Skins PR Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 But there may be a bright side. If we can succer somebody into giving up a 3rd or a 4th for Jason Taylor, we may be able to get something out of this. Yeah, and I want curly blonde hair but that ain't gonna happen either. Even if we did, we still wouldn't have gotten anything out of it, it would just be softening the blow of giving up that high 2nd rounder and next year's 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthor99 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Say no to Jordan Gross (and Albert Haynesworth). Maybe Gross will perform good for two or three years, but after that, we'll be saying the same thing we're saying about Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas as he hamstrings our cap with his massive contract. That's why drafting guys behind him is critical. Because if your theory plays out (which I disagree with on Gross) then you have a young guy waiting in the wings to take over. If the organization is really concerned with that then make sure most of that guaranteed $$ is loaded in the first 3 years. Philly does it with most of their players. They also get rid of guys after 30, which I'm on board with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yeah, and I want curly blonde hair but that ain't gonna happen either.Even if we did, we still wouldn't have gotten anything out of it, it would just be softening the blow of giving up that high 2nd rounder and next year's 6th. The way I see it is this way: Even a broken clock is right twice a day. So if Vinny has 10 picks in a draft (like last year), hopefully we can find starters out of 3/10 of those picks, but if half turn out to be servicable contributors then I wouldn't be mad. So the more picks Vinny has, the more of a chance I feel he has to be successful. Ignoring Vinny's talent, I see the draft as a crapshoot anyway. I mean there are only so many times that the BPA will NOT be a need. So I'm always in favor of continuously trading down and drafting the BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 But there may be a bright side. If we can succer somebody into giving up a 3rd or a 4th for Jason Taylor, we may be able to get something out of this. Why would anyone give up anything for JT? If the redskins are trying to trade him, it will be obvious that we don't want him back. Teams will just wait until we release him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Why would anyone give up anything for JT? If the redskins are trying to trade him, it will be obvious that we don't want him back. Teams will just wait until we release him Two reasons 1) Some team may be dumb enough to fall for the same thing we fell for last year when we traded for E. James - say that to avoid other teams trying to sign him, you can just make a trade for him. 2) Just because we're trying to trade him doesn't mean we don't want him back. He's still amongst the sack leaders amongst active players and has a very nice resume going for him. We could be willing to keep him at his current salary, but just interested in seeing what the market is for him. Its called exploring our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's too early to say. Every year we see guys that come in and wow us and the next year fall off the map.. Then there are guys who have crappy first years or don't even start seemingly coming out of nowhere to make a splash.. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 That frickin 2nd rounder we gave for Jason Taylor continues to bite us in the backside. That is one of the greatest blunders in recent memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Could the Skins become the second team to go 0-16? They had a collapse very similar to the '07 Lions. Seriously, what do the Skins have going for them? If you believe the article, the Skins do not have an acceptable starter for 3 spots on the o-line, and the d-line is almost as bad. If Rogers goes, and Springs is his usual self, the secondary (which made the D as good as it was) will not be a strength. So, there will be a terrible offense, and a mediocre-at-best defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROSCOUT Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I still don't see how you evaluate Rinehart without even letting him take an NFL snap. Oh thats right, they have lots of film on him from PRACTICE. Of course they had lots of film on him from COLLEGE. So they are basing everything on their film evaluations because they have zero NFL game experience evaluation. So the same guys who evaluated his film and practices in COLLEGE, and said "yea man, this guy is HOT", now those same guys are evaluating him and saying "nah, on second thought I've changed my mind, I don't think he can block anybody. Let's not give him a chance". Beautiful. Just Lovely. Excellent strategy for evaluating talent. Ya know what is REALLY scary? These are the same guys who loved those 3 receivers in the 2nd round, the same guys holding the 13th pick in the draft ,and their evaluation skills haven't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Could the Skins become the second team to go 0-16? They had a collapse very similar to the '07 Lions.Seriously, what do the Skins have going for them? If you believe the article, the Skins do not have an acceptable starter for 3 spots on the o-line, and the d-line is almost as bad. If Rogers goes, and Springs is his usual self, the secondary (which made the D as good as it was) will not be a strength. So, there will be a terrible offense, and a mediocre-at-best defense. It would take a lot for that to happen. Remember this isn't the first time