Redskins Insider: Initial Personnel Ratings Completed

[CRobi21]

Here we go again with with JLC is just making stuff up. Even though everything he said is pretty obvious. This thing needs to be blown up. Take the cap hit in 2009 and focus on rebuilding the roster. Hopefully, with a real GM and a real head coach.

You really think this fan base has the patientence to go through with that?

[paloosa]

So when have the Redskins had a good OL? Since Bugel has been back he hasn't had a very good selection of players to work with and the line has always being patchworked together to get through the season. Rinehart was suppose to be a greta prospect for them and even considered a steal. So what happened? Is it the player or the coach? I respect Bugel for what he has accomplished but is he too committed to the veterans and doesn't want to play Rookies? Ignoring the needs of the OL is just plain idiotic to do for that long. They traded for Rabach and Kendall and gave up more than they should have in the process. We let a quality OG go to Buffalo and got nothing in return and instead traded for a old veteran that is on his last legs. We need to get rid of the dead weight and get some new life in here. If we can trade some player and their salary then it would help us. We need to get Springs to restructure or just cut him outright. He is only good for 7-9 games a season because he is always injured. We need to see what Tryon is all about so we make these decisions better. This next year is going to be a long year full of disappointed fans unless we make a big splash that doesn't break the bank. I feel we can get a quality guy in the draft and hope that they make a difference or show signs of that. We need to cut our losses in some areas and be ready for the '10 draft and season where we will be able to acquire some real talent. Also get rid of Cerrato if he doesn't draft any better than he did this year because it won't get any better if the draft picks he gets this year aren't any better than the ones he just drafted.

[mcgraw238]

You really think this fan base has the patientence to go through with that?

Valid point. Maybe the better question is whether ownership has the patience. The organization and the fan base would be better off in the long run. I admit that I am a pretty disgruntled member of said fanbase.

[JMUGator19]

It baffles me how people can sit back and act like they predicted Taylor would of had such an unproductive season.

the funny thing is... people DID sit back and predict that taylor would be unproductive. ALOT of people did. in fact, alot of people said that even if he WAS productive they were getting raped by giving up a 2nd rounder (at the time worth a 3rd rounder). which btw a 27 year old Carlos Rogers apparently may not be worth despite being in consideration for the probowl for much of the year.

sorry, but a boo boo is a boo boo, and the redskins fell flat on their face for overreacting to P.Daniel's injury. it was a big mistake that most other people would not have fell for. whoever was responsible for that mistake really ought to be fired or have a pay cut for a year for that blunder but wont.

in such an evenly talented league like the NFL, even the smallest mistake can put you behind the pack for a year.

[Dick Edds]

You really think this fan base has the patientence to go through with that?

yes, yes I would ... as long as that means the end of the Vinny Cerrato era.

Blow the whole thing up and get someone in here who knows WTF they are doing, rather than letting Vinny sling some doo-doo on a wall and hoping it sticks.

[jthor99]

the funny thing is... people DID sit back and predict that taylor would be unproductive. ALOT of people did. in fact, alot of people said that even if he WAS productive they were getting raped by giving up a 2nd rounder (at the time worth a 3rd rounder). which btw a 27 year old Carlos Rogers apparently may not be worth despite being in consideration for the probowl for much of the year.

sorry, but a boo boo is a boo boo, and the redskins fell flat on their face for overreacting to P.Daniel's injury. it was a big mistake that most other people would not have fell for. whoever was responsible for that mistake really ought to be fired or have a pay cut for a year for that blunder but wont.

in such an evenly talented league like the NFL, even the smallest mistake can put you behind the pack for a year.

Dude if Taylor would of been productive and had 10 sacks then I can't see how giving up a 2nd round choice would be considered getting raped.

Again, Taylor was non productive last season. That's a fact. But, there isn't a single person on this board who predicted the injuries that took place that actually did take place.

If we simply would of done nothing after Daniels injury then Cerrato ultimatley isn't doing his job. If every GM in the league should be fired for a blunder or a bad deal or aquisition then there would be a ton of turnover. It's the dice you roll in making the deal.

But, I still to this day feel that the Jason Taylor trade was absoutley necessary at the time Phillip went down

[mcgraw238]

the funny thing is... people DID sit back and predict that taylor would be unproductive. ALOT of people did. in fact, alot of people said that even if he WAS productive they were getting raped by giving up a 2nd rounder (at the time worth a 3rd rounder).

