WP-Skins should follow Falcons, Ravens & Miami

[TheLongshot]

JLC once again showed that he likes to grind his axe. But he did point out a few things in the article. The skins missed on Heyer/Gaither from MD. A school right down the street from us. The Ravens picked the better of the two players. A lack of talent evaluation by our front office.

It is hard to criticize the Skins for getting a pretty good player in Heyer. Obviously JLC still doesn't believe that Heyer will ever be anything, but I think he's a damn good player for what we gave up for him (nothing).

As for Gaither, the supplemental draft is pretty much a shot in the dark. Everyone submits what pick they will give up for a player, and whoever is higher in the draft order gets the player. To get Gaither (which Baltimore gave up a 5th round pick), we would have had to have given up a 4th...Whoops, didn't have one in 2008. A 3rd then. That's a lot to give up for supplemental picks, which you don't usually have the advantage of working out and rarely work out.

[maskedsuperstar]

The issue is that one season (last year) we are all about using the draft to build the roster, great. However, this off-season we maybe back to using free agency to fill the roster ala past years. This is the problem you can't have both ways as they are very different strategies. While it maybe a good idea to one person (Snyderrato) in the front office the rest of the presonel department is left ruderless if the strategy keeps changing from year to year. Imagine a scout in our personel dept who has to change who/how they scout if everything changes every year or so.

The Skins just let go 20 employees. I doubt they are busy in FA. If they are, Jason Brown. Thats it.

Change? Thats the Skins biggest problem.

[Mr. Grundle]

Seriously, are you JLC haters delusional? This article is spot on in every aspect.

To prove he is not just hating, he has actual quotes from actual NFL executives backing up his opinions. Also, what about the quotes from our own players? Our own team can't figure out what the hell Snyeratto is doing.

It's not grinding an axe when it's the ****ing truth.

It actually appears JLC is trying to help Vinny out a bit. Actual quotes from REAL NFL executives on what he needs to do.

I'd actually like to thank Jason La Canfora for trying to help a brotha out. Vinny, put down the MAD magazine and pick up the newspaper and learn something, you dunce.

[jrfriedm]

I'm not a fan of JLC, I don't know anybody who is, but I think he has got it right here with his "un-named" sources. Sure it was probably by accident, but got it right he did. The Redskins must stop restructuring these monstrous contracts (although the reason they do so is to keep them under the cap) and get rid of some of the guys. They must start drafting a minimum of two to three linemen (offense or defense) every year, until this team is over run with young talented guys who can control the line of scrimmage. This process will probably take around six to seven years, after which you can pick one or two given on the talent and the need out there.

[BAFGA]

Seriously, are you JLC haters delusional? This article is spot on in every aspect.

To prove he is not just hating, he has actual quotes from actual NFL executives backing up his opinions. Also, what about the quotes from our own players? Our own team can't figure out what the hell Snyeratto is doing.

It's not grinding an axe when it's the ****ing truth.

It actually appears JLC is trying to help Vinny out a bit. Actual quotes from REAL NFL executives on what he needs to do.

I'd actually like to thank Jason La Canfora for trying to help a brotha out. Vinny, put down the MAD magazine and pick up the newspaper and learn something, you dunce.

I think the JLC haters would rather have Larry Michael or George Michael working for the Post. They would get their Snyderatto propaganda and believe it is actual hard hitting journalism.

[maskedsuperstar]

It is hard to criticize the Skins for getting a pretty good player in Heyer. Obviously JLC still doesn't believe that Heyer will ever be anything, but I think he's a damn good player for what we gave up for him (nothing).

As for Gaither, the supplemental draft is pretty much a shot in the dark. Everyone submits what pick they will give up for a player, and whoever is higher in the draft order. To get Gaither (which Baltimore gave up a 5th round pick), we would have had to have given up a 4th...Whoops, didn't have one in 2008. A 3rd then. That's a lot to give up for supplemental picks, which you don't usually have the advantage of working out and rarely work out.

