pft: RIGGINS: PORTIS A “HEADACHE”

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Riggins is right. Usually he is right, we hate to hear the truth, but the truth is that Portis didn't help the team by slamming the coach. Plus, Portis cares more about his legacy than the teams.

[Thinking Skins]

A) Riggins is dead on target.

Notice that the Portis fanboys and the Riggins supporters are USUALLY divided by age with the younger group showing NO respect for the HOF running back that lead us to a superbowl and drinking the coolaid of the guy who had lead us to nothing and usually disappears in big games.

I see it moreso as the naysayers/pessimists/haters jump on the bandwagon of Riggins/Mitchell/JLC/Czaban or somebody else who criticizes the Skins and calls it gospel or "dead on target"

Meanwhile, others of us who are optimistic or just not pessimistic try to look at and break down some of these statements to find the truth behind them and are called "kool-aid sippers" or "seeing things through burgendy glasses" etc.

But hey, thats why we play the game. And I'm sure that just like when MassSkinsFan said that the Skins wouldn't win 5 games this year (including preseason) and was proven wrong, either the optimists or the pessimists will eventually be proven wrong.

...meanwhile, a wait-and-see guy like myself will continue to neither get too excited or too pissed off about things cause I realize that the reality is somewhere in between (and if/when we finish somewhere in between, I will be proven right).

[kingdaddy]

Portis needs to be a team leader if the Skins are gonna go anywhere. You don't show leadership by trashing the head coach on radio shows. It's also very clear that Portis needs a lesser load because he wears down more now. I love the way he plays when he's on the field, but off the field we need him to demonstrate what it's like to be a professional. The future depends on it.

[gorebd82]

How many rings does Clinton have?

What's the Redskins record since Clinton came over?

What are Portis' stats in the three playoff games with the Redskins?

He's the Allen Iverson of the NFL.

What was the state of the team just before Portis was on the roster?

Who's been the only consistently productive offensive weapon?

This is like trying to blame Caron Butler for the Wizards losing season. How are you going to blame the success of a team with 22 starters on the one most consistent producer? And consider that his QBs have been old as dirt Brunell and Collins (who was terrible in that playoff loss) and an inexperienced Jason Campbell.

[rellascout]

For all the Portis fans out there it seems like you do not understand the current state of the HB position in the NFL. It is no longer a central piece to winning the way it used to be.

They are not your franchise player outside a few elitie backs which Portis is not one of. He is not AP. He is not LT in his prime. He is not Marshall Faulk, he is not Riggins in this prime.

The HB is now a commodity. There are so many players of quality that have the skills to get the job done. We gave up too much up front and pay to much now for Portis.

Portis has won nothing. Not a thing. he disappears in big games. Off the field he things he is above the team and his coaches. It is not right IMHO. It is not that I do not like Portis I do its just that he is not worth what we have paid and continue to pay for him.

[Pounds]

Riggo is right; he's also a hypocrite. He's smart though; I'll give him that much. He knows riding Portis as his hobbyhorse is gonna garner attention and ratings and, so far, it's worked like a gem.

As far as Portis is concerned, I'm over the guy. He's not fooling me; exempting his Denver days, he's only, and slightly, above average; certainly not worth all the trouble.

His mere presence to me is symptomatic of greater issues clouding business out at Redskins Park; reason enough for me to cringe at the thought of what he is off the field..

[SKOALSKIN]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Riggins was an even bigger pain in the ass while he was here. Riggo was the ultimate pre madona. Not to mention he was drunk for damn near every game. All portis has done is played his heart out. Last I checked Football was a team sport.

And to you morons talking about the correlation between Portis and the teams record need to flash back the memory to Barry Sanders. Clinton can't help his offensive line is a bunch of Geriatric no talent scrubs. He also can't help the fact that we have yet to find a legitmate pass catcher to ease the 8th man out of the box.

He's our best player and you idiots are calling him out because A. He's making money and B. He wants to win.

[CRobi21]

I agree with those who are saying this is getting quite old.

[rellascout]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Riggins was an even bigger pain in the ass while he was here. Riggo was the ultimate pre madona. Not to mention he was drunk for damn near every game. All portis has done is played his heart out. Last I checked Football was a team sport.