we've had a collapse like this. We had it in 1996 when we started off 7-1 and finished 2-6. We had it in 1997 when we started off 6-2 and finished 8-7-1 (the 1 is for the Gus Ferrotte head butt game). Even look at Denver this year and they did the same thing. Its easy to be eternalistically pessimistic (or optimistic), but its much harder to try to analyze the facts and see where the team is strong and where it needs to improve.....and to have patience in doing so. We just need to have patience during the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I still don't see how you evaluate Rinehart without even letting him take an NFL snap. Oh thats right, they have lots of film on him from PRACTICE. Of course they had lots of film on him from COLLEGE. So they are basing everything on their film evaluations because they have zero NFL game experience evaluation. So the same guys who evaluated his film and practices in COLLEGE, and said "yea man, this guy is HOT", now those same guys are evaluating him and saying "nah, on second thought I've changed my mind, I don't think he can block anybody. Let's not give him a chance". Beautiful. Just Lovely. Excellent strategy for evaluating talent. Understand, these aren't our scouts saying this. This is JLC's "inside sources" saying this. That could be his imaginary friend for all we know. We'll just have to wait until Training camp to see how it goes for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingtar Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I still don't see how you evaluate Rinehart without even letting him take an NFL snap. Oh thats right, they have lots of film on him from PRACTICE. Of course they had lots of film on him from COLLEGE. So they are basing everything on their film evaluations because they have zero NFL game experience evaluation. So the same guys who evaluated his film and practices in COLLEGE, and said "yea man, this guy is HOT", now those same guys are evaluating him and saying "nah, on second thought I've changed my mind, I don't think he can block anybody. Let's not give him a chance". Beautiful. Just Lovely. Excellent strategy for evaluating talent. Unfortunately that is the way the NFL works. Sometimes you get a guy on your practice field and he isn't everything you thought he was cracked up to be. You have a load of film on these guys and you get to see them practice some. Every team has been fooled before. It is just sad to think it hit us this hard. You can't put a guy on the field though if you do not have confidence that he can at least be effective. This makes me think that Rinehart must be looking very poor in practice. Couple that with feedback from the guys he is blocking and his fellow lineman and they probably have a fair basis to keep him on the bench. What really kills me is the Jason Taylor trade. We could have easily gotten similar production out of about any DE on our roster. I honestly wonder if Rob Jackson could have matched JT's play. It was a panic move, much like our Duckett trade, that is going to have long term repercussions for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 One thing I would like to see throughout this entire football team is competition. It brings out the best in everyone, and it makes guys like Reinhart and Heyer win the position battle. a fck-ing men. This is a competitive sport and this coaching staff needs to stop worrying about how our squad looks on paper, cut all the dead weight over-priced players, draft and sign as many young cheap payers as possible and open everything up to competition in OTA's and camp. Maybe when the vets on this team finally realize that their salary cannot dictate playing time, and that they are not guaranteed anything it will light a fire under their *****es ... and you know, when young guys see older vets fiercely competing, it teaches them that they too have to aspire and work hard. Nothing should be guaranteed to a gott-damned person on this team, including "Mr. (I make more money than anyone else) Clinton freaking crybaby Portis. man this is pissing me off. It's like the same **** that all of this fan base has been screaming about for years, they are just now figuring out. Of course I know JLC likes to make everything look disastrous, if this is indeed the state of our current roster, it's time to blow the whole thing up. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grundle Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Could the Skins become the second team to go 0-16? They had a collapse very similar to the '07 Lions.Seriously, what do the Skins have going for them? If you believe the article, the Skins do not have an acceptable starter for 3 spots on the o-line, and the d-line is almost as bad. If Rogers goes, and Springs is his usual self, the secondary (which made the D as good as it was) will not be a strength. So, there will be a terrible offense, and a mediocre-at-best defense. True, the '07 Lions did start out 6-2 as well and then missed the playoffs. Could the '09 Skins go 0-16? Yes, it's possible. The offense that was terrible last season looks like it's gonna be pretty much the same. If they don't improve, and we trade Rogers, I think all it would take is an injury to Fletcher for our defense to go from top-5 to bottom-5. Lotta if's, but I think it's possible. 