I look at the Giants OL. 2 UDFA, 5th, 3rd, and a 2nd. Fans think that a UDFA can't play. Not true. Heyer can play. He needs more experience. Winston Justice, a 2nd round pick, doesn't even play. And the Eagles FO is supposed to be the best?

The Skins practice squad was raided by other teams. That tells me a lot. My only gripe is that the Skins need to get these younger guys on the field, and they don't. That needs to change.

[TheLongshot]

I'm not a fan of JLC, I don't know anybody who is, but I think he has got it right here with his "un-named" sources. Sure it was probably by accident, but got it right he did. The Redskins must stop restructuring these monstrous contracts (although the reason they do so is to keep them under the cap) and get rid of some of the guys. They must start drafting a minimum of two to three linemen (offense or defense) every year, until this team is over run with young talented guys who can control the line of scrimmage. This process will probably take around six to seven years, after which you can pick one or two given on the talent and the need out there.

Course, one thing that is misunderstood about the restructuring is that it has been mostly about the financial plan, for the most part. It has always been about working the salary cap to get the most from it.

I don't think there are too many vets that the Skins have to hold on to because of contracts that they don't want anymore and the one that comes to mind (Jansen) is more the fault of the FO for giving him a new deal rather than any restructuring.

[SirClintonPortis]

Unfortunately, Snyderatto does not have this same philosophy. Never had it. Probably never will.

So do many Redskins fans(Not saying you're one of them). They will always be scratching their heads as to why every franchise QB drafted is always becoming a bust.

[maskedsuperstar]

still cant believe how many people whine about JLC. The Redskins deserve this type of press because the franchise is a billion dollar joke. The Cardinals are in the super bowl while the Redskins still cant score points, protect the QB, nor put any type of pressure on the QB. These same three issues have been the theme year after year after year. Oh wait... Snider just sold another jersey.

The Cardinals are in the Super Bowl because the NFC west sucks. The Cardinals had the only winning record in the division. Are you kidding?

Pressuring the QB? Thats on Blache.

When a team changes systems every year, scoring points would be hard.

Protecting the QB only became an issue this past season. Where have you been? In fact, the Skins had one of the best OL, until last year. It caught up with them.

[jrfriedm]

Course, one thing that is misunderstood about the restructuring is that it has been mostly about the financial plan, for the most part. It has always been about working the salary cap to get the most from it.

I'm not a fan of JLC, I don't know anybody who is, but I think he has got it right here with his "un-named" sources. Sure it was probably by accident, but got it right he did. The Redskins must stop restructuring these monstrous contracts (although the reason they do so is to keep them under the cap) and get rid of some of the guys. They must start drafting a minimum of two to three linemen (offense or defense) every year, until this team is over run with young talented guys who can control the line of scrimmage. This process will probably take around six to seven years, after which you can pick one or two given on the talent and the need out there.

Obviously, I agree with you, however; if you are going to quote me please read what I wrote. I don't know how else to say it any clearer, but I'll try to break it down Barnney style for you. The Redskins, Snyder and Cerrato, continually restructure the higher priced contracts in order to make room under the cap for the current year. Unfortunately, this only postpones the inevitable that sooner or later they are going to have to pay the piper and the cap hit is only getting worse every year.

Does that help? Do you understand what I am saying now, or do you need it Teletubbies style?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Seriously, are you JLC haters delusional? This article is spot on in every aspect.

To prove he is not just hating, he has actual quotes from actual NFL executives backing up his opinions. Also, what about the quotes from our own players? Our own team can't figure out what the hell Snyeratto is doing.

It's not grinding an axe when it's the ****ing truth.

It actually appears JLC is trying to help Vinny out a bit. Actual quotes from REAL NFL executives on what he needs to do.

I'd actually like to thank Jason La Canfora for trying to help a brotha out. Vinny, put down the MAD magazine and pick up the newspaper and learn something, you dunce.