Exactly. I remember reading an article quoting a GM from another team who opined that Taylor was not a fit for our scheme. Now I admit that I did not think that Taylor would look as bad as he did and I don't overlook the fact that he battled injuries for much of the season.

[jthor99]

I'm not sure what some of you wanted. Did you honestly expect them to move onto Chris Wilson or Rob Jackson? And everthing would be hunky dory? First, Wilson to me looks nothing more then a 3rd down spot pass rusher. He brings no run stopping abilities to the table. Rob Jackson was a 7th round rookie which would of been laughable to just throw him into the lineup. He barley made the team let a lone made any type of contribution to the football team

Would that honestly of made any sense? I'm not talking about does it make sense today because of course we could all answer that question, but the day Daniels went down does that scenerio make sense?

To me it made all the sense in the world to make that deal that day

[mcgraw238]

Dude if Taylor would of been productive and had 10 sacks then I can't see how giving up a 2nd round choice would be considered getting raped.

Taylor did not have 10 sacks and giving up a 2nd round choice for a 34 year player that did not mesh well with our scheme is a huge mistake. Going with Evans at DE and keeping the 2 picks would have been the smarter move. Evans was getting the bulk of the playing time by seasons end in any event. And let's stop pretending that this is the only bad move that the Snyder/Cerrato front office has made. Ever heard of TJ Duckett, Todd Wade at guard, obsession with restricted free agents, 3rd round choice for Mark Brunell, giving up any draft pick for Erasmus James, Adam Archuleta, extending a washed up Jansen...?

[That Redskins Fan]

You really think this fan base has the patientence to go through with that?

IMO yes cause i am sick of medicore and I truly expect and i do not want to be a negative nancy a 6-10 or 5-11 season from this team anyway. I am no fan of Jim ( God I am a amazing arrogrant man ) Zorn And Cerrato speaks for itself.

I would take losing campaign with whoever Snyder can bribe ,lie, cheat, give his first born child to come here and help turn things around Gruden, Dungy, Cowher. If someone of their ilk came here i would be content with losses cause it would be a better direction then what is going on now.

[gobigred]

This is not the report I wanted to read I agree with all the needs that was stated but to see us with our pants around our feet just makes me sick. I blame all of this on Vinny. He made the draft choices last year and the trades for Taylor. Looking in hindsight way would Bill Parcells give away a guy like that unless he knew the party was over. It is not to much fun being a redskin fan right now and the season is over. The only way I see fixing this is a big time trade and this time we win in that trade. I just don't believe in Vinny. This guy has shown he can win as a front office manager. They have made only a few drafts that really contributed to the team, We don't have any draft picks, we don't have any cap space and we have a DL and OL that needed major revamping for years and nothing really has been done.Can we get a GM from a proven wining progarm and start over we can not even gage JC because his line is no good. He is going to go to a stable structure in a football team like Pirece and make this organization and some of you colt brennon jock riders look stupid.

[jthor99]

Taylor did not have 10 sacks and giving up a 2nd round choice for a 34 year player that did not mesh well with our scheme is a huge mistake. Going with Evans at DE and keeping the 2 picks would have been the smarter move. Evans was getting the bulk of the playing time by seasons end in any event. And let's stop pretending that this is the only bad move that the Snyder/Cerrato front office has made. Ever heard of TJ Duckett, Todd Wade at guard, obsession with restricted free agents, 3rd round choice for Mark Brunell, giving up any draft pick for Erasmus James, Adam Archuleta, extending a washed up Jansen...?

Mesh well with our scheme? You read an article about a GM commenting about how he doesn't mesh with our scheme and suddenly you run with it?

Did Taylor even have a chance to actually mesh with the scheme? Hurt his knee in preseason played on basically one leg until the calf injury. Then was basically hurt for another 6 weeks. So essentially he played the entire football season besides the last month hurt. Sorry, I'm not going to judge a guy in our scheme by 4 weeks of healthy football.

And trust me I realize the trade blunders this organization has made, and I won't argue about any of them. But, I'm simply asking you to look at the trade we made in August and not look at it today. Because Cerrato was banking on Jason Taylor healthyness and production (which did average 10 sacks a year) we unforuntley got the total opposite, which was not to be expected.