And to you morons talking about the correlation between Portis and the teams record need to flash back the memory to Barry Sanders. Clinton can't help his offensive line is a bunch of Geriatric no talent scrubs. He also can't help the fact that we have yet to find a legitmate pass catcher to ease the 8th man out of the box.

He's our best player and you idiots are calling him out because A. He's making money and B. He wants to win.

No people are calling him out because he calls out his oline, his coaches and teammates in public. He is immature on and off the field. He has not grown into a veteran leader. He is the team clown..... Oh and in the big games he disappears........

[Pounds]

For all the Portis fans out there it seems like you do not understand the current state of the HB position in the NFL. It is no longer a central piece to winning the way it used to be.

You're right here. With the rise of platoon running and the relative ease with which one can draft to fill the position and changes in the rules placing more emphasis on the passing game, the "featured back" is no longer a central figure in team success.

They are not your franchise player outside a few elitie backs which Portis is not one of. He is not AP. He is not LT in his prime. He is not Marshall Faulk' date=' he is not Riggins in this prime.[/quote']

Personally, the only back that you mention that I truly consider 'great' is Faulk; primarily for his contributions to St. Louis' passing game. I think the others, including Riggo, are overrated.

[Taylor4Life]

I see it moreso as the naysayers/pessimists/haters jump on the bandwagon of Riggins/Mitchell/JLC/Czaban or somebody else who criticizes the Skins and calls it gospel or "dead on target"

Meanwhile, others of us who are optimistic or just not pessimistic try to look at and break down some of these statements to find the truth behind them and are called "kool-aid sippers" or "seeing things through burgendy glasses" etc.

But hey, thats why we play the game. And I'm sure that just like when MassSkinsFan said that the Skins wouldn't win 5 games this year (including preseason) and was proven wrong, either the optimists or the pessimists will eventually be proven wrong.

...meanwhile, a wait-and-see guy like myself will continue to neither get too excited or too pissed off about things cause I realize that the reality is somewhere in between (and if/when we finish somewhere in between, I will be proven right).

I respect what you're saying, and I agree that the truth often lies in the gray area, but I think that a lot of people will interpret your statement as being afraid to take a position for fear of "being wrong."

As far as this issue goes, I really don't know what you're "waiting to see." Clinton Portis has been with the team for five seasons, which is a more than ample window of time to render your own judgment on him, for better or worse.

[bootzilla]

I think Riggo dragging this situation everywhere he goes is a headache...

Could not agree more. IMHO it appears Riggo has a personal Gripe with CP. Every Chance he gets He rips Portis. I may be wrong, but I cant remember Riggo saying a good word about about Portis.:2cents:

Since Portis came to Washington in 2004 there is only one RB in the NFL Who Has More Yards Than Portis. LT

Portis yards since 2004: 6103

LT's yards Since 2004 : 7196

One BIG Diffrences is Portis Missed 9 games in the same time span to LT's 1 game. Portis Missed 8 Games in 06 with An Dislocated Shoulder and Broken Hand. Just look at the numbers.

[SKOALSKIN]

Disapears in big games? Wasn't it his 100yd game streak that got us in the playoffs in 05 and 07. He never called out his teammates or offensive line in public. He called out Zorn which was well deserved. Zorn made some bad moves this year involving Portis.

The last time we told a top 10 NFL back to hit the bricks was Stephen Davis. What happend after that? The Kenny Watson, Trung Candidate, Kjana Carter experience.

[Mad Mike]

I think that's a fair observation. So of course the first thing I did was see your age and realize that's why you're biased your way and I'm biased my way. I also see that the other big Portis doubter in this thread is 45 and named HOF44. To each his own, we have our biases.

But please don't disregard the accomplishments of Portis who is about to pass most of Riggins records with just a few seasons as a Skin and many more to go. CP is on pace to be one of the most productive RBs in history and playing in the pass-happy, tandem backfield era. He is the most consistent Redskin over the past 5 years and been the glue holding together this team allowing us to have the success that we've experienced. There are a lot of flaws that can be pointed out, but his performance on and off-field are far from the reasons for our shortcomings.