I agree. I think JLC can be spiteful at times and I also think he's a giant tool, but this article was very well-written and full of extremely interesting observations.

Just because he does not name his sources, does not mean that they aren't real. He has Redskin players, Redskin coaches, Redskin organizational people, other NFL team executives, etc. all pretty much saying the same things.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Either Vinny has to change his approach or we need to find a GM that will adopt the line-first philosophy.

[Popeman38]

JLC is a self-admitted Ravens fan. The Ravens, you will remember, prior to this year had not won a playoff game since they beat the Dolphins in the 2001 Wild Card round. Not exactly a barn burner by any standard.

Let's examine the last 8 seasons for both teams. First, JLCs Ravens:

2001 - 10-6 WC, Lost AFC Div round (1 win)

2002 - 7-9 DNQ

2003 - 10-6 AFCN Champs, Lost AFC WC

2004 - 9-7 DNQ

2005 - 6-10 DNQ

2006 - 13-3 AFCN Champs-#2 seed (bye), Lost AFC Div round

2007 - 5-11 DNQ

2008 - 11-5 WC, Lost AFCCG (2 wins)

TOTAL: 71-59, 4 playoff appearances, 3 wins, 2 div titles, 0 SB

Now, the Skins:

2001 - 8-8 DNQ

2002 - 7-9 DNQ

2003 - 5-11 DNQ

2004 - 6-10 DNQ

2005 - 10-6 WC, Lost NFC Div round (1 win)

2006 - 5-11 DNQ

2007 - 9-7 WC, Lost WC round

2008 - 8-8 DNQ

TOTAL: 58-70, 2 playoff appearances, 1 win, 0 div titles, 0 SB

Now, I will admit that the Ravens are 12 games over .500, while we are 12 games under. However, they also play the Bengals and Browns twice a year. Not exactly the Eagles and Giants (Cowboys and Steelers are the main rivals, throw them out). That basically equates to a 4-2 division record almost every season. It is very easy to go 2-4 in the NFCE.

The Ravens have had the benefit of having a true GM the whole time in Ozzie. The Redskins, for the first time this season, employed a GM, basically. Vinnie knows talent. His track record is good when he is given control (SF and Notre Dame). He made 10 picks last year, and all but 1 spent the entire season with the team.

I respect the Ravens (though I hate them), and the fans were great this year when we went up there. They have the perfect sized stadium to keep the core fans, but they have no history. In the next 70 years, they will have a 20 year stretch like the Skins have had. EVERY team does, even the vaunted Steelers and 49ers.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

JLC is a self-admitted Ravens fan. The Ravens, you will remember, prior to this year had not won a playoff game since they beat the Dolphins in the 2001 Wild Card round. Not exactly a barn burner by any standard.

Let's examine the last 8 seasons for both teams. First, JLCs Ravens:

2001 - 10-6 WC, Lost AFC Div round (1 win)

2002 - 7-9 DNQ

2003 - 10-6 AFCN Champs, Lost AFC WC

2004 - 9-7 DNQ

2005 - 6-10 DNQ

2006 - 13-3 AFCN Champs-#2 seed (bye), Lost AFC Div round

2007 - 5-11 DNQ

2008 - 11-5 WC, Lost AFCCG (2 wins)

TOTAL: 71-59, 4 playoff appearances, 3 wins, 2 div titles, 0 SB

Now, the Skins:

2001 - 8-8 DNQ

2002 - 7-9 DNQ

2003 - 5-11 DNQ

2004 - 6-10 DNQ

2005 - 10-6 WC, Lost NFC Div round (1 win)

2006 - 5-11 DNQ

2007 - 9-7 WC, Lost WC round

2008 - 8-8 DNQ

TOTAL: 58-70, 2 playoff appearances, 1 win, 0 div titles, 0 SB

Now, I will admit that the Ravens are 12 games over .500, while we are 12 games under. However, they also play the Bengals and Browns twice a year. Not exactly the Eagles and Giants (Cowboys and Steelers are the main rivals, throw them out). That basically equates to a 4-2 division record almost every season. It is very easy to go 2-4 in the NFCE.

The Ravens have had the benefit of having a true GM the whole time in Ozzie. The Redskins, for the first time this season, employed a GM, basically. Vinnie knows talent. His track record is good when he is given control (SF and Notre Dame). He made 10 picks last year, and all but 1 spent the entire season with the team.

I respect the Ravens (though I hate them), and the fans were great this year when we went up there. They have the perfect sized stadium to keep the core fans, but they have no history. In the next 70 years, they will have a 20 year stretch like the Skins have had. EVERY team does, even the vaunted Steelers and 49ers.

That's some good analysis, but it basically proves JLC's point. Even in a less-than-impressive stretch for Baltimore, they're 12 games OVER .500 while we're 12-games UNDER .500. You can discuss divisional opponents and all, but until 2004, the NFC East sucked just as bad (if not worse) than the AFC North.

I guess what I'm saying is that your well-thought out post simply provides excuses for the Redskins while confirming that the Ravens have been a much stronger team (by 24 games over 8 seasons...3 wins per year better).

[Pounds]

The Cardinals are in the Super Bowl because the NFC west sucks. The Cardinals had the only winning record in the division.

Spot on. They are examples of the product the NFL fields; they are just mere beneficiaries of new-era NFL parity.

Pressuring the QB? Thats on Blache.

Exactly. Blache and his archaic philosophies serve as the sole hindrances of our defense. He has mismanaged our d-line personnel and secondary personnel.

When a team changes systems every year' date=' scoring points would be hard.[/quote']

This would normally be seen as an undeniable reality, yet people seem to miss it, instead choosing more contrived arguments.

Protecting the QB only became an issue this past season. Where have you been? In fact' date=' the Skins had one of the best OL, until last year. It caught up with them.[/quote']

I disagree. This only magnified now, though, by the fact that Jason only exacerbates the issue. The offensive line, both in pass and run blocking has had issues since 2006.

[stwasm]

Draft? It is a crap shoot. I think the Skins should build through the draft. But Vinny and other GM's have no idea how these players are going to play on Sundays. The point is that the Skins drafted 10 players. And fans loved it. But since the rookies didn't make an immediate impact, Vinny didn't do his job. Every team misses on players. Some teams get lucky and get immediate production. But out of last years draft class, name 10 players that had an immediate impact. I can think of 4. Chris Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Matt Ryan, and Donnie Avery. How many college kids were drafted?

I didn't expect any of the rookies to make an immediate impact. But Horton did. Moore came on at the end of the season. We can't judge this draft class in 1 year.

Now, lets see what Vinny does in the draft to fix the OL and DL. I hope they are not busy in FA, again. Lets see how many fans whine about that, again.

ALL of the New York Giants' draft picks contributed to their Super Bowl run in 2007. The problem is, when you give away all of your draft picks for players who best days are behind them, it makes it even more vital for the team to have a good draft. When only one draft pick contributes significantly year-to-year (Chris Horton), it stands out more because there's very little depth as the team gets older.

[eljeasel]

JLC was wearing his Todd Heap jersey when he wrote this.

And just one quick note... We DID follow the Falcons, Ravens, and Miami by getting a new coach and changing our game plans drastically. (We just got pushed around and out-coached during the second half of the year.)

All three of these teams had new QBs... but article discusses the need to draft more lineman if you want to win games. Don't tell that to the Falcons or Ravens though. They both only drafted one lineman a PIECE last season.

Bingo. A one year turn around doesnt have much to do with a draft.

Miami was ravaged by injuries and didnt have a QB. Coming into the season healthy and some moved tuna made (picking up Pennington from FA) coupled with some of the moves made the previous season like picking up Porter are all reasons. Most of the last year's draft picks were inactive or had minimal contributions. Not to mention having a coach who clearly is a better HC than Cameron.

ATL had Joey Harrington for QB and more importantly a HC who didnt want to be there in Snake Petrino last year. I think you make the better case for ATL's drafting being the reason for their success but you cant discount the HC change.

[Elessar78]

"Before last season, the Redskins added 14 new players to the opening day roster but only one, safety Chris Horton, a seventh-round draft pick, made a significant contribution. The other nine draft picks, plus acquisitions such as Jason Taylor, Erasmus James, Alfred Fincher and Justin Hamilton, did not meet expectations. That left a heavy burden on veterans, who could not build upon a 6-2 start."

this is a pretty telling quote from the article. I think it speaks to the importance of depth in one's roster. Injuries happen and players wear down through the course of a 16 game season. In a league where one play can matter so much, we need guys that can play when called upon.

[Oldfan]

JLC made a very weak argument. He selected three teams that had turnaround years and manufactured a case for his pet theory about building the lines first.

If the Ravens approach is so successful, why is their franchise record barely above .500? Where is the evidence that Atlanta built their O line first? Sam Baker played six games.

Are we supposed to ignore the evidence that the turnarounds of these teams this season had more to do with other causes unmentioned? The QB upgrades, for example.

Turnover ratios seldom repeat from year to year. Miami was +17 this year. Watch them slump next year.

Baltimore's defense had 34 takeaways this season. That's one less than Gregg Williams' Jaguars (17) and Greg Blache's Redskins (18) put together.

[Warpath11]

Hey Oldfan quick question regarding the NE philosophy on the draft. I think you are the most farmiliar with it so I ask you this question. I am not sure if it was you or not but doesn't NE epitomize the BPA approach? yet according to JLC...

"Atlanta owner Arthur Blank hired Tom Dimitroff, who helped build New England's dynasty as director of college scouting. Dimitroff worked directly under Bill Belichick, New England's head coach."

goes on to say this...

Dimitroff espouses a "need-specific" draft philosophy he learned in New England, one based on "system-specific scouting." Cerrato has always spoken of taking "the best player available," and has said trades and free agency are at least equally important as the draft.

Do you happen to agree with what JLC has written here about NE and their draft strategy?

[RFKFedEx]

I'm telling you this team needs a 3-13 kind of year in 2009. The climate will be perfect for a total house cleaning in 2010, including Vinny. Lets hope.

Otherwise another 8-8 year will only lead to yet another year of Vinny telling us that "we're almost there, look at the AZ, they were 8-8 and made it to the SB".

[Bzapf]

He may be right but I stopped reading after Jason La....

[jayl1985]

JLC made a very weak argument. He selected three teams that had turnaround years and manufactured a case for his pet theory about building the lines first.

If the Ravens approach is so successful, why is their franchise record barely above .500? Where is the evidence that Atlanta built their O line first? Sam Baker played six games.

Are we supposed to ignore the evidence that the turnarounds of these teams this season had more to do with other causes unmentioned? The QB upgrades, for example.

Turnover ratios seldom repeat from year to year. Miami was +17 this year. Watch them slump next year.

Baltimore's defense had 34 takeaways this season. That's one less than Gregg William's Jaguars (17) and Greg Blache's Redskins (18) put together.

The ravens defense is built better than our entire team if you really think about it. For the past decade they haven't had many down years or much fall off at multiple positions or many over-paid veterans who don't produce.

[Mr. Grundle]

Are we supposed to ignore the evidence that the turnarounds of these teams this season had more to do with other causes unmentioned? The QB upgrades, for example.

Turnover ratios seldom repeat from year to year. Miami was +17 this year. Watch them slump next year.

Baltimore's defense had 34 takeaways this season. That's one less than Gregg William's Jaguars (17) and Greg Blache's Redskins (18) put together.

Turnover differential is directly correlated to line play. I think most would agree that protecting the QB and pressuring the opposing teams QB is probably the biggest factor in having a positive turnover ratio.

Wait, so the teams that JLC claimed to emphasize on drafting linemen had a positive turnover ratio?

Good observation there, Oldfan.

[e16bball]

Well, this isn't entirely true. How many players did the Skins draft? 10!!! When was the last time that happened? Taylor? Okay, 2 DE's went down, on the first day of training camp. 90% of this board was all for it. We are talking about a player that has had the most sacks since 2000. But when things didn't work, Vinny was the bad guy.

Of course he was the bad guy. Only if you were CONVINCED that the Redskins were a DE (and a prototype RE that was redundant with Carter, I should add) away from being true Super Bowl contenders should that trade have been made. The Taylor trade was a bust waiting to happen, and it came home to roost in a big way. It honestly makes no difference to me what "90% of this board" thought, because in my experience, 90% of this board is wrong about a LOT of things.

Skins weren't players in FA, last year. Fans had the nerve to whine. I couldn't believe it.

I'm with you here, in terms of being surprised and dismayed at the reaction of many Redskins fans. At least with regard to the folks who, from April to January extol the virtues of hoarding draft picks and claim to hate free agency, but then catch the Redskins One bug late each February.

Personally, I wasn't that upset, but only because the FA market was pretty dry last year. If there had been more attractive players out there, I would have been clamoring for a move. I'll be clamoring for a Gross signing this year, if he beats the tag.

Look at the DL that were drafted last year. Gholston, a top 10 pick, didn't play. How much $$$$$ did the Jets give him? Glenn Dorsey, a top 5 pick, was almost cut in training camp. Albert, a top 10 pick, never played for the KC Chiefs. So, thats 2 first round players that didn't even make an impact. KC had how many picks high round picks last year? Now, we know why Carl Peterson quit.

Gholston was converted to LB, so that makes that comparison a little spotty.

Not sure how you reach the conclusion that Albert never played, when he started 15 games. And Dorsey must be one of the best stories in NFL history, recovering from the brink of being cut to start every game and pile up more tackles than any DT on our roster...50% more, in fact.

Even when it looks like the Skins are going in the right direction, fans whine. I'm tired of reading about these unnamed sources. Man up or shut up!!!! Hail Skins!!!!!!!!

I'm just not sure how you can conclude that they're heading in the right direction. They've got FOUR picks in the upcoming draft. One of which they sacrificed in a move that was eerily reminsicent of the 2000 grab of Bruce Smith, which you would have thought they'd have learned from (even though Bruce actually wasn't AS bad as 'Skins fans make him out to be). But instead of learning, they not only duplicated the move, they took it to the next level by moving Taylor to the other side! It was a move largely in keeping with Einstein's definition of insanity.

I'd love to believe the FO is moving in the right direction, and perhaps they are. But until I see actual moves that indicate a shift in philosophy, and not just soft talk, it's hard to buy a "change."

I definitely agree with the bolded portion, though.

[BAFGA]

I'm just not sure how you can conclude that they're heading in the right direction. They've got FOUR picks in the upcoming draft. One of which they sacrificed in a move that was eerily reminsicent of the 2000 grab of Bruce Smith, which you would have thought they'd have learned from (even though Bruce actually wasn't AS bad as 'Skins fans make him out to be). But instead of learning, they not only duplicated the move, they took it to the next level by moving Taylor to the other side! It was a move largely in keeping with Einstein's definition of insanity.

I'd love to believe the FO is moving in the right direction, and perhaps they are. But until I see actual moves that indicate a shift in philosophy, and not just soft talk, it's hard to buy a "change."

I don't think they'll ever move in the right direction. Let's not forget that they almost gave up the farm (per this article) for Ocho Cinco and they tried to make a play for Boldin, too. That's not a shift in philosophy. That's steady as she goes on the Good Ship Insanity.