Don't sit here and be the GM on the couch and act as if you predicted Taylor would of had this injury filled season

[TheLongshot]

I still don't see how you evaluate Rinehart without even letting him take an NFL snap. Oh thats right, they have lots of film on him from PRACTICE. Of course they had lots of film on him from COLLEGE. So they are basing everything on their film evaluations because they have zero NFL game experience evaluation.

Last I checked, preseason games were games. Also, I would assume that Buges would know how to evaluate the progress of an OL by now.

There are a couple of things with Rinehart that he would have to adjust to to be successful at the pro level - the increase in competition and moving inside to guard. Apparently that hasn't happened as quickly as they would have liked.

What the comment tells me that as of right now, you can't count on Rinehart starting a game next season. That doesn't mean he won't be able to start, but that he needs to make a lot of progress to get there, and that they need to make plans to find someone else to come in and compete for the starting spot.

BTW, one thing I noticed was that Rabach's name or position didn't come up in this article. Despite what a lot of us think, both the coaches and the FO still seem to feel highly about him. It makes one wonder if we are missing something in trying to evaluate him.

[gobigred]

Taylor did not have 10 sacks and giving up a 2nd round choice for a 34 year player that did not mesh well with our scheme is a huge mistake. Going with Evans at DE and keeping the 2 picks would have been the smarter move. Evans was getting the bulk of the playing time by seasons end in any event. And let's stop pretending that this is the only bad move that the Snyder/Cerrato front office has made. Ever heard of TJ Duckett, Todd Wade at guard, obsession with restricted free agents, 3rd round choice for Mark Brunell, giving up any draft pick for Erasmus James, Adam Archuleta, extending a washed up Jansen...?

Amen brother us southern boys know what this team needs and it is not the sorry FO we have now, that keeps screwing up over and over again and keep getting passes. We need a owner that will focus on the marketing and leave football to some good football people. I bet they never tell the coaching staff free to speak in these meetings to get the real deal. Can we draft Some heart, sign in FA with a desire to win, and resign some electricity.

[Fred Jones]

To me it made all the sense in the world to make that deal that day

I said at the time that I didn't like the trade. Stop giving away day one picks.

However, let me be more clear. If something similar happens again this year let me say right now that I hope Vinny stops giving away first day picks to fill holes.

As it turns out the defense did ok without Taylor. Find a young hungry player to fill the void. That is what talent evaluation is all about.

[gobigred]

Mesh well with our scheme? You read an article about a GM commenting about how he doesn't mesh with our scheme and suddenly you run with it?

Did Taylor even have a chance to actually mesh with the scheme? Hurt his knee in preseason played on basically one leg until the calf injury. Then was basically hurt for another 6 weeks. So essentially he played the entire football season besides the last month hurt. Sorry, I'm not going to judge a guy in our scheme by 4 weeks of healthy football.

And trust me I realize the trade blunders this organization has made, and I won't argue about any of them. But, I'm simply asking you to look at the trade we made in August and not look at it today. Because Cerrato was banking on Jason Taylor healthyness and production (which did average 10 sacks a year) we unforuntley got the total opposite, which was not to be expected.

Don't sit here and be the GM on the couch and act as if you predicted Taylor would of had this injury filled season

Is this Vinny?

[Mercuryrising]

I think its pretty obvious the bottom is about to drop out of this whole operation next year

I don't have much confidence, at this point that we have anything better then a 5-11 team in 2009

Of course it depends on off season moves. But going into next season with practically the same o-line and little d-line improvement, I don't expect good things

Did you read the write-up? Did you not understand it?

They are focusing on the lines and they finally acknowledge that we need new players and not simply try to get by with what we got. I am not sure how you got that they are standing pat out of what was posted....

[mcgraw238]

Mesh well with our scheme? You read an article about a GM commenting about how he doesn't mesh with our scheme and suddenly you run with it?

Did Taylor even have a chance to actually mesh with the scheme? Hurt his knee in preseason played on basically one leg until the calf injury. Then was basically hurt for another 6 weeks. So essentially he played the entire football season besides the last month hurt. Sorry, I'm not going to judge a guy in our scheme by 4 weeks of healthy football.