4-12 seems more likely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROSCOUT Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Unfortunately that is the way the NFL works. Sometimes you get a guy on your practice field and he isn't everything you thought he was cracked up to be. You have a load of film on these guys and you get to see them practice some. Every team has been fooled before. It is just sad to think it hit us this hard. You can't put a guy on the field though if you do not have confidence that he can at least be effective. This makes me think that Rinehart must be looking very poor in practice. Couple that with feedback from the guys he is blocking and his fellow lineman and they probably have a fair basis to keep him on the bench.What really kills me is the Jason Taylor trade. We could have easily gotten similar production out of about any DE on our roster. I honestly wonder if Rob Jackson could have matched JT's play. It was a panic move, much like our Duckett trade, that is going to have long term repercussions for our team. The whole point is that you are saying that our coaches have now determined that they made a mistake. That was MY point. They make a LOT of mistakes in evaluating talent, so how do we know they aren't making yet another mistake by writing him off. And NO this is NOT the way is works in the NFL, as evidenced by the fact that teams like New York and New England seem to evaluate offensive line talent without major difficulty. I see their 2nd and 3rd round picks starting and making the pro bowl, while ours can't seem to get on the field or get traded away. Although this is not the way it works in the NFL, yes, this is the way it seems to work in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The whole point is that you are saying that our coaches have now determined that they made a mistake. That was MY point. They make a LOT of mistakes in evaluating talent, so how do we know they aren't making yet another mistake by writing him off. And NO this is NOT the way is works in the NFL, as evidenced by the fact that teams like New York and New England seem to evaluate offensive line talent without major difficulty. I see their 2nd and 3rd round picks starting and making the pro bowl, while ours can't seem to get on the field or get traded away.Although this is not the way it works in the NFL, yes, this is the way it seems to work in Washington. Don't forget the Giants went for years with a guy at LT in Luke Petitgout who was playing abysmal. Its not like they haven't had their messups too (which helped limit them from success). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintrain Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 That article just screamed continued mediocrity or worse in '09. Hopefully the beginning of the end of the Cerrato era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The whole point is that you are saying that our coaches have now determined that they made a mistake. That was MY point. They make a LOT of mistakes in evaluating talent, so how do we know they aren't making yet another mistake by writing him off. And NO this is NOT the way is works in the NFL, as evidenced by the fact that teams like New York and New England seem to evaluate offensive line talent without major difficulty. I see their 2nd and 3rd round picks starting and making the pro bowl, while ours can't seem to get on the field or get traded away.Although this is not the way it works in the NFL, yes, this is the way it seems to work in Washington. Since Hunter_R compared us to the 2007 Lions, I'd like to compare us to the 2006 Giants. Consider the following artle: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/sports/football/22giants.html?_r=1 It is part of the bonding they say is needed to play on the offensive line, a unit that requires more cohesion than any other. No other group on the team relies on such scripted movement and synchronicity.Last season, the Giants had the same five starting offensive linemen in 16 of 17 games, including the playoffs. Their lineup was intact for the first seven games of this season. But if O’Hara does not play against the Saints, the Giants will unveil their fifth starting lineup of the past eight games — a lineup backed by two players who have yet to take an offensive snap with the unit. Five weeks ago, the Giants had the third-best rushing attack in the N.F.L. Their rushing totals have been below average since, and their ranking has slipped to ninth. And now the playoffs are on the line, and everyone at Giants Stadium will be rooting for an appropriate big-yardage send-off for Barber. The 2007 Giants were able to overcome the OL age and injury problems and become a Super Bowl winner. I'm not saying that we'll do as well next year, but I don't see a reson for the pessimists to overtake the fans right now. Anything is possible for next year - anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 You always have to filter what JLC puts out. He does try to print correct information, but is not always right. Since his sources do not include Vinny, the coaches and the owner he has to guess what they are doing/planing/thinking. In this analysis he is hit and miss. That said I read truth in some of the things he wrote and yes, some of the items are obvious. Both Jansen and Thomas got old fast. I blame the FO, however, for not taking into account age as factor when they gave expensive extensions to both players. Instead of drafting possible replacements the team decided to keep aging vets. Unfortunately, neither can be cut until next off season at the earliest. I think Thomas will be around two more years. Reference Heyer, the Raven FO got the correct MD tackle in the supplemental draft and left Heyer alone. The miss on Rinehart is disturbing. This was Vinny's pick and he didn't properly evaluate the talent. He needs to find some low round UDFA's in this draft to make up for it. The fact that Rinehart didn't sniff the active roster is proof that JLC is correct. Of course the team