So many people call him a primadonna, but what are the examples? Like I said in an earlier post, this calling out by Riggo is a non-issue. Portis said nothing controversial. People complain about him not participating in offseason workout plans just like everyone else from the U or Shawn Springs, but he did this season and I wouldn't exactly call that being cancerous. As for other issues, maybe my memory is short, but I don't remember many issues of him clashing with Gibbs. And his conflict with the O-Line and Zorn not calling enough runs were legitimate gripes that were provoked by local media attacking his dedication.

Portis does not play in a pass happy offense. He has been playing in an offense without a franchise QB or WR and he has gotten his yards from a gazillion carries. Also, production is more than yards. As touchdowns go, Portis sucks, as he does with big plays and game winning plays in big games.

On the other hand if you want someone to fumble away a winning touchdown for the other team, then rase hell because he was benched in the game, never comment about the TEAM loosing the game, and Sarcastically call your coach a genius in a selfish tirade on a radio show... Clinton is your man.

[Mad Mike]

Disapears in big games? Wasn't it his 100yd game streak that got us in the playoffs in 05 and 07. He never called out his teammates or offensive line in public. He called out Zorn which was well deserved. Zorn made some bad moves this year involving Portis.

The last time we told a top 10 NFL back to hit the bricks was Stephen Davis. What happend after that? The Kenny Watson, Trung Candidate, Kjana Carter experience.

Stephen Davis wanted WAY more money than he deserved and a long term contract. He left and was out of the NFL in two years. Good call by the FO.

Portis is a moron. He has no right to call out anyone other then ask directions to the endzone since he cant seem to find it without a map and some crayons.

[Novato]

the donkey speaking of big ears!!!!

[CRobi21]

Stephen Davis wanted WAY more money than he deserved and a long term contract. He left and was out of the NFL in two years. Good call by the FO.

Portis is a moron. He has no right to call out anyone other then ask directions to the endzone since he cant seem to find it without a map and some crayons.

Your right. We should put in our other RBs who score all the time.

Oh, wait.

Well, it is kind of embarrassing when CP is score so little TDs in our TD heavy offense.

Oh, wait.

[rellascout]

You're right here. With the rise of platoon running and the relative ease with which one can draft to fill the position and changes in the rules placing more emphasis on the passing game, the "featured back" is no longer a central figure in team success.

Personally, the only back that you mention that I truly consider 'great' is Faulk; primarily for his contributions to St. Louis' passing game. I think the others, including Riggo, are overrated.

The reason I mention the others is that they play big for their teams in key games. AP has played hurt and is game changing beast. Riggo won a superbowl and got to another one. LT well when he is healthy he is a scoring machine.

[AKM311]

Ok............. how about Riggins then? You think he would be anywhere nearly as sucessful if our line wasn't so dominant?

Of course Timmy Smith is a dumb comparison, that's the point. Look at the number of running backs that come out of nowhere within organizations and have great games, half seasons, etc. because of how good their lines are. You think the Giants running backs are REALLY that much better than everyone else in the league?

My point is you can replace running backs and not miss a beat. You mess with an O line and you get a turnstyle and a pisspoor offensive outing every week.

Its like trying to fix a leaking bucket by pouring water into it quicker. It might temporarily raise the level of water, but its alot smarter to go fix the hole at the bottom.

A star running back might temporarily increase the level of a team, but if you dont fix the problems at line, your inevitably gonna keep leaking down to the same level. Its smarter to decrease the waterflow a little by getting a cheaper running back (or 2, or 3) and saving your resources for the big holes within the organization.

I agree 100% with you that with a great o-line you can put avg backs in and still be a very good running team. But imagine a great line and a great rb, then you are dominant. Portis counts 6M against the cap this year, not that big of a portion compared to a lot of RBs that were not just drafted.

[rellascout]

Stephen Davis wanted WAY more money than he deserved and a long term contract. He left and was out of the NFL in two years. Good call by the FO.

Portis is a moron. He has no right to call out anyone other then ask directions to the endzone since he cant seem to find it without a map and some crayons.

You are wrong Stephen Davis was given the biggest contract a HB had ever received up to that point. He was cut because the back end numbers were too high. Injuries killed his carrer but even with that he has been to more SB than Portis.