And trust me I realize the trade blunders this organization has made, and I won't argue about any of them. But, I'm simply asking you to look at the trade we made in August and not look at it today. Because Cerrato was banking on Jason Taylor healthyness and production (which did average 10 sacks a year) we unforuntley got the total opposite, which was not to be expected.

Don't sit here and be the GM on the couch and act as if you predicted Taylor would of had this injury filled season

I clearly stated in post #82 that I did not foresee Taylor being as bad as he was and I acknowledged the significant injuries contributing to his performance. I do now, and did then, agree with the assessment that Taylor is not a good fit with our defensive scheme. Taylor made that assessment himself somewhere around weeks 10-12.

[jthor99]

I said at the time that I didn't like the trade. Stop giving away day one picks.

However, let me be more clear. If something similar happens again this year let me say right now that I hope Vinny stops giving away first day picks to fill holes.

As it turns out the defense did ok without Taylor. Find a young hungry player to fill the void. That is what talent evaluation is all about.

I didn't like the value we had to give up either, but I also wasn't comfortable in allowing Evans, Wilson, Jackson to fill that void.

Evans is essientally one demionsial in my eyes. He's good at stopping the run, but he lacks any type of pass rush.

Wilson is the opposite, and Jackson needs to tool his entire game further, and I believe time and expierence will do that.

[JMUGator19]

Dude if Taylor would of been productive and had 10 sacks then I can't see how giving up a 2nd round choice would be considered getting raped.

But, there isn't a single person on this board who predicted the injuries that took place that actually did take place.

But, I still to this day feel that the Jason Taylor trade was absoutley necessary at the time Phillip went down

1) mmmm.... I definetely remember people thinking we were dumb. and SEVERAL of my friends thought he was never even that great to start with. Several GMs definetely said he would not be a fit. Several people on this board thought he would get mauled.

2) Away from that point. I stand by what i said. you do NOT trade a 2nd rounder for a 34 year old man. not now. not ever. ESPECIALLY when the guy was being traded away because he showed little concern for playing football. Thats selfish of him. He signed a contract and decided that dancing was more important than fulfilling his duties. voluntary or not, they are all practices that no one is too good to attend.

Its simple. I would never trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick for someone over 32. Especially when its clear he would only be willing to play football for 2 years max. A 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder should be worth a starter for abougt 4-5 years CHEAP. then available to be resigned or traded. Instead you give a 34 year old 8 million dolllars.

As for not predicting possible injuries. Seriously? he danced for the whole summer and hes 34. Injury prone or not, hes gotta get hurt EVENTUALLY. when do you propose he might get hurt? 38? Hes a DLmen, they dont last too long. Even Fletcher got hurt this year. he just played through the pain. but if you didnt see him lose a step b/c of his pain your blind or a homer. I just pray he can last 1 more season at his productivity so we have time to draft a replacement. No one might have PREDICTED JT getting hurt, but everyone was perfectly aware that in all probability he would get hurt.

3) Phillip Daniels was never that great to begin with. Why would you freak out about a marginal player going down and need to replace him whith someone you felt was a probowl caliber player?

I think the answer to this is simple. They paid a price they KNEW as steep because they legitemately thought we were in a superbowl bid. losing PD would take us out of the race. and having a bad draft next year is worth a playoff run this year.

They miscalculated their deficiencies at OL, LB and WR. Thats why we were not a threat in the playoffs.

The appropriate and scary thing to do at the time was to trust in Demetric Evans or find another player in FA. trading for a player RIGHT before the season starts almost always is going to cost you too much in picks. just like trading down for more picks during or right before the draft will always be difficult and costly. It just takes more discipline to trade for picks during the season rather than after it.

We can agree to dissagree about wether aquiring JT was the right course of action if you disagree about JT not being worth a 2nd rounder. I just would not trade a 2nd rounder for anyone old. i wouldnt trade a 1st round pick for payton manning (32). i wouldnt trade a 2nd round pick for drew brees (30 years old). I wouldnt TRADE picks for anyone over the age of 30 for anything in the first 3 rounds. Period.

