win it all they have the Trophy, but cmon)

-I can't predict the future but I can go by trends in history; when was the last time a qb when from tied in lowest TD's one season to a Superbowl winner the next? Guess what the answer is...

-Our line did protect, Jason inabilities just made them look worst. Kinda like how NE's line gave up like 14 sacks or something crazy with Brady but like 40 sacks this season.(Those aren't the exact #'s) But see how a qb's play can make a line look better/worst

-And I'm not saying everything is on Jason, but I believe we need to find a franchise QB. Jason is not a franchise qb. Anyone who thinks so please tell me why...

And OLDFAN if you care to elaborate I would offer support of my opinion.

Yea, we do have a secondary of 1st rounders, but I thought you were trying to say that we needed that. Yes, the catch was crazy, but look how many times Brady was thrown off because of pressure. Brady never looked like that before, period. Honestly, I can't answer that question. The NFL has shown that anything can happen.

To answer what you said earlier, our O-Line isn't bad, but they are old (I think the oldest in the league), and I felt later in the season they were worn down. Jansen got beat 3 times in the Steelers game (bullied two times by a LB) all ended up sacks. When Jason had protection earlier in the season, I heard so many EXPERTS say he was having a Pro Bowl year. Experts and HOF's like Troy Aikman, Sonny, etc. I agree, QB play can make lines look good/bad, but even if Jason did have a quick delivery, it wouldn't matter with us getting no separation (unless you wanted him to throw a pick). Zorn has even said that we get no separation. Zorn also said that we don't call plays to go deep, because the line doesn't hold up that long...you did hear that right?

If you don't believe Campbell is a franchise QB, that's your opinion.

[Oldfan]

And OLDFAN if you care to elaborate I would offer support of my opinion.

See my edit of #126

[Santana_Fan]

Our passive defense which hasn't produced takeaways and short-field advantages is one of the leading factors in the team's low scoring.

I love our defense, but we don't get fumbles, int's, or sacks. I label our defense specifically as being solid all around, but not dominate yet, like the Ravens, Steelers, and Titans.

[Oldfan]

-Well because people who oppose my opinion, obviously support Campbell. These same people discuss what Campbell will need to succeed, a new o-line, a defense that scores points, receivers that don't drop balls and are 7 feet tall, and so on... I think all of the above are quite hard to come across, and quite unrealistic so I believe we should be in search of a franchise qb who makes the players around him appear that much better.

So, basically, you are creating a strawman argument by exaggerating the weaknesses pointed out by your opponents to portray their position as unrealistic. Is that it?

[Mahons21]

Our passive defense which hasn't produced takeaways and short-field advantages is one of the leading factors in the team's low scoring.

-Please don't tell me you are suggesting that our defense has been holding us back?

-Franchise qb's lead long drives it doesn't matter where they start from.

[Oldfan]

I love our defense, but we don't get fumbles, int's, or sacks. I label our defense specifically as being solid all around, but not dominate yet, like the Ravens, Steelers, and Titans.

On offense, the scheme aims at ball control and minimizing turnovers. On defense, the scheme makes it easy for the opponents to maintain ball control and commit few turnovers.

That has to change.

[Capt Rich Fla]

-Please don't tell me you are suggesting that our defense has been holding us back?

-Franchise qb's lead long drives it doesn't matter where they start from.

Our defense was ranked 8th last year, wasn't it?

[Mahons21]

So, basically, you are creating a strawman argument by exaggerating the weaknesses pointed out by your opponents to portray their position as unrealistic. Is that it?

-Enough with the philosophy class and yes I guess in a sense I am, to put it in terms you may prefer.

In today's NFL with the advantages placed on the offense, I believe it would be easier for the Redskins to search and find a franchise qb, then hope for the following: we draft extremely well on both sides of the line, hope one of our rookie receivers breaks out, all the while keeping Landry/Hall/Rogers/Moss/Portis/Randle El(who got extended) keeping in mind that if our draft players play considerably well they will want pricey new contracts

[Mahons21]

Our defense was ranked 8th last year, wasn't it?

-6th by ppg and that's really the best stat to go by.

[Oldfan]

-Please don't tell me you are suggesting that our defense has been holding us back?

I think I expressed myself clearly in the earlier post: "Our passive defense which hasn't produced takeaways and short-field advantages is one of the leading factors in the team's low scoring."

-Franchise qb's lead long drives it doesn't matter where they start from.

OBs do nothing without lots of help -- from offense, defense, special teams and coaching schemes.

[Oldfan]

-6th by ppg and that's really the best stat to go by.

You won't get much agreement on your opinion from people who understand football stats.

[Mahons21]

You won't get much agreement on your opinion from people who understand football stats.

-Oh really? What stat is it that you recommend we use for our defense that holds us back?

[Oldfan]

In today's NFL with the advantages placed on the offense, I believe it would be easier for the Redskins to search and find a franchise qb, then hope for the following: we draft extremely well on both sides of the line, hope one of our rookie receivers breaks out, all the while keeping Landry/Hall/Rogers/Moss/Portis/Randle El(who got extended) keeping in mind that if our draft players play considerably well they will want pricey new contracts

I'll spot you the Colts and Peyton Manning. What other perennial winner in the NFL, first drafted their franchise QB and then built around him? You can go back as far as you like in NFL history.

[Mahons21]

OBs do nothing without lots of help -- from offense, defense, special teams and coaching schemes.

-Why is this relevant? The same is true for every other players on the football team.

-My comment was a franchise qb can lead a team down the field no matter where it is starting from... If you disagree that Brees, Manning, Brady can't get to pay dirt from their own 20, please tell me why...

[PrimetimeSkins26]

:doh:

[Santana_Fan]

Our defense was ranked 8th last year, wasn't it?

4 in total defense. We're solid, but we don't create many opportunities for the offense. Roethlisberger had plenty of mistakes but he had a defense that had 20 ints, forced 22 fumbles, and 51 sacks, and defensive scores (as seen in the Superbowl). It'd take us 3 years to get that. Like I said, I love our defense, but if we got turnovers like that...man. Then people talk about Flacco, their defense had 34 sacks, 13 forced fumbles, 26 ints, and 5 defensive scores. A defensive score basically lost us the Rams game.

[Mahons21]

I'll spot you the Colts and Peyton Manning. What other perennial winner in the NFL, first drafted their franchise QB and then built around him? You can go back as far as you like in NFL history.

-Where did I say you have to build around this franchise qb? You are making up my argument for me... I am saying if a qb with franchise abilities came in right now onto this Redskins team that we could succeed with this supporting cast.

-Football isn't as simple as drafting a player and then building around them, you have many other factors at play injuries, age and so on that cannot all be accounted for at the beginning of some grand plan.

[Oldfan]

-Oh really? What stat is it that you recommend we use for our defense that holds us back?

Footballoutsiders.com has our defense rated at #11. Their stats are still a work in progress. They aren't the final word, but at least the guys on that site understand the problems.

Our offense only gave the ball away 18 times (8th), but our defense only had 18 takeaways (29th).

The average turnover leads to about four points, so Miami at +17 on the turnover ratio scored about 68 points more than the Skins (zero). that's about 4.25 points per game.