Davis signed with the Carolina Panthers for the start of the 2003 NFL season, and was a catalyst in leading the team to Super Bowl XXXVIII. Davis rushed for a career-high 1,444 rushing yards and 8 touchdowns. He also finished in the top three for the NFL MVP voting that year.

[Thinking Skins]

I respect what you're saying, and I agree that the truth often lies in the gray area, but I think that a lot of people will interpret your statement as being afraid to take a position for fear of "being wrong."

As far as this issue goes, I really don't know what you're "waiting to see." Clinton Portis has been with the team for five seasons, which is a more than ample window of time to render your own judgment on him, for better or worse.

The thing is, as happens so often on Extremeskins, this issue with Portis has been discussed over and over again. I've come out backing Portis many times in the past. I don't see him as any more of a "headache" than Riggins was.

I do see him as having his own personality, which is a part of our team's personality and I think its a personality that helps this team, as opposed to one like T.O. that seems like a cancer just waiting to devour a team.

As far as fear of being wrong, its more of an issue of why speculate on what we don't know? I often will make threads about what I'm thinking about:

What do coaches think of Alexander?

How do we grade Zorn's offense?

How did JC do vs other Redskins QBs since SB XXVI?

How did other first year OCs do?

JC vs TC - 2008

My whole thing is that I'm willing to admit that I don't know everything; that I'm not a coach; and that there are others who are more well versed about football. But that doesn't mean that I can't form an opinion or as questions about why a person feels a certain way.

I don't come here for the rah rah or for the boo birds. I come here for the intelligent discussions that people like Om, Art, and others have been providing since 2001. Unfortunately, these discussions get drowned out by the eternal optimists or eternal pessimists who don't want to analyze things, just to throw blame or excuses.

But the "wait-and-see" is just the kind of guy I am. I don't get too high about success or too low about failure. I just try to understand as much about whats going on as possible.

[rellascout]

I agree 100% with you that with a great o-line you can put avg backs in and still be a very good running team. But imagine a great line and a great rb, then you are dominant. Portis counts 6M against the cap this year, not that big of a portion compared to a lot of RBs that were not just drafted.

You have to factor in the signing bonus cash to determine his real cost. It is much higher than that $6 million

[AKM311]

I respect what you're saying, and I agree that the truth often lies in the gray area, but I think that a lot of people will interpret your statement as being afraid to take a position for fear of "being wrong."

As far as this issue goes, I really don't know what you're "waiting to see." Clinton Portis has been with the team for five seasons, which is a more than ample window of time to render your own judgment on him, for better or worse.

I am with Thinking Skins as in I take a wait and see approach. Reason being is while Portis has had ample time, he has proven his worth with his numbers. But the problem of us winning and losing isn't on Portis. It is on the rest of the team/FO. By taking a wait and see approach, it has nothing to do with 'fear of being wrong'. We are not GMs or coaches of this team. We do not see all the game film to know whats going on. Whether the o-line is the prob, the qb, the rb, the wrs. We just don't know. So we take that approach because we don't try and act like geniuses or act like we are legitimate NFL GMs/coaches. I am not saying you do, but lots on this board do and IMO it is ridiculous because it is an opinion like mine which has no TRUE knowledge to exactly what is going on.

Now I can play GM and say what I think is exactly what this franchise needs to do, but that doesn't mean much.

[Dance04]

Riggo makes it worse. This is all he talks about when he speaks.

blast portis, blast portis, blast portis bla bla bla.

I'm not defending CP, I'm just saying Riggins' act is getting old. He blows it out of proportion and makes it worse.

Im convinced he is upset because CP is going to break his rushing record.

[Mad Mike]

You are wrong Stephen Davis was given the biggest contract a HB had ever received up to that point. He was cut because the back end numbers were too high. Injuries killed his carrer but even with that he has been to more SB than Portis.

Davis signed with the Carolina Panthers for the start of the 2003 NFL season, and was a catalyst in leading the team to Super Bowl XXXVIII. Davis rushed for a career-high 1,444 rushing yards and 8 touchdowns. He also finished in the top three for the NFL MVP voting that year.

And was gone the next. Next question.... How many times did we beat Dallas while Davis was our back?