[jthor99]

I clearly stated in post #82 that I did not foresee Taylor being as bad as he was and I acknowledged the significant injuries contributing to his performance. I do now, and did then, agree with the assessment that Taylor is not a good fit with our defensive scheme. Taylor made that assessment himself somewhere around weeks 10-12.

Again, please explain how you can judge how he fit in our scheme on 4 weeks of healthy football? My opinion may chance, but saying "he doesn't fit our scheme" when the guy was hurt 12 weeks out of the year just doesn't make much sense.

If Andre Carter can fit our scheme (right?) then why couldn't a healthy Jason Taylor?

[JMUGator19]

I'm not sure what some of you wanted. Did you honestly expect them to move onto Chris Wilson or Rob Jackson? And everthing would be hunky dory? First, Wilson to me looks nothing more then a 3rd down spot pass rusher. He brings no run stopping abilities to the table. Rob Jackson was a 7th round rookie which would of been laughable to just throw him into the lineup. He barley made the team let a lone made any type of contribution to the football team

Would that honestly of made any sense? I'm not talking about does it make sense today because of course we could all answer that question, but the day Daniels went down does that scenerio make sense?

To me it made all the sense in the world to make that deal that day

You are right. Anyone else would have sucked. Chris Wilson couldnt have done it. Rob Jackson couldnt have done it. Demetric Evans turns out to have been semi qualified to do it, but we could NEVER have known that at the time.

You are right. You are right. You are right. You still DO NOT MAKE THAT TRADE. if you have to suck for a year so be it. Its a team game. 1 player does not make that much of a difference that you cost the team a chance to draft a starter. For pete's sake. Grossman was a QB at the superbowl. if the bears can do it with him, we can get along without a second DE. sucks to suck. take your lumps when you got to though.

[santarpia]

Great job Vinny! How many more draft pick are you going to waste on player who can't play!

[Mercuryrising]

I still don't see how you evaluate Rinehart without even letting him take an NFL snap. Oh thats right, they have lots of film on him from PRACTICE. Of course they had lots of film on him from COLLEGE. So they are basing everything on their film evaluations because they have zero NFL game experience evaluation.

So the same guys who evaluated his film and practices in COLLEGE, and said "yea man, this guy is HOT", now those same guys are evaluating him and saying "nah, on second thought I've changed my mind, I don't think he can block anybody. Let's not give him a chance".

Beautiful. Just Lovely. Excellent strategy for evaluating talent.

Ya know what is REALLY scary? These are the same guys who loved those 3 receivers in the 2nd round, the same guys holding the 13th pick in the draft ,and their evaluation skills haven't changed.

I do remember reading how Erasmus James was blowing Rinehart up in practice, and James was declared a bum and sent packing, so......

Now we can all pretend our FO is a mastermind and this is all some sort of crazy spin,; that Heyer and Rhino are in fact BEASTS and we are trying to sucker other teams into thinking we need OL so they try to take them instead to deprive us (hint: other teams don't base their off-season around what the Skins do....) but let's be real. This info is not only very believable, but also probably very accurate.

There is no point in trying to trick other teams FO’s, they know football better than we do and if they care they already know our weaknesses from playing us.

[mcgraw238]

Again, please explain how you can judge how he fit in our scheme on 4 weeks of healthy football? My opinion may chance, but saying "he doesn't fit our scheme" when the guy was hurt 12 weeks out of the year just doesn't make much sense.

If Andre Carter can fit our scheme (right?) then why couldn't a healthy Jason Taylor?

Its the responsibility that the given system requires in run support and lining up in the various gaps that was a concern to many. Asking Taylor to man up on the tackle and contain run support for the sweeps is not something that he is going to do well. You have to create space for a speed rusher such as Taylor. Hence the current idea of using him at OLB. Watching Taylor get mauled by tackles and even tight ends was pretty predictable. You have to put him in open space to attack and that doesn't fit well with what Blache likes to do. Also, I don't see Taylor as a strong compliment opposite Carter. They are to similar in style and can both be neutralized at the point of attack. I'm really not that big a fan of Carter though he does seem like a really high character guy. He's to much of a tweener DE/3-4 OLB.

Bottom line, at the time of the trade I, like others, had concerns about the trade and its costs but I was hoping that it would work out. Taylor's body of work is impressive. I also thought Taylor showed incrementle improvement toward the end of the season when Blache started moving him around and letting play more standup.