is going to keep Griff, they don't have a replacement. They have to address the Oline and don't have the draft picks or salary cap to address the Dline this off season. The Jason Taylor situation is all on Vinny. I hope when players go down this summer he doesn't do anything stupid again. The Tuna will be smiling all the way up until he uses the second round pick we gave him on draft day. If Taylor ends up back in Miami, that is just extra icing on the cake. Vinny gets one more off season. If the team fails next season, and right now 8-8 is a possibility, then the team needs to be blown up and most of the aging vets cut. Unfortunately, Zorn is going to get blamed for the losses when Vinny should be out front telling the world that he made the player decisions and could not properly provide the HC enough talent to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Master III Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I guess our D-line will continue to suck! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur Sketch Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I don't understand how they don't have any money to sign free agents if some of the dead weight like Washington, Jason Taylor and others are cut? Is it really the economy? The economy is affecting everyone, why Dan Snyder more so than other NFL owners? Is he saying we aren't spending for cash and not cap purposes? I'm also not advocating the team go on a FA spree, as they aren't really close to a title. But what is written here is completely unacceptable. This team is going nowhere as presently constituted. Take the cap hits and cut a few guys, replacing them with guys like Heyer, Rhinehart (whether he's ready or not) and draft picks, or go after a few free agents and try to compete. You can't stand idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 We can't afford to tie up the $ Gross will want (and get). It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 a fck-ing men. This is a competitive sport and this coaching staff needs to stop worrying about how our squad looks on paper, cut all the dead weight over-priced players, draft and sign as many young cheap payers as possible and open everything up to competition in OTA's and camp.Maybe when the vets on this team finally realize that their salary cannot dictate playing time, and that they are not guaranteed anything it will light a fire under their *****es ... and you know, when young guys see older vets fiercely competing, it teaches them that they too have to aspire and work hard. Nothing should be guaranteed to a gott-damned person on this team, including "Mr. (I make more money than anyone else) Clinton freaking crybaby Portis. man this is pissing me off. It's like the same **** that all of this fan base has been screaming about for years, they are just now figuring out. Of course I know JLC likes to make everything look disastrous, if this is indeed the state of our current roster, it's time to blow the whole thing up. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :doh: sorry to quote myself, but I find it hard to be optimistic about our roster when our coaching staff is obviously outmatched, under prepared and inexperienced. It's like the blind leading the blind. And the way I see it ... regarding whether or not Heyer, Rhinehardt or any of the rookies (for that matter) can actually play at the NFL level or not ... can we really trust that Zorn is able to truly evaluate talent when he himself is learning this thing on the fly? It just seems so broken from the top down, that we need an experienced coach and coaching staff to come in here and right the ship. The Gibbs II experiment was a win now operation ... in fact it is starting to look more and more like our 6-2 was actually the remaining touches of the playoff run we had in '07. I'm not saying Gibbs II wouldn't have had the same issues Zorn had, I'm only suggesting that his vision was not a "long-term" vision at least in terms of today's salary-cap, primadonna-esque game ... it was a win now mentality. With each passing day I am becoming more of a pessimist, especially with Zorn bringing in old college buddies as position coaches, instead of putting experienced NFL coaching around him to help him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Here we go again with with JLC is just making stuff up. Even though everything he said is pretty obvious. This thing needs to be blown up. Take the cap hit in 2009 and focus on rebuilding the roster. Hopefully, with a real GM and a real head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthor99 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 What really kills me is the Jason Taylor trade. We could have easily gotten similar production out of about any DE on our roster. I honestly wonder if Rob Jackson could have matched JT's play. It was a panic move, much like our Duckett trade, that is going to have long term repercussions for our team. Of course being the Monday Morning QB you can make a statement as above. Jason Taylor averaged 10 sacks a year when we traded for him. Did this organization know that he was going to have an injury filled season? Of course not. It baffles me how people can sit back and act like they predicted Taylor would of had such an unproductive season. Heck, the guy hadn't been injured his entire career, so I believe what the Redskins did was the best interest of the team, and NOT a panic move. You would be the SAME person yelling and screaming and saying "I told you so" if we would of simply sat on our hands with Daniels went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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