monkeezgob Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I can't say I agree with the original poster. Zorn simply has to decide what he wants to be. A qb coach, an oc, or a head coach. At the moment he's trying to juggle all three and I really think thats hurting the team. He needs to have confidence in his staff and employ a qb coach he can trust and delegate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Zorn's comments about players not being ready didn't register with me as complaints, merely statements of fact. As a fan, I appreciate the information.As to why they weren't up to speed, he didn't give me enough information to allow me to form an opinion on blame. Is the scheme too difficult? Are the assistant coaches teaching it poorly? Are the players dumb? Is it a combination of all three? As for the players being possibly dumb. IMO be different if it was just one of the rookies but ALL THREE? OK I accept that not every receiver gets it right away like the receivers drafted right around where they drafted theirs: Royal, Avery, or Jackson the TE's like Carlson and I forgot the name of the Cowboys one, etc. But how about some minimal production like Jordy Nelson who had over 30 catches, caught some Td's, etc? As for taking shots at the Wr's, agree he wasn't too harsh with the rhetoric. But he did hit the Wr's publicly for being out of shape, said that he doesn't trust Davis to play him, etc. I recall him in one interview during the pre season mocking Kelly's and Thomas' bravado for thinking they "get it." Be one thing if the team was laden with stud Wr's and the young guys don't have to be serviceable for awhile, let teams like the Eagles, Cowboys, Broncos, Seahawks, Rams enjoy the spoils of having receivers up to speed. But the Skins need a WR just as badly as those teams, arguably more than most of them. Thomas was regarded as the top receiver by most of the draft geeks, Kelly was mostly well regarded, there were some concerns about his knees and speed. Thomas was usually ranked in the top 3 for TEs, some had him #1. You would think one of these guys can put up Jordy Nelson type of numbers at least, especially in this lineup, is it that tough to beat James Thrash for some starting time? Though I do agree that it takes 2-3 years for the typical WR to blossom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Holding onto Jim Zorn because he is a good QB coach, but a terribly ineffectual coordinator and head coach, isn't the most sound strategy. A great pitching coach is invaluable in baseball, but that's because they can focus 100% of their attention/time on pitcher's mechanics, which would not be the case if they were elevated to Manager or GM positions. Unfortunately Zorn is attempting to be the QB coach, the de facto OC, and the HFC... and so far he's demonstrably awful on two of those fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Holding onto Jim Zorn because he is a good QB coach, but a terribly ineffectual coordinator and head coach, isn't the most sound strategy. A great pitching coach is invaluable in baseball, but that's because they can focus 100% of their attention/time on pitcher's mechanics, which would not be the case if they were elevated to Manager or GM positions. Unfortunately Zorn is attempting to be the QB coach, the de facto OC, and the HFC... and so far he's demonstrably awful on two of those fronts. Totally agree. If Zorn wants to work so closely with Campbell and focus on his development then we should employ him as qb coach and hire a new HC who will focus on more strategic decisions and development. Zorn needs to start trusting his staff and delegating if he wants to be a success as a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 This is such mularkey. Year in and year out players change teams and systems in the NFL.Only when players come to the Washington Redskins, do we get the worn out excuse that they need 2-3 years to learn the system BS.....especially when it comes to offense. Once again, Gregg Williams' defense was regarded around the league as being complicated,with various packages and exotic blitzes,yet performed as a top three unit in 2004 in it's first season of implementation. The whole "learn the system BS" is just another excuse for ineptitude. And that goes for both players and coaches.:2cents: You can't compare learning the WCO to learning a defense. There's much more difficulty involved. I do agree that it's a factor often exaggerated, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Holding onto Jim Zorn because he is a good QB coach, but a terribly ineffectual coordinator and head coach, isn't the most sound strategy. Of course not, but I saw no evidence to convnce me that he won't make a very good coach. I saw areas where he can certainly improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I will agree with the OP in that I think a bit of patience needs to be displayed in regards to Zorn as a first year head coach; I'm glad to see Danny and Vinny being willing to do this by not taking the quick out, firing him, and going after another coach, most likely a big name (something we saw several posters on this board pleading for these past several weeks). I think getting rid of Zorn this quickly would have been a colossal mistake. I believe consistency and stability within an organization are extremely important and most teams (with some exceptions) are going to go through growing pains within any type of transistion. I would also say that I trust Zorn more than anyone else currently with the Redskins right now to be the most qualified in evaluating QB mechanics and potential. And of course Oldfan is correct with everything said about proper mechanics: an athlete can get away with using improper mechanics up until a certain level, then they plateau and have little chance of improving to keep up with the game. I've seen this happen in my sport's (softball) pitching all the time as both a player who pitched and now a coach who helps with pitching training. Regardless, I think Zorn is the most qualified to determine which quarterback has the best ability to improve and succeed in his system, whether that be Colt or JC...it doesn't really matter to me at this point. Although it is kind comical to sit back and watch people post who think they have all the answers with our current QB situation. Anyway, I agree that we needed to hold on to Zorn for at least another season. We can see how things develop and see how he is able to work with the players this offseason as well and improving his own play calling. That being said, if after next season we see that no improvements are being made and Zorn has effectively stalled our team's growth, then I don't think we HAVE to hold onto him as our HC. Basically, I'm more than willing to exercise some patience with him in this next season and possibly (depending on the level of improvement) the following season, but if we continue to plateau or even digress, then I disagree that we "have to hold on to Zorn," regardless of his ability to develop QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You just described the perfect QB coach. Exactly. I'm all for keeping him as a QB coach, but not as a head coach or even the offesive cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 All i know is i saw Campbell actually SLIDE in the 49ers game!! SLIDE!!!!! He must be improving!!! He runs defensive backs over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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