Are the DE the problem?

[kmast000]

I keep seeing post that state that our DE's are the problem with the pass rush. After watching these guys play once Taylor has been healthy and back on the field I am not so sure they are the problem. Both Taylor and Carter attack off the edges and end up where the QB should be. They are both very fast and get there in a hurry. The problem is that the QB is just taking a step up in the pocket and the DE's are just getting rode out. I played OT and this is exactly as it should go. Our DT's are just not getting a push and colapsing the pocket. If we had one DT who could push into the backfield and create a little presure up the middle the QB would not be allowed to step up and our DE's would be getting more sacks. Does anybody else see this besides me? :2cents:

[ktfirehouse]

absolutely, it seems as if our DT's are trying to play a little bit of DE and constantly run around the offensive line instead of jamming them into the QB face! This should be something that should have been address a long time ago by the Def. Coor.

[TimmySmith]

Due to the lack of blitzing, the opponent can double team both ends. And does.

Taylor either gets a sack, or is a mile away from the play. I have not noticed him getting any "hurries".

It's just difficult to get pressure on the QB when you are double teamed every play. And certainly wears you down to a point that you become a non factor in the 4th quarter.

[Chump Bailey]

If we had one DT who could push into the backfield and create a little presure up the middle the QB would not be allowed to step up and our DE's would be getting more sacks. Does anybody else see this besides me? :2cents:

I think the majority of us feel that way too. Heck, even Vinny said as much last season that he liked our DE situation and that they needed to find someone to get pressure in the middle. Marcus Stroud was out there for the taking and they should have made a move. I think that would have made a tremendous difference on the line. We could have landed him for similar value that we dealt to Miami for Taylor.

We need to find out if James and Jackson can play also - I think they can.

[poison5335]

we should use golston and montgomery. then trade griffin he's getting old. golston and montgomery together provide a good combination of strength and speed.

[kmast000]

I don't think Golston and Montgomery are the answer either. Neither one seem to push the pocket backwards. We need a big body person that can push the middle back. Not sure we have a player on the roster right now that can be effective. I know it's a long shot but if Haynesworth is available after this season we should go after him.

[justice98]

A DT capable of getting a push would probably do wonders for our DE. Our DTs hold their ground ok, they just don't get a push.

[PeterMP]

I\Both Taylor and Carter attack off the edges and end up where the QB should be. They are both very fast and get there in a hurry.

Really good DE's have more than one move (e.g. they do more than attack off the edges). They can bull rush, spin and etc. These guys appear to be MAYBE okay DE's when it comes to rushing the QB. Essentially, the samething can be said for the DT's (well maybe the DT's are worse than the DE's, but they aren't awful individually either).

When you pair the two together you get little pass rush.

They need one dominant player at either position, DT or DE, and their pass rush would be a lot better.

[KDawg]

Everyone is so quick to discount one major difference between this season and last season when Andre Carter played very well...

We're missing Phillip Daniels opposite him. Having two small DEs that don't demand to be doubled doesn't free either of them up, and because they are both smaller DEs they get driven off the play.

[PeterMP]

Everyone is so quick to discount one major difference between this season and last season when Andre Carter played very well...

We're missing Phillip Daniels opposite him. Having two small DEs that don't demand to be doubled doesn't free either of them up, and because they are both smaller DEs they get driven off the play.

NOBODY was doubling Daniels on passing downs last year.

[KDawg]

NOBODY was doubling Daniels on passing downs last year.

I'm not saying he was doubled. What I am saying is we have no one that demands a double team opposite either of the smaller DEs. I added the tidbit about the double team just to make a point. Daniels, while not being doubled, was strong enough to get a push and force the QB to move in the pocket laterally towards Carter, who cleaned up. He didn't get pushed out of plays, and that's a major difference.

[kmast000]

Everyone is so quick to discount one major difference between this season and last season when Andre Carter played very well...

We're missing Phillip Daniels opposite him. Having two small DEs that don't demand to be doubled doesn't free either of them up, and because they are both smaller DEs they get driven off the play.

The DT's are the ones that are supposed to be drawing the double teams inside. But I guess it could go either way.

[KDawg]

The DT's are the ones that are supposed to be drawing the double teams inside. But I guess it could go either way.

Against a 5 man line, anyone demanding a double team is a help. Again, though, Daniels really wasn't doubled much last year. The benefit to having him out there was his strength. He was able to move the pocket by not getting pushed too deep or outside of the play.

[BG]

This would have been the perfect year to have some young d-linemen to groom and rotate off the bench. Finding one player will not make a difference. We need depth.

The Giants are stellar because of their depth and ability to rotate constantly. We have decent backups in Golston and Evans.

That's it.

That's scary.

[alleycat]

we should use golston and montgomery. then trade griffin he's getting old. golston and montgomery together provide a good combination of strength and speed.

#1 When Griff is healthy he is one of the better lineman we have.

#2 He is not healthy all that often.( I think that is reasonable to say)

#3 Just curious...What do you figure we would get in trade...LOL

#4 Blache says his D is not a sack happy unit due to scheme.

#5 Our D is doing damn good.

#6 Spend your thoughts on O-line.They ain't terrible and some are very good...But I think if we are talkin bang for buck...Look to the O-line.

[PeterMP]

The DT's are the ones that are supposed to be drawing the double teams inside. But I guess it could go either way.

I think his point is that w/ two edge rushing DE's (two guys that loop to the QB and don't hold their position), that you actually leave the QB plenty of room to escape, essentially independent of what the DT's do.

With Daniels you didn't get much of a pass rush, but you got a guy that held his position. Coupled with DT's that don't get much pass rush, but also hold their position, when Carter did get there pretty cleanly, he got the sack because really the QB had no where to go (i.e. even if the QB stepped up Carter was able to follow and bring him down).

Now, the QB can step up and then start sliding to the otherside because Taylor (or Carter) has also looped and taken himself out of position.

[DCMONEY]

I think the Skins defense not just this season but in the past few have played the run pretty good. Thats the 1st priority to me. When you can't play the run, you can't play defense IMO. I think the Skins problem is that when they run a base set, they can't get any pressure. They don't even get decent pressure when they blitz to me. I think the Skins need to draft smoe young hungry D-linemen. In the upcoming draft, I don't care if its a tackle, DE or whatever. Anyone who can collapse the pocket and get pressure. Get young and get some depth.

[SonnyJ]

Really good DE's have more than one move (e.g. they do more than attack off the edges). They can bull rush, spin and etc. These guys appear to be MAYBE okay DE's when it comes to rushing the QB. Essentially, the samething can be said for the DT's (well maybe the DT's are worse than the DE's, but they aren't awful individually either).

The problem is that OTs can set against the Redskins DEs protecting the inside. With a lack of push from the middle, they know their QB can comfortably stay in the pocket without taking too deep of a drop. Thus, they can just ride the DEs past the QB. They really only need to protect against the inside move.

This makes the move repetoire almost useless. Bull rushes don't work because that is predicated on the OT being off-balance, which happens as a result of an error in footwork, which comes as a result of guessing outside or inside. Same thing with a spin. There has to be an element of being able to go outside or inside - the OTs are too good to not be able to go in either direction.

The DEs may not be absolute monsters, but they would be showing a lot better if there was some credible push up the middle. It hurts their blitzing, too. Teams just concentrate on forming a tight pocket, knowing there really isn't a player on the Redskins that can use a combo of burst and strength to consistently penetrate it.

[PlayAction]

I think the Skins defense not just this season but in the past few have played the run pretty good. Thats the 1st priority to me. When you can't play the run, you can't play defense IMO. I think the Skins problem is that when they run a base set, they can't get any pressure. They don't even get decent pressure when they blitz to me. I think the Skins need to draft smoe young hungry D-linemen. In the upcoming draft, I don't care if its a tackle, DE or whatever. Anyone who can collapse the pocket and get pressure. Get young and get some depth.

Skins actually have quite a few DEs on the roster or on IR. They are thin however at DT. Griffin, Golston and Montgomery are IT. Griffin was a great player but is 3 years past his prime and is at best a backup. He should be cut. Golston and Montgomery were 5th and 6th round picks with commensurate talent. They are serviceable and nice to have in rotation. As to the OP's original question - yes the Skins are aware they need a 3 technique DT. Vinny tried to get one in the draft - I'm guessing it was Trevor Laws picked one spot before Skins. However, with the amount of picks and contract given to Jason Taylor the Skins should have done more hunting for a DT.

While JT can't be faulted for being injured I can't see how he's worth 8 million to the team. If Skins could get more talent by using his cap money I think they might be better off admitting their mistake and just let him go.

[PlayAction]

#1 When Griff is healthy he is one of the better lineman we have. That's scary as I think he's no longer as good as needed when healthy.

#2 He is not healthy all that often.( I think that is reasonable to say)

#3 Just curious...What do you figure we would get in trade...LOL

#4 Blache says his D is not a sack happy unit due to scheme.

#5 Our D is doing damn good. Yes, in comparison to the Offense. But the Defense is regressing IMO. I don't know why Blache lets the team telegraph the blitz so much. They talk about Eli calling audibles to negate the blitz. But he only looks good because the Defense lets him know their intentions well in advance.

#6 Spend your thoughts on O-line.They ain't terrible and some are very good...But I think if we are talkin bang for buck...Look to the O-line.

This was the last year for the OL IMO. We knew the OL needed to be retooled (based upon decline from age alone). We also know that the OL was built for a run based offense not the WCO. Skins should work Chad Rinehart into the lineup (I'm hoping he can outplay one of the two guards). I'd like for the Skins to pick up a RT in the draft. It's time to part ways with Jansen's hefty contract. Heyer seems to be a good backup. I'm not sure whether Geisinger would be able to outplay Rabach. But I'd like a little bit more beef in the middle.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Our DEs aren't "bad" exactly. They just should not be paired together....and should not be paired with these particular tackles.

Andre Carter and/or Jason Taylor on a line with three big bodies who collapse the pocket would be a force. Andre Carter and/or Jason Taylor with two DTs who stand straight up while pass rushing and another speed end is utterly ineffective.

It's a badly constructed D-line at the moment, at least from a pass rushing perspective.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The DEs may not be absolute monsters, but they would be showing a lot better if there was some credible push up the middle. It hurts their blitzing, too. Teams just concentrate on forming a tight pocket, knowing there really isn't a player on the Redskins that can use a combo of burst and strength to consistently penetrate it.

The undiscosed issue about our pass rush is that Marcus Washington is the only LB on the roster who actually knows how to rush the passer, and he has been hurt. You can blitz all you want, but if your LBs and DBs run right into blockers and can't get away from them, you aren't going to do much. The only time blitzing works for us is when we get a free man. But Eli showed how a good QB beats a jailbreak blitz.

[phatboy41]

Our DE's are not bad, but they're not that good either. We could use someone with more of a bullrush along with a speed rush on the edge. Our line is small (aside from Anthony Montgomery) and our DT's need to be able to collapse the pocket. Our d-line as a whole is not getting the job done. We have to blitz all linebackers and d-line and a safety just to 'somewhat' generate pressure and even then we don't end up with sacks. That leaves us vulnerable to large screenplays in the secondary. We just can't get to the QB and we need to.

[KDawg]

I think his point is that w/ two edge rushing DE's (two guys that loop to the QB and don't hold their position), that you actually leave the QB plenty of room to escape, essentially independent of what the DT's do.

With Daniels you didn't get much of a pass rush, but you got a guy that held his position. Coupled with DT's that don't get much pass rush, but also hold their position, when Carter did get there pretty cleanly, he got the sack because really the QB had no where to go (i.e. even if the QB stepped up Carter was able to follow and bring him down).

Now, the QB can step up and then start sliding to the otherside because Taylor (or Carter) has also looped and taken himself out of position.

Bingo! Hit the nail on the head

Good post

[Dark Acre]

we should use golston and montgomery. then trade griffin he's getting old.

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Ugh. You admit Griffin's getting old; i.e., you want to get rid of him, but then you say trade him? To whom? For what? This is like all those posters who say, "oooh, we should trade down 5 slots and pick up several draft picks". Trade down with whom? For what? :2cents: