We Have to Hold Onto Jim Zorn

[Oldfan]

Let's hope that Dan and Vinny have plenty of patience with Jim Zorn as their head coach because the man gives the Skins an edge over the competition. I'll explain:

When coaching youth football and baseball, many coaches start boys off with one knee on the ground when teaching them to throw. I started my sons, grandsons and other people's boys off with both knees on the ground. Not too long ago, I heard Dan Marino say that his father started him off with both knees down.

A young athlete who gets no instruction will find his own way to throw. If practiced enough, he can get pretty good results from poor techniques but his potential is limited.

My point here is that "mechanics" have a direct relationship to result. There are advantages and disadvantages to each basic style, but the results are predictable. If you know what to look for, you can spot talent in minutes. It took me 15 minutes to decide that Jay Cutler is the most talented QB I've ever seen. He's beautiful to watch. He's the kind of gifted athlete who could play any position on a baseball field and his mechanics are super.

In talking about Colt Brennan in a press conference, Jim Zorn put his hands about eight inches apart to describe Colt's potential right now, then extended his hands to eighteen inches to illustrate how better mechanics would increase his chances of making it in the NFL. In my not-so-humble opinion, both Colt and Jason are excellent athletes, but neither would have much of a chance of making the grade without Jim's Zorn's help.

Jason has a great attitude and worked hard, setting a fine example for Colt to follow. Jim Zorn tells us that there is more work ahead, but Jason Campbell looked much quicker and more compact this season, a different QB that the one that came out of Auburn.

So, we need to keep Jim Zorn here because he gives us an edge over the 31 other NFL teams. He's like a pitching coach in MLB who's way ahead of the curve.

[RocketCitySkins]

So, we need to keep Jim Zorn here because he gives us an edge over the 31 other NFL teams. He's like a pitching coach in MLB who's way ahead of the curve.

I'm not impressed. He improved JC's footwork but that's all.

[Rhodus333]

All i know is i saw Campbell actually SLIDE in the 49ers game!! SLIDE!!!!! He must be improving!!!

[ttr77]

You just described the perfect QB coach.

[RedlightG20]

My question for you is... what exactly does Zorn bring to the table that Gibbs hasn't?

People forget that Gibbs was also an excellent QB coach. He's worked with JC for a few years. Now Zorn is working with him.

Personally, I think whatever we've gotten out of JC at this point is all we're going to get.

[#98QBKiller]

You just described the perfect QB coach.

Lol that's what I thought too.

I agree that we need to hold onto Zorn. We'll never build a contending franchise by pushing coaching in and out of the revolving door that has been Redskins Park.

Zorn has proven that he can be a good coach. An 8-8 record isn't horrible for a rookie head coach if you look at history and the records of rookie head coaches, no matter the talent level of the team they inherited.

The true test comes next season, can Zorn learn from his mistakes? Can he get the most out of the offseason evaluation process? Can he have a successful offseason that will help strengthen the weak areas on this team?

Those to me are more important issues than Campbell or Colt's mechanics.

[IbleedBnG83]

There are certain unmeasurables that can't be taught no matter how gifted an athlete. I feel that Colt's potential, especially under this system, is far grader and can be reached sooner than JC, on top of having certain qualities that JC lacks. I like JC, but I think we can get more out of Colt, and by extension, would extend Zorn's career here as the HC.

[Oldfan]

I'm not impressed. He improved JC's footwork but that's all.

It's not possible to improve only one part. The throwing motion is one piece, ground up.

[ttr77]

The true test comes next season, can Zorn learn from his mistakes? Can he get the most out of the offseason evaluation process? Can he have a successful offseason that will help strengthen the weak areas on this team?

Those to me are more important issues than Campbell or Colt's mechanics.

Agreed. Zorn needs to reverse whatever trends that led to the 2-6 finish. If this team doesn't take a major step forward in his second year, I think he'll be done here.

[Oldfan]

You just described the perfect QB coach.

Yes, but it wasn't possible to bring him here from Seattle for a lateral transfer.

[RocketCitySkins]

It's not possible to improve only one part. The throwing motion is one piece, ground up.

All Zorn mentioned when asked about JC's progress was his footwork. He didn't say anything about his throwing motion.

"Zorn said. "Once the offseason program starts we'll be able to do some scheme work. ... His footwork was poor when we got here, it's gotten a lot better, and it's going to get a lot better this offseason because of the stuff we're going to ask him to work on."

[Oldfan]

My question for you is... what exactly does Zorn bring to the table that Gibbs hasn't?

People forget that Gibbs was also an excellent QB coach. He's worked with JC for a few years. Now Zorn is working with him.

Personally, I think whatever we've gotten out of JC at this point is all we're going to get.

Joe Gibbs belongs in that group of coaches that minimize the importance of mechanics. He did nothing for Campbell. When Saunders got here, he said that Jason needed to work on his mechanics in the offseason. Gibbs said it was no big deal.

[Zguy28]

Campbell windup is too big and takes too long. If he could learn to 3-step and fire like Tom Brady maybe he could get it done.

And of course have his passes on target (how can you miss 6 yard passes??).

[Oldfan]

All Zorn mentioned when asked about JC's progress was his footwork. He didn't say anything about his throwing motion.

"Zorn said. "Once the offseason program starts we'll be able to do some scheme work. ... His footwork was poor when we got here, it's gotten a lot better, and it's going to get a lot better this offseason because of the stuff we're going to ask him to work on."

It isn't possible to explain everything about QB mechanics in one comment. Try a simple experiment: Throw a ball the way you usually do, then try throwing it at the same arm angle with different footwork. You'll find you can't do it and maintain balance.

[Oldfan]

Campbell windup is too big and takes too long.

That was last year. He's much quicker now.

Jason is a lanky guy with long arms. He's never going to be as quick as Drew Brees, but then Drew Brees is never going to hurt you deep.

[ttr77]

Yes, but it wasn't possible to bring him here from Seattle for a lateral transfer.

Ah come on now...this could have been done. The rules are completely bendable here.

[Rhodus333]

He's never going to be as quick as Drew Brees, but then Drew Brees is never going to hurt you deep.

That's not what your mother said last night TREBECK!! BWAHAHAHA:nana:

[zoony]

Oldfan, I think proper mechanics and throwing ability are a small part of what makes a QB successful at this level. Because lets face it, if you get to the NFL, you can sling the rock. Sure, you can always work to improve things, especially footwork at this level... but by and large the QB's who can do it consistently in this league have won the mental game.

They can make lightning-quick reads. They can see almost instantly after the ball is snapped what the defense is doing and where the weakness will be. Who will have single coverage and who will be doubled. Where the safeties and LBers will be, and where not to go with the football. Anticipating who will come open and when, and the proper timing of the throw.

So you can have some of the best mechanics in the world, and if you don't get that, you're destined to fail. Which is why QB is the single hardest position to scout... because imo, some things you just can't coach. Either the guy gets it or he doesn't. Because if it could be coached (as mechanics can be), pretty much every team would have a quality starter.

.......

[Oldfan]

Ah come on now...this could have been done. The rules are completely bendable here.

I don't think they are, but even so, why would Zorn want to move his family for a lateral transfer?

[TWINSKINS]

Erm,given the choice of Brees or Campbell im going with Brees!!

In fact there might not be many here backing Campbell,improved footwork or not.

[zoony]

He's never going to be as quick as Drew Brees, but then Drew Brees is never going to hurt you deep.

Jason is one of the worst long-ball passers in the league imo.

And his release is among the slowest in the league, even if it has improved from where it was.

[33]

Zorn (before this season) had worked with Hasselbeck and Charlie Batch on the professional level (you can obviously add Trent Dilfer, Seneca Wallace, and whoever backed up Batch in Detroit). Hasselbeck was a Brett Favre backup, which seems to instantly increase the likelihood of a QB being an eventual starter.

My question, is do we actually know that Jim Zorn is that great of a QB coach? And, is improving JC's mechanics really that big of an accomplishment?

In some ways, it sounds like you (Oldfan) are simply saying, "It's a good thing that Joe Gibbs is gone in regards to Jason Campbell's mechanics." I have to assume that 8/10 QB coaches care about mechanics, and another 8/10 of those can actually improve them.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Lol that's what I thought too.

I agree that we need to hold onto Zorn. We'll never build a contending franchise by pushing coaching in and out of the revolving door that has been Redskins Park.

Zorn has proven that he can be a good coach. An 8-8 record isn't horrible for a rookie head coach if you look at history and the records of rookie head coaches, no matter the talent level of the team they inherited.

The true test comes next season, can Zorn learn from his mistakes? Can he get the most out of the offseason evaluation process? Can he have a successful offseason that will help strengthen the weak areas on this team?

Those to me are more important issues than Campbell or Colt's mechanics.

Absolutely second this. Oldfan is right, we do need to hold onto Zorn -- but for reasons far more important than the work he's done on JC's mechanics (although that is important in its own right). Holding onto Zorn gives us some continuity. Continuity will do a lot for this offense next year. A second season figuring out who goes where, and as Pete Kendall said just recently, understanding the "verbiage" of this WCO should produce better results than we've just seen.

Personally I'd like to see Zorn relinquish one of his hats next year, however. Head coach/playcaller/QB coach is a bit much, especially given his inexperience at two of those levels. I would love it if they brought in a West Coast OC to call the shots; he and JZ could game-plan and then he could direct the attack from the booth within the parameters set by Zorn. That would free a little of his attention up to perhaps be more aggressive and creative in his schemes, as well as leaving him more time to spend in attention to detail re: his QB and the team during games.

Maybe that way we don't have as many clock/game situation mishaps next year. Maybe that way Jason finally takes the next step from game manager to game changer.

[SirClintonPortis]

Zorn (before this season) had worked with Hasselbeck and Charlie Batch on the professional level (you can obviously add Trent Dilfer, Seneca Wallace, and whoever backed up Batch in Detroit). Hasselbeck was a Brett Favre backup, which seems to instantly increase the likelihood of a QB being an eventual starter.

My question, is do we actually know that Jim Zorn is that great of a QB coach? And, is improving JC's mechanics really that big of an accomplishment?

In some ways, it sounds like you (Oldfan) are simply saying, "It's a good thing that Joe Gibbs is gone in regards to Jason Campbell's mechanics." I have to assume that 8/10 QB coaches care about mechanics, and another 8/10 of those can actually improve them.

Hasslebeck wasn't that good early on. It's not like Favre was teaching him anything while he was at Green Bay. Hasslebeck was benched for Dilfer. Dilfer has stated that he improved under Zorn. Dilfer's nothing impressive, but had he had Zorn earlier in his career, things may have turned out better for his career.

[TheLongshot]

They can make lightning-quick reads. They can see almost instantly after the ball is snapped what the defense is doing and where the weakness will be. Who will have single coverage and who will be doubled. Where the safeties and LBers will be, and where not to go with the football. Anticipating who will come open and when, and the proper timing of the throw.

Actually, I think this is an area where Campbell has improved. Most of the time, he does seem to find the right receiver. I say "seem" because we don't see everything on the field, but I haven't seen him make too many mistakes as far as throwing to covered receivers. It is the reason why his turnovers have gone down.

Now, he still needs to make those decisions quicker and throw the ball more accurately and on time. The former will come with everyone gaining a comfort level in the offense. The latter will come with working on his mechanics further so that it will become second nature for him.

I don't know if he'll get there, but these problems are not